(STOP SCROLLING) - Can Your Selfishness Fix The Problems of the World? - (JOIN THE DISCUSSION)

in #philosophy6 years ago

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First I would like to prime this post by saying that the point of this is not to say that I am right, and this is just the way it is, and that everyone needs to get on board or be wrong. My hope is that this post will open up a discussion in the comments section, or in other posts that can move us closer to harmony in our interactions. So if you agree, cool. If you disagree, cool. Let’s talk about it.


I just ask that you read it all the way through before you decide what I'm trying to say. Thanks everyone. I'm looking forward to hearing your responses.


Everyone has ideas about what it means to do things for others or what it means to be selfless or selfish, but words fail here.


Is it Possible to Commit a Purely Selfless Act?

Here are my current thoughts on that:

We don't work that way. We simply wouldn't do it. We are selfish creatures. Right now you are probably thinking that you aren't or know someone who isn't selfish; you’re probably wrong.

You are probably thinking of some spiritual or community leaders you have heard accounts about or witnessed personally that have exhibited selflessness, but again you’re probably wrong. You might think that this is just simply my pessismism showing, but it is actually not a pessimistic view at all. Here is what I mean:

Drive to Survive Then Thrive

Humans act on motives driven by biological needs and intellectual desires. Without them we simply wouldn't act.(would we?) There would be no need to. So, with that said what is everyone's main concern? From the basest viewpoint it is the biological drive to survive, to continue living. Beyond that there is the general motive shared by all to feel good and to not feel bad.

To survive one needs air, water, food, and sleep. After these goals are met one wants more than to just survive. They want to thrive. They want to feel good and to avoid feeling bad. People go about this all types of ways based on their understanding of what it takes to acquire or defend from those feelings, and pursuing this can range in a person from very simple to bewilderingly complex.

When you add a person's beliefs into the mix, which are essentially that person's experiences and the way they thought of and felt about these in relation to themselve's and the world, you get any given individual. Any given Individual is selfish and goes through life seeking to satisfy themselves in one way or another. There is no escaping it. It is impossible for someone to act for another, beyond their motivation in every way: selfless.

There are many who will disagree with this, but most will just reject the idea before examining it because they see the idea as ugly or not fitting into their beliefs. However, it is not an ugly image, but a more correct version of reality (matter of opinion? Maybe).

There are examples of people who have done great things for people at their own expense, but this is not selflessness. There is nothing you can give or do for someone that is selfless, because in the end whatever you do was done for YOU, to fulfill some desire that YOU had.

It can be just because you don't like to see someone suffer or it can be some religious conviction that YOU hold. No matter how much of a disadvantage this act puts you at while helping another it isn't selfless, because you were acting from YOUR beliefs or feelings about the situation. In the end you felt a certain something about the situation and your actions were to resolve this feeling inside YOURSELF. Really look at this through honest introspection. I think you will find it to be true.
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So What?

You might be thinking what is the purpose of this contemplation? Is it to point out simply that we are mean selfish people. No, there is no need to label this inherent selfishness as an undesirable thing within the self to try and extinguish.

This wouldn't be possible anyway. I am simply saying that this is how we operate, and suggesting that we reorganize how we view ourselves and this selfishness in the world. I say we remain selfish, but we expand our idea of self.

What the Hell Are You Talking About


Expanding your idea of self isn't really a strange idea at all. We do it all the time in a sense. For sports lovers it is as simple as their favorite team. When someone has a favorite team that becomes a part of who they are. They identify with that, and will defend that team the same way they would if someone said something cross about them.
This is what I mean by expand the sense of self. We protect the things that we identify with in about the same way we protect ourselves.

Your circle of selfishness first holds you then those closest to you (friends and family for many). You will look out for those people, to a degree, the same way you would yourself. As your life continues relationships grow, you acquire skills, join organizations, refine your identity, and so much more you will begin to notice that other things creep into your “sense of self”.

For instance, if you are an artist then you want good things to happen to artists as a whole, and you will protect “artists well being” or place in the world the same you would your own self. So we grow ourselves from single pieces to “Transcend and Include” bits of our experience and self to find out that we were never separate from it all other than in our minds. Now we are looking out for ourselves, family, friends, and sub-cultures that we belong to.

I'm going to drop a few lines of a song I wrote that just rings so true when I think about the disruption caused by drawing lines.

All your thoughts of me and mine
Have got you living in fear,
But without the line that an I draws
The perception becomes so clear.
There is no math in the world.
You think you're adding to sums.
Well, addition was never a thing
Until division was done.

