Vegans say Animal Fats and Animal Protein kills us, Low carb and Keto Advocates say the opposite. Who is Right?

in #life7 years ago (edited)

This is a seriously confusing and troubling issue for me and I have studied nutrition for well over 20 years. I have read every book you can imagine on nutrition from books on Banting, the first known implementation of the Ketogenic Diet, to books written by Dr Ornish on the Vegan diet and Reversing Heart Disease. Also have read Garry Taubes Books and many others on nutrition. I have watched endless documentaries about food and nutrition over the years and since the 90's have experimented with different diet protocols and have seen diet fads come and go. Every one of these diets if you look hard enough have very strong and valid points.

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Our Old Food Pyramid and Dietary Guidelines. Notice how Many Servings of Grains.

It seems that the one thing we are starting to agree on, is the fact that the root of many of today's health problems and diseases is stemming from a metabolic disorder known as insulin resistance or metabolic syndrome. The problem is that no one can come to the conclusion as to what is causing it because they all contradict each other.

If you talk to Dr Jason Fung, a Toronto Dr and a huge Advocate of Intermittent fasting, he says that insulin itself is the cause of insulin resistance from eating too often and the pancreas constantly releasing insulin into our blood stream, we eventually build a resistance to the hormone like we would if we drink coffee all the time or alcohol or drugs. His theory is that insulin itself damages the receptors in muscle cells and then in turn this causes resistance to the hormone where more and more is needed to move the glucose into the cell. So his idea is that the more often you eat, carbohydrates especially which trigger a bigger response of insulin, the faster you will damage these receptors and become resistant, which in turn leads to metabolic syndrome and eventually type 2 diabetes which seems to be the gateway for all kinds of diseases and health problems.
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Keto Food Pyramid Notice no Grains or Carbs Basically.
If you Talk to Garry Taubes or Dr Peter Attia or any of the Keto/LCHF diet Advocates, they agree with fasting for the most part and their theory is that carbohydrates are the root of all evil and the root off all diseases because humans run more efficiently on lipids than on glucose. Meaning that Eating no carbohydrates except maybe in the form of some fibrous veggies and keeping it under 50g per day is optimal. They say that eating butter, cheese, heavy cream, bacon, meat and saturated fat is of no concern when the body is in ketosis and using ketones converted from fat for fuel. The funny thing is that I have seen blood work from people following strict keto diets over the years and some have incredibly perfect blood work and metabolic markers and blood work, while others where terrible. Genetics play a huge role on how you respond to the diet, for the most part majority has been positive weight loss and improved blood work.

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Vegan Food Pyramid, Notice the Grains, there is a lot of other versions of Vegan Diets that look nothing like this also, with no processed foods or breads.

According to Dr Dean Ornish and many other Vegan Diet Advocates, it is saturated animal fat that causes the receptors to become clogged with fat and not responsive to the hormone insulin. Also equally alarming is the fact that they say that through the Mtor Path way and the production of IGF-1 that the amino acid leucine when it is derived from animal and not plant source protein seems to have carcinogenic properties. If you go into researching abstracts and studies you can actually find studies with evidence on some of these points.

With out getting to technical and confusing I would like to start a healthy discussion to see what we can come up with together. Honestly guys this is serious stuff and our health is really precious, we can not help any one or do anything for any one if we are laid up in a hospital bed with cancer or a heart attack. Since I hit the age of 35 I have been researching more than ever on the perfect diet.

The risk of heart disease runs extremely high in my family along with cancer. I am willing to make any diet adjustment in order to delay any of those diseases that seem to have a very high correlation with diet. For now I have combined what I think are the most valid points of each diet and taking a little from each. I do intermittent fasting, I eat 2 meals per day, first one is a shake at 2pm loaded with plants, vegetables, organic grass fed protein powder and organic coconut oil with flax and Chia Seeds. This meal is all plant based, at 8pm I have dinner and it usually contains more plants and vegetables with a protein source from fish,chicken or eggs.

I eat a lot less now that I am more concerned about longevity and not bodybuilding or fitness, I do 1-2 hours of exercise per day, and try to get outside for at least 30 minutes for fresh air and a walk. For now I feel pretty good about this with everything I have studied through out the years. There is a movie on Netflix that is called In Defense of Food, that had a great punchline that stuck with me and my eating style. Eat Real Food like our Ancestors ate, Mostly Plants, not too much. I know it is a long winded post but this pretty important stuff, would love to hear all of your ideas and thoughts.

