The Seven-Day Universe - A Response to @gavvet

in #religion7 years ago

"For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day."
- Exodus 20:11 -

A week ago, I read an article by @gavvet.

He raised the following very interesting and worthwhile question:

"Were the seven days of creation in Genesis seven twenty four hour periods?"

I think that question, as well as the other questions raised in @gavvet's article, are well worth bringing up, thinking deeply about, and discussing.

I've Re-Steemed his article in the interest of fostering a good Steemit dialog. I ask you to please pause and read @gavvet's article now, because the rest of my article is intended to be interactive with what he has said so far.

Created in mere days?

Created in mere days?
Photo courtesy of ayoub wardin and http://pixabay.com

@gavvet makes the following point:

"The age of enlightenment, modern science and all of its discoveries have vastly enriched or knowledge of the universe, its systems and processes and life in all of its diversity."

True enough. We enjoy a remarkable standard of living and a much expanded comprehension of the nature and the vast scope of the universe today than ever before. Most of these benefits can be attributed to advances in science and in the technologies which we have developed as a result of what we have learned.

I am personally grateful for the phenomenal advances in astronomical instrumentation that have occurred in my own lifetime. For example, ever since my childhood devouring of all the science fiction I could get my hands on, I have "known" that planets revolve around other star systems. However, it has only been in the last twenty years that space-borne telescopes and greatly improved earthbound observatories have been capable of actual observations verifying that "fact." Thanks to the Kepler Space Telescope and supporting research, we now have data confirming the existence of thousands of extra-solar planets.

Within the past year,

scientists have announced that the known universe contains, not the 100 to 500 billion galaxies previously estimated, but an order of magnitude more - now known to be between one and two trillion galaxies. These are advances in scientific knowledge that I can gladly applaud and deeply appreciate.

Created in mere days?

Created in mere days?
Photo courtesy of dpatdfci and http://pixabay.com

But, as @gavvet points out, we are sometimes gullible.

"We are so used to nativity scenes and other narratives that this clouds or perspective of what the scriptures actually say, even when we read them for ourselves."

His example of mistaken assumptions about the "three wise men and the baby Jesus" is an excellent illustration that ought to give us pause. Immersed in our culture, we all too often accept "what everyone knows" as truth without having personally examined and verified it to our own satisfaction.

Created in mere days?

Created in mere days?
Photo courtesy of Greg Rakozy and http://unsplash.com

I would like to echo and expand upon @gavvet's thesis.

Get more personal. Ask yourself, why do you believe what you believe?

It isn't just a medieval Mother Church that may have shackled your mind, my friend. In our modern day, we suffer just as greatly from a scientific priesthood as ever there was an ecclesiastical cabal seeking to dictate our beliefs.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. If you're going to bother to free your mind from the shackles of religious tradition, you'd better damn well do the same with political correctness, the military-medical-pharmaceutical-scientific-academic-industrial complex, and the media priesthood.

Face it,

you are surrounded by and immersed in a raging sea of False News. You are bombarded with it every day, and from every side. The falsehoods may not always be deliberate and malevolent, there may not always be an agenda, but no matter where deception and misdirection comes from, you'd better learn to recognize and filter it out somehow. Don't just swallow the lies and, when its far too late, discover that you've been "hooked."

Now it's my turn to provide an example.

Science is not God, although some insist on treating it as such. It is "a god" insofar as we allow ourselves to grant science a higher status then it deserves and permit it to become an unquestioned authority in our lives. Like any other lowercase 'g' "god," science is fallible. There is a definite scientific priesthood, living in the halls of academia, peering over their spectacles at us plebes, ridiculing anyone who questions their dogma.

In the realm of neuroscience,

there has been an accepted theory of how the brain recognizes faces. It was presumed, taught, and widely accepted that a unique face — for example, Jennifer Aniston — would cast an image on your retina, trigger a series of impulses along your optic nerve, go through a black-box process in your brain, and finally trigger a single neuron cell causing your brain to "light up" and recognize Jennifer Aniston. That cell was the "Jennifer Aniston" cell in your brain.

Jennifer Aniston

Jennifer Aniston
Photo courtesy of Chris Harte and http://flickr.com

But "scientific knowledge" is a constantly moving and changing target. There are alternate views based on actual observations and changing theories that continually replace "common knowledge" as the years pass. The entire history of science demonstrates this to be true.

Facial recognition theory is no exception.

Recent research has conclusively shown that the prevailing theory is simply wrong. There is not a "Jennifer Aniston" cell that lights up in your brain. In fact, there are a little more than 200 cells in your brain that, depending on the pattern in which they are firing at the moment, cause you to recognize Jennifer Aniston. Those same cells, firing in a different pattern, will cause you to recognize your spouse, or your Uncle Bob. You can read more about this in my recent article:

"Monkeying Around With Faces - How We Recognize Them"

My point is this:

The premise raised by @gavvet is absolutely true. We are all too prone to accept "what we know to be true" simply because we have been immersed in it, bombarded with it, grown up with it, heard it on TV or in school. However, this problem is not limited to the church, the bible, and religion.

You must think critically about everything.

There are priesthoods, traditions, and sacred cows in the world of science just as much, if not more so, than in the world of religion. While it's a good thing not to change your opinions and beliefs on a whim, flip-flopping with every new theory that comes along, it is completely unnecessary to discard a belief unless you have a really sound reason to do so.

I consider this just an introductory post.

In future posts, I hope to examine some more reasons to be thoughtfully cautious about allowing "scientific knowledge" to be dismissive about your religious beliefs.