So we have expanded our sense of self to include family, friends, and some of the subcultures that we “belong” to. We have to dissolve our programmed patriotism and all of these imaginary territorial boundaries. For Example, move from the statement “I am a Texan” to “I am an American” and then on to “I am a citizen of Earth”. We need to push toward the most inclusive view possible until our sense of self contains everyone and everything in existence. That is how we get everyone looking out for each other.

Until we all learn to expand our idea of self to include everyone and everything in existence then we will continue to have all of the problems inherent in an us versus them scenario


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Maybe Take a Step Back

But maybe a precursor to this “expanding of self” is to first learn to love yourself. I wonder if someone who hates their self expanded their sense of self to include all if that might not be destructive. People who don’t like themselves create turbulence and misery in everything they touch. So maybe that is something to consider as well.

One has to know their self before they can love their self, and that might be one of the biggest problems we face as a whole.

My People

Let’s make all people our people. When people say “my people” that can mean a lot of different things. Most often I hear it used to talk about race. When I think about it I think about those most like me. For me “my people” are the creatives and original thinkers.

I say my people because when I am around these types of people it seems that a larger part of my personality becomes alive, I “become” more myself.” Why? Most likely because we have loads of shared interests and experiences that aren’t allowed to be expressed in other settings with other individuals.

The more I study that thought, “My People” it is funny. If the basis for my people is commonality then all people should be my people or your people, our people. If we don't think we have something in common with every single person it is because we are choosing to focus on what is different and ignore what is the same for one reason or another.

We find our common ground. We are life. We are struggling under the same conditions. We need the same things to survive. We all suffer the same pains of loss.

The battle we’re fighting isn’t between ourselves; it’s ignorance that’s the enemy

If we don’t stop drawing lines and saying us versus them instead of saying us against the hardships of existence then our problems will continue to grow exponentially.

So How Do We Expand

So how do we expand our sense of self to include everyone and everything? We reach out, and explore concepts that we thought were already decided and closed. Through introspection we can really examine our “programming” and through this awareness we make the powers of this programming less potent. We need to examine our relationship with this environment and the things in it.

Think about all the things that you identify with. Really inspect them and try to find when and where you attached that concept to yourself. Explore who you think you are. Focus on the way that you feel about those concepts in regards to yourself. Now take those feelings and those concepts and let it radiate out until you can start to feel yourself looking out for groups and individuals outside your current sense of identity.

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Go out and listen to someone you would have never noticed before. See yourself in them. If you can not find common ground or beauty in every person and situation then maybe it is time to tweak your perception. Borrow a new lens

Some beauty you might have to look harder for but that doesn't make it any less beautiful, only less familiar.
If you see yourself in the face of every stranger then there are no strangers.

I realize that this post is a little unorganized, but I have been awake for way too long. So I hope you will let it slide this time ;)

Like I said earlier this post is about starting a conversation, so I hope you will share your thoughts, and maybe we can make a few steps in a better direction.....but really....let me know what you think, because I have been having this conversation with myself all night which feels a bit like only owning one book ever. So just let me take a look at your pages....just a little peak



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I like the idea of altruistic egoism: essentially that it benefits me to improve things for others. I guess that's either not expanding my notion of self or expanding it to encompass the world.

I think that is another route to take, another lens for observation. I like the concept "altruistic egoism" makes you want to find the fallacy, yet the more I think about it, the more I agree.

Thanks for the input @eturnerx

Talk about the right person to show up on an altruistic egoism comment. @meno over here is really putting that into practice with @helpie and everything he is doing. He is lifting everyone up around him.

What is presented in this post is more like a half glass full version of psychological egoism.

Like @meno said it is another lens to wear. It is another way to interpret relationships and the world around you.

I think what is important in the end is that the goal is better interaction. More people winning.

Yes @art-mess this is why you and me resonate, I pretty much see the world thru this less. The expansion of the self is key towards ethical-moral progress. To wake up to the fact that the idea of "my people" can be as big as I want it to be is to evolve with a positive tweak outdated definitions of tribalism.

I gave this a resteem too, this is a powerful message and you've presented it brilliantly.

Thanks @meno I decided to make a post about this when I was listening to you and @clayboyn the other day. I made a comment about expanding the self in the chat and thought it would be good to elaborate on the idea in a post. Thanks for the re-steem brother.

I will put in a word with the @clayboyn it would be cool to hear you guys elaborate on this. And you are very well spoken too, which is key to be on the radio.

It could happen, I plan to keep the showing going indefinitely : )

I could be down for that. It would be cool to get people involved in the conversation that way. Just let me know some time if you have a free slot and want to dive into that topic. Thanks for the re-steem

Great post. Your writing echoes my thoughts almost entirely. Although you write that the actions of a selfless person are actually selflish you are in fact strictly speaking correct, however your definition is perhaps a little too rigid for our practical world.

