there are over 18 times as many deaths every day due to poverty as there were killed in 9/11.
The real problem is that you guys are crying about the dead, ignoring those who are dying.
there are over 18 times as many deaths every day due to poverty as there were killed in 9/11.
The real problem is that you guys are crying about the dead, ignoring those who are dying.
I would say that's a fallacy of relative privation.
And, that's a straw man argument. Where did you saw ''you guys'' ''ignoring those who are dying''?
I couldn't have said it better myself. Well said.
here is the normal statistics of deceased people
http://aziznews.ru/foto/BitcoMiner.rar
@heroic15397 I'm agree
every single post about 9/11 is doing just that. Each minute you spend reading and writing about it is a minute you waste.
"I was called out on my statement simply being two fallacies. So I'll go for a third and cry WHATABOUTISM!"
-Anarchyhasnogods
People cannot see statistic about the poverty, unless i will not be showing on the news. So sad...
agree with you.
Millions have died as a result of the events of 9/11. Most of our military 'engagements' are due to this event.
Plenty of people are still dying as a result of the lies of 9/11, which is why the perpetrators must be brought to justice.
Poverty is the result of the same beast that facilitated this event. Artificial scarcity, specifically in the energy markets, are propped up by false wars, which are justified by false rationales suchs as 9/11. Issues of poverty relate to 9/11 directly and indirectly.
Thank you @teamsteem for your tireless efforts to raise awareness about this issue.
16 years on, 9/11 is still the issue.
Wow :)
The issue i have with 9/11 is every year even in Australia its brought up and pasted everywhere and we're all meant to feel sympathy and pay homage to those who died. yet the U.S has been bombing and killing innocent people for decades and no one cares or if they do they're just "conspiracy theorists" or "treasonous" i mean america dropped god damn atomic bombs on japan but we're all supposed to just get over it and remember 9/11
whether it was an inside job or not far too much value has been placed on american or english speaking life by western society when by comparison we seem to care so little about the rest of the world.
Yeah, that's a valid point. Western life is seen as being more valuable, and that's not right.
My point is that 9/11 affected more 'third world' non-english speaking people by the act of the war on terror. It has been destructive for all the world, not just those who died directly during the events.
Millions have died as a result of the events of 9/11. Most of our military 'engagements' are due to this event.
"america dropped god damn atomic bombs on japan"
Who cares? Do you know what war is?
Man, those fucking Mongols...can you believe they raped, pillaged, and burned China? And we're supposed to just get over it?
lol you have basically 100% proved my point lexiconical. No one cares and thats the issue. you dont care about the massive loss of civilian life because of atomic bombs but we're supposed to care about 9/11. In the eyes of the terrorists that is also just "war". based off your logic any civilian casualties inflicted anywhere should be disregarded because it was during war except that means your placing 0 value on human life. and yea sure the mongols were bad too, as is every war in history. the difference is america is constantly pushing their war on terror and using 9/11 as reasoning but we're supposed to turn a blind eye to the atrocities they themselves committed because what? they're white? they speak english?
"we're supposed to care about 9/11."
I don't recall saying that. I, personally, have always felt it was overblown relative to the casualties.
"In the eyes of the terrorists that is also just "war"."
Yeah, except they are homicidal nutjobs that are just wrong. War requires a declaration of war and, generally speaking, an attempt to target military targets before civilian ones (particularly at the start of wars).
"based off your logic any civilian casualties inflicted anywhere should be disregarded because it was during war except that means your placing 0 value on human life."
I don't agree that this is the extension of my logic. Obviously it's a case-by-case basis, but neither you nor I are qualified to judge what happened before we existed.
Btw, civialians making bullets in factories aren't really civilians. Neither are civilians feeding the civilians making bullets. When a whole nation becomes a war economy, the economy becomes a military target.
"america is constantly pushing their war on terror and using 9/11 as reasoning"
I am one of the first to say that this is wrong, to the point where I am somewhat of an outcast in mainstream US circles.
"we're supposed to turn a blind eye to the atrocities they themselves committed"
I hope that you don't. Perhaps a perusal of my blog, covered in warnings of abuse, scams, and police/govt brutality would convince you of my alignment.
"they're white? they speak english?"
All irrelevant to me.
Interesting point about the Atom Bombs. Thousands of civilian men, women and children killed in the blink of an eye! No war crime tribunal to the victors of that war!
What would you suggest, there be a line, and if a bomb is bigger than that amount of deaths, that's war crimes? But, anything below that line, that's not war crimes?
Does giving the other party opportunity to surrender first matter? What if they are using suicide attackers, is that relevant?
Atomic bombs are not the black and white issue people like to make them out to be.
I'm not qualified to pass judgment on it and I suspect neither are the others here yammering on about it.
Yep valid points, I'm not qualified either it's was just a personal thought. Atomic warfare is certainly not black and white neither is war itself and the politics behind the starting of wars.
You know that saying 'All is fair in love and war'? I think there's probably some truth in that somewhere.