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Great post, and I agree it's an important topic. As far as genetics go, I am of the Bruce Lipton camp. Epigenetics is what makes sense to me.
I am vegetarian. I do eat honey and sometimes goat cheese from the farmers' market. Otherwise, I would be vegan. This way of living happened to me. I developed a repulsion to meat around 4 years ago. My higher self was telling me something. I do cook meat for my dogs (just posted my dog food recipe) and my children who choose not to be vegetarian at this point in their lives.

My carbs come from fruits, veggies and sometimes whole grains. I juice daily. I usually do not eat after 2 or 3PM, so intermittent fasting is part of my lifestyle. I avoid processed foods. I feel great, so this works for me.

I have come to learn that what we put into our bodies matters, a lot! Junk food is insidious in that it will not kill you or cause you immediate noticeable damage, and that is why so many people partake in it. But, it will eventually have its consequences on your body and mind. Food that has been prepared with ingredients that have been genetically modified, sprayed with toxins, artificially colored and flavored, and caused suffering to humans and or animals is not good. How can it be? The energy behind it is bad. So, when people eat, they would do themselves and the planet a huge favor by truly thinking about what they're eating, where it came from and how it was made. "Garbage in, garbage out," so the saying goes.

My favorite cookbook for at least a year now is "Eating Clean" by Aime Valpone. Are you familiar with it? To me, that book sings a healthy, high-vibe diet and way of living.
Thank you for your thoughtful post. It's a topic near and dear to me.

I have not read Eating Clean but I just wrote it down to read next. I need to research also more on epigenetics. So far for me I feel like I am going in the right path with the implementation of a lot more plants and veggies and reducing my meat and animal protein down to one serving and the protein powder. I still train with weights quite a bit and need to do deeper research on plant protein. I am not ruling out going Vegetarian or even full Vegan in the Future. I do have a good amount of research pointing to animal protein not being the best choice long term. I use local honey quite a bit too in my recipes in place of sugar, also love the taste it gives to foods over sugar.

I think you will like the book. The author formerly worked for the NBA in a finance-type position. She became extremely ill and wasted years going from doctor to doctor. In the end, food was her medicine. Her story and recipes are excellent.

Bruce Lipton has written a lot about epigenetics. Fascinating work, and it's what we should have learned in school. Dr. Joe Dispenza has also written on the topic. He, too, is fascinating to listen to.

Sounds like you know exactly what you're doing! Plant protein is superior. Animal protein causes cancer. You will find plenty of information about this. Nutritonfacts.org is a wealth of information.

Have you seen all the vegan bodybuilders on Youtube? There are some great testimonies out there!

Genetics plays a massive role. Epigenetics is really important too. http://dadamo.com/ The Blood type diet was one of the first books I read on diet and still after everything I have tried, this one makes the most sense.

That is very interesting, I must say I have never gone full Vegan but it says that is the best diet for my blood type which is A+.

So is mine. Although I haven't really done that either. For now I am using lots of coconut oil and trying ketones out. I think the main trick is fasting. Everything else is dependent on your blood type and genetics.

As far as low carb goes, it may not be the healthiest option, but it has kept the weight off of me for years now. I was getting heavy around 40 and decided I wasn't going to have the typical middle-age beer belly. As soon as I switched to low carbs (after reading Taubes's book), the weight came off and I got back into my old college years pants, and I haven't gained much weight since.

Now, my arteries may be clogging and my cardiovascular not doing as well as it would if I was eating less animal fats, but I look fit and feel fit. That's what's important to me and is why I plan to stay on low carbs, paleo-type diet.

Low Carb has always worked best for me too, I blow up like a balloon even on 200 grams of carbs per day. Genetically I was a chubby kid since I was born. It seems that plays a huge role in the long run. I have a friend my age that as a kid he used to eat a gallon of ice cream a day most days and he walked around bellow 7% bodyfat. At age 40 he still is the same way. The part that scares me about meat is some of the studies on red meat and also the fact that there is so many chemicals in everything. I am a really positive person but it gets frustrating the deeper you dig to find the answer. So far I think that eating a lot less is universally accepted as a btter choice for longevity and disease preventive.

I try to stay away from the red meat as a mitigating factor for eating more meat. Mainly just fish, chicken, and pork.

Those seem to be the better choices for protein along with organic eggs which I also do from time to time. Calorie reduction for me is down to 1600-1800 calories per day to maintain 200 lbs currently. I would not mind reducing even lower the calories to get a bit leaner. I would feel a lot better and healthier. Just have to put in a bit of cardio and go totally keto for a while.

I dont belive either are right as we need to eat for our genetics, our goals and also our psychology. Sticking on one sticking diet is not going to be very enjoyable and its why most don't succeed.

The research says that the only diet that works is the one that you stick that you consume less calories than your burn.

Thanks for your post. Your last paragraph is spot on.

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