For example, the notion that the earth is extremely old is primarily a theoretical construct with questionable evidence. We do not have historical records that go back to the presumed extent of the earth's age. There are some very interesting astronomical observations that throw current scientific theories about the age of the earth and the universe into question. I hope to present one in my next article in this series.

Stay tuned!


~FIN~


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it would seem to me a circular argument since by definition God is the creator of all things including time - when Jesus turned water into wine everyone remarked that the best wine was saved to the last. Now, it takes wine time to mature....

Excellent - it took just seconds to make six year old wine just like it took six days to make a 13.8 billion year old universe. The age of the thing created does not depend on how long it took to create it.

thanks Stan - so true...

While I'm not quite sure what you're contemplating here as a "circular argument," as it is said "fools rush in..." I will take a stab. ;)

We have no direct method of observing history. Literally everything we know about the past is based on extrapolation and logic.

If we take Genesis at face value, Adam was created as an adult. This certainly gave him an "appearance of age."

Was God being deceptive? Not at all.

Your example of the very best wine that Jesus made "on the spot" is a parallel one. Was Jesus being deceptive? Not at all.

It has, however, been a long time - as to how long, well, that's the debate, isn't it? - since the creation of the universe. Being humans made in the image of God, but not quite infinite, we are curious! Wanting to become more like God we desperately want to know these things!

And so, we do our best - observing, theorizing, thinking the hell out of things... Hoping to grow in our knowledge.

Is our reasoning circular? Maybe. Probably. In some cases, certainly. But we can't help ourselves, we must go on reasoning, at least until such a time as we can ask God directly; "Lord, how did you do that?"

I was agreeing with you, creatr, and I agree with your last paragraph too ;)

"History was written by the victors."
"Science is written by those who get government funding."
"Those who got funding pleased a government agent."

'nuff said.

Yes, yep, and no doubt.

Thanks for the pithy summary... ;)

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Once again, deep, deep sigh...

I'm a firm believer in Occam's Razor and look for the simplest explanation. What's a day to God, an eternal entity that has absolutely no use whatsoever for time? The word "day" was used to give us poor inferior humans a temporal framework. God created everything in six phases.

Science is merely an attempt to understand God and what He does. When they prove inadequate, then there clearly must be no God... otherwise the great minds of man would be able to explain Him. The human mind is completely inadequate and incapable of understanding God. We understand some of the laws physics, chemistry, etc.... Tools that God uses to do things.

It isn't necessary to understand God... to understand God is to be God- simply put... Ain't happening!!!

"...to understand God is to be God- simply put... Ain't happening!!!"

Brilliant and concise! Well stated!

However, as creatures made in his image, I think we can get a glimmering of understanding about him. Enough to be useful. It's the God-deniers that run into trouble, I think... Too big, too obvious to deny.

Like I said keep it simple. Here's how I see it. God created everything and created us in his image. Then he turned it over to us to manage. This is all on page 1 of the Bible... we made it all the way to page 3 before we started screwing it up!

"we made it all the way to page 3 before we started screwing it up!"

Hahahahahaha!!! :D

Tell me it ain't so...

It ain't... I think we only got to about Page 2! ;)

I think page 2 is just a rehash of page 1. The problem with religion is they have to complicate everything to convince people that only preachers can understand God's word (been going on since the beginning of time) 95% of the Bible is irrelevant... Shemuel begat Lemuel who begat Jehosephat who begat Larry the Blind piano player...

All you need to know is Love God, Love Jesus and Love other people more than you love yourself... case closed, have a nice day! The problem is you can't stretch that into an hour every Sunday to keep a positive cash flow!!!

Great thought provoking Post, My Friend.

Thanks, @awgbibb! :D

Interesting post.. The big question isnt the power or credibility of God - its in relation to what Moses was thinking when he wrote Genesis in the 6th century BCE.. was he parroting oral tradition (that also exists in other religions) or was God speaking to him directly as he later describes with the "burning bush"?

My personal opinion is that it was the latter... A more or less "straight" historical account.

This is not to say that there was no oral tradition prior to the writing of Genesis, but tradition is a mixed bag. I personally think that while the Genesis account may contain elements of oral tradition, and may have "literary" and "story" elements to it, the core of the presentation is historical.

Genesis is most definitely not apocalyptic in nature as are, for example, Isaiah and Revelation.

Good day my frriend! I have read @gavvet's piece already thanks to your resteem earlier today and was glad to find someone giving these important questions the opportunity for discussion. I am also very pleased that you have taken the time to write an initial response and look forward to seeing what both of you have to add in future!

I would however like to question why you yourself have such faith in scientific discoveries and breakthroughs in the field of astronomy, a subject which is clearly a passion of yours and could in itself be blinding you in regard to claims made by those whom you yourself I would imagine have little access to and measured, recorded and interpreted by instrumentation that I would also imagine your access to is limited.

I know you to be a very thoughtful and kind man from the discussions we have had in the past and I admit that my knowledge on many, many subjects, including this one is limited to say the least but I myself find it hard to believe that we as men and women can calculate the age of the earth any more than we can measure the distances to stars.

I can accept that there are men and women far smarter than myself and perhaps even orders of magnitude smarter :) and I can also accept that our current knowledge is built on the knowledge of those who came before but I still can not believe in my heart that we can tell how far away a light in the sky is because it is ever more slightly blue or ever more slightly red. My personal opinion is that we are allowing ourselves to be deceived and convinced that we are insignificant in the grand scheme.

I have a great respect for the scientific method but theoretical physics and observations from telescopes in space that we can't even observe do not garner my trust and confidence easily. I do respect your thoughts, opinions and personal observations and would be very pleased if you could convince me to reign in my skepticism!:)

Thanks again!

Hope your day is going well as always!

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