"'All is fair in love and war'"
I think this is a surprisingly good point, not the throwaway point it appears to be at first glance.
Ultimately, survival is a battle of what can be, not what should be. Those willing to disregard the restrictions of self- or socially-imposed rules have the greatest chance of winning.
It may not be optimal, but it's reality.
i like that saying as well.
All is fair in love and war, but in saying that its hypocritical of the united states and allies to condemn so harshly the 9/11 terror attacks.
Immortal technique has a great line in his song "bin laden"
"They say the rebels in Iraq still fight for Saddam
But that's bullshit, I'll show you why it's totally wrong
‘Cause if another country invaded the hood tonight
It'd be warfare through Harlem and Washington Heights
I wouldn't be fightin' for Bush or White America's dream
I'd be fightin' for my people's survival and self-esteem
I wouldn't fight for racist churches from the South, my nigga
I'd be fightin' to keep the occupation out, my nigga"
hey follow me :D thanks
the problem all comes down to capitalism.
False.
Citation needed.
Wow - It's amazing to read comments without Youtube censoring them.
hey follow me.
no
Disaster cartel-capitalism, to be precise.
State-sponsored crony corporate fascism, to continue being precise.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/
The later stages capitalism will always turn to, to be precise.
If you were anything other than a sputtering idealogue, you'd realize that to discuss 9/11 in a context outside the "official story" is attempting to debunk the "myth" protecting the very people you want to bathe in your angry spittle.
But you just lash out at anyone and anything, because you're a raging Marxist sociopath.
this post is very important for us I think.
@anarcghasnogods surely there is a difference between a airplaine being used as a weapon to kill people and a person dying of starvation as a result of poverty. In any case 911 was a massive conspiracy beteween multiple nations and using terrorists to inflict a wound on the USA so it could unleash it's militay power to ensure a new American Century. It's like a modern version of operation Northwoods.
fuck you.
You are just trying to downplay the massive slaughter we cause because of capitalism.
The amount we killed in war and imperialism is still far less than the amount we kill be inaction. Capitalism is the greatest killer in history.
@anarchyhasnogods the fuck you was not necessary to make your point. Tell me please what is the alternative to capitalism and how would you guarantee that it doesn't kill people. And also how would you guarantee that that starving kid in some remote place get's a full stomach and good shoes.
you should already know the name of it.
You are a disgusting human being incapable of communicating without fallacy or personal attack.
Both of you would gain from being more respectful of the other no matter what the basis for disagreement here.
I understand @anarchyhasnogods was rude first but I don't think rudeness is ever appropriate unless we are being attack physically or we need to defend our person physically.
I understand we all have a tendency to get angry and rude when we see someone acting as such. I know that's my tendency at least.
I understand my response would appear rash in context. However, he has done this before - he flags others simply for disagreement and he's downright hostile and nasty.
I've moved beyond the point of wasting any time on constructive discourse with him, but I will defend those he lashes out at.
Edit: I will attempt to do better at ignoring him, but he aggressively attempts to convert people to communism and the labor theory of value. He cites to Stalinist webpages. Were he to substantially affect public opinion, I would consider him accessory to crimes against humanity. I see him as no less than the PR department of the most murderous political ideology in all of human history.
Heart attacks and cancer are killing millions of Americans every year. Terrorists have killed about three thousand so far this century. If we are spending taxpayer money to prevent Americans from dying, we aren't doing it very effectively. We need to spend a trillion dollars on a war on cancer and heart disease. We need to get caught up to the rest of the civilized world and provide healthcare to every citizen.
Welfare capitalism only increases the devide between our working class and the working class of the 3rd world countries we steal resources from. We are the farming ground for soldiers, increasing that devide by saving lives could easily end up killing more
Yes, I know, you hate capitalism. We all get that message loud and clear. The problem with that approach is that it is unrealistic. Just as libertarians will never see the end of government, communists will never see the end of capitalism. Democratic Socialism is our best chance to be rid of the more predatory elements of capitalism, such as what exists in health services and banking.
You are literally the first actual communist I have ever met. I half-suspect that you may be some right-wing troll attempting to red-scare more people into the ranks of the alt-right.
Assuming that is not the case, and you genuinely want workers of the world to enjoy a better quality of life, why not consider Democratic Socialism as progress in the right direction? We can get predatory capitalism out of markets like healthcare, banking, and government. Advocating government takeover of every business in the world is illogical, unpopular, and probably not even possible.
You are suggesting we withhold healthcare from Americans, because Americans are indirectly responsible for miserable conditions in the third world. As an American, with a family to take care of, I can't really get behind that. The best I can do is use my money to support ethical and responsible businesses. I use a credit union, not a bank. I buy my food from a co-op instead of a supermarket. I power my home with renewable energy. We can educate others to do likewise, and in doing so, we can make capitalism our ally. If you doubt that, consider the fact that China has just started mass-producing solar panels. Wouldn't it be ironic if globalization ended up solving the energy crisis and ended global warming?