We must always define a so called selfless act exactly that in order to bring more good will into the world. Imagine if a so called selfless act was frowned upon because it was perceived as selfish! The world would indeed be a horrible place if that was the case. I think we need to bend the rules a little here, don't you?

I'm glad you bring up these great points @kimwainwright

Thank you. As far as the hard push toward the language of selfishness, yes it is rigid, and maybe someone could say that I'm rambling on about a word choice.....

However, it seems to me, what we refer to as selfishness is akin to a "program" that is being misused because of divisions that we are placing on the totality of our experience and relationship with our surroundings.

I think in some ways, starting from the acceptance of selfishness builds what might be a better framework for inclusion. We protect ours fiercely. Maybe there is a better way to present that and paint the same picture.

The main goal is to move from looking out for ourselves, like we start out doing, and continue to expand our sphere of self until we are effortlessly looking out for the well being of others using the "coding" already running the program "selfishness" so to speak.

Yes @kimwainwright the intention is not to label good acts in a negative manner. I would be interested to read what you might add to that. Thank you for getting involved in the conversation! :)

Didn't get all the way through as it sounded like someone who has not experienced a love of their child. That is where selfless acts exist.

Hi @Novacain Thanks For Joining The Conversation

How does talking about looking out for all of existence sound.......

like someone who has not experienced a love of their child
?

I think maybe you just didn't make it past the things that were negative in appearance. Perhaps that is my fault in presentation.

It isn't that people can't and shouldn't make sacrifices or care for others. I'm saying that the desire to do these things comes form your feelings, to resolve tension, to quench some thirst within yourself.
It isn't that selfishness is a bad thing. It isn't that we are bad people.

We can do things that put us at great disadvantage for the benefit of another person but you are doing so for the way that you feel.

What I suggest toward the middle to end is that when we do something that is considered selfless that it is actually just an expansion of your sense of self.

You're correct. I do not have any children, but I have loved deeply before. I'm just saying that, in a way, your love for your child is an extension of your sense of self. I imagine motherhood is possibly the best example of what I'm talking about.

We move from ourselves to include those closest to us, and then keep expanding until our realm of care includes all things. I'm basically saying that selfishness is a "program" that is being misused ............. well anyway I hope you will give the post a second chance and read it to the end at another time. Thanks for stopping by.

Eric Fromm in The Art of Loving lays out the stages toward selllessness in ones life if they follow the natural order of relationships. Allow me to suggest it may be required reading in your case.

. I do not have any children, but I have loved deeply before

There is nothing comparable to the bond of child and parent.

Sorry for the delayed response @novacadian.

I'm not sure what you are trying to suggest about me that The Art of Loving should be a required reading.. lol ;)

There is nothing comparable to the bond of child and parent.

I wasn't trying to compare anything to the bond of parent and child. I was just making the statement that while I haven't experienced that I am not lacking in love. Just dropping a frame of reference.

I think our disagreement is more one of word choice. It seems that you are not liking my use of selfishness to describe these acts. So maybe it would be more productive for me to ask what it is you mean when you say selflessness..

When I say selfishness I am simply referring to looking out for the well being of our own, whether that be ourselves, loved ones, or identifying subcultures. The point is to expand that idea until noone and nothing falls outside of that circle.

Hope your having a great day. :)

I'm not sure what you are trying to suggest about me that The Art of Loving should be a required reading.. lol

Because it answers your original question soo eloquently. If you get a chance to read it (it is a fairly small read) then call me back with a reply and we can take it from there.

I don't have any disagreements with what you've written here. I don't know if I could write about this subject this well, I find these deep discussions more difficult to write about than to talk about. Some of my thoughts just don't translate to the written word very well.

Thanks @amberyooper I feel slightly more organized when writing. I think more interesting concepts come up when these things are talked about freely though. I have a lot more fun when intertwined in another person's views in real time conversation.

I just wish you could bookmark thoughts as they arise. Can someone please make a bot for that?

That is what I like about writing. Sometimes conversation can take you off in another direction before an important point is made.

You have been upvoted by the @sndbox-alpha! Our curation team is currently formed by @anomadsoul, @GuyFawkes4-20, @martibis and @fingersik. We are seeking posts of the highest quality and we deem your endeavour as one of them. If you want to get to know more, feel free to check our blog.

This is a courtesy of @GuyFawkes4-20

amazing pictures

Yes they are. Not my photos, but they are all linked back to their source.

Really nice ideas here! Selfishness as a way to promote the good in the world and of course ourselves. I saw your open mic act as well talent all around artmess. Keep up the great work.

Thank you so much @zeitlini

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