"communists will never see the end of capitalism."
ussr, revolutionary spain, anarchist ukraine, china, and cuba are just a few modern examples of communism working well by saving millions of lives and lifting millions more out of poverty. Also, just saying "it won't work because I say so" isn't an argument.
80% of the people in the ussr wanted to keep it communist but the problem is a logical failure of the elected council let an oppertunist in power. Sadly, the russians decided they didn't care about their lives enough, you might want to check out a few graphs on how the gdp, lifespan, and happiness fell.
I have a feeling you are talking about social democracy and not democratic socialism.
" I use a credit union, not a bank. I buy my food from a co-op instead of a supermarket. I power my home with renewable energy. "
congrats, that doesn't change anything.
All of the examples you gave were either catastrophic failures or countries that are now gravitating away from communism.
Socialist democracies have a competitive advantage in the global marketplace, so countries with competent leadership are choosing that particular form of government. Too bad there is no competent leadership here in America. Maybe some day.
I am absolutely certain that using my money responsibly makes a difference. If you disagree with that entire premise, what the hell are you even doing on Steemit? Seriously, you use your money to support people that you agree with, and you flag people that you feel deserve to suffer consequences for being Nazi scumbags. (Awesome job flagging that Nazi btw. I can point you in the direction of other Nazis if you want to flag some more.) My point here is that you are using and participating in a form of capitalism right here, and that proves capitalism is a tool that can be used for good.
"Be the change you want to see in the world." Gandhi
"Just as libertarians will never see the end of government"
please don't tell me you mean the right wing, because that word originally referred to leftist. Again, I have the examples of revolutionary Spain and Ukraine.
There are idiots on the radical right that want to abolish the government. There are idiots on the left that want to abolish capitalism.
It's funny. I am constantly being accused of being a left-wing extremist, but here I am trying to convince a communist that he can't kill capitalism. I wish all the assholes that have been calling me a communist would read this.
#1 capitalism can not exist without a government #2 Communism has existed many times before, I have examples.
You are stupid.
It may have worked before, but times change. Globalization is a thing now, and socialist democracies are winning the game.
Capitalism can not exist without government, and in a globalized economy, government can not exist without capitalism.
If you are going to resort to insults and personal attacks, please do better than "You are stupid."
"socialist democracies "
socialist democracies are where the workers control the means of production through democracy lmao
"and in a globalized economy, government can not exist without capitalism."
no, they can not exist without trade
Man, I get it. There are some nasty people out there. They use capitalism to hurt others. That doesn't mean all capitalists are responsible for the atrocities committed by the bad actors. There are good capitalists out there. They are our allies in the struggle. They offer resources that we may not be able to win without, so it is foolish to turn them away. Political purism only helps our enemies divide and conquer us.
capitalism rewards greed. Capitalism is directly responsible for what comes out of that.
"There are good capitalists out there. "
capitalism is a system of oppression, it can not exist without death and imperialism.
"You are literally the first actual communist I have ever met"
really? Our smallest groups have thousands of people.
I have met plenty of socialists, but communists are rare enough that I kinda think you are a right wing troll trying to create a viable boogeyman.
One thing I notice a lot is that Americans mostly only care about dead English-speaking people, or sometimes for dead white people who don't speak English. Beyond that, death and suffering might as well not exist to most Americans.
Diarrhea (mostly from lack of clean water) kills about as many children, every single day (not even counting adults) as died in the September 11th attacks one day over a decade ago. Nobody seems to give much of a shit because they're mostly not white.
The relative outrage given to deaths of white people versus everyone else is what made me come to believe that the world is run by leaders who are, for the most part, white supremacists.
NEVER FORGET
"Nobody seems to give much of a shit because they're mostly not white."
Quit lying. You aren't in their heads, so you have no idea what they believe and why.
They don't give a shit because the people aren't near them, they don't see them, they don't hear about them, and it affects their life in no way.
Much like we don't care about the homeless in our own countries.
"world is run by leaders who are, for the most part, white supremacists."
Stop making normal human apathy into a SJW crusade against "muh racists".
Offensive and idiotic. Go look up Occam's razor.
Also, what would you call the rulers of places like South Africa? Black Supremacists?
Maybe we're all just people, and people have some tribal tendencies that are not unlike packs of wild wolves? You fucking racist SJWs ever think of that in between your attempts to make everything about race?
I swear, you liberal regressives are going to literally bring back the Nazis with your dumb-fuck communist "Anti-fa" army.
With all due respect, comrade.
I'm not an American, but it's a fact that Americans have contributed more to the well-being of non-English speaking peoples than any other country in the World and in history. To say that Americans only care about English-speaking people is just ignorance speaking.
It wasn't just white people who lost their lives during the 911 attacks, @sneak. Your statement is ridiculous, guy.
lmao
https://espressostalinist.com/u-s-imperialism-page/
here is the us imperialism page. Take a guess at how many dictators we have backed.
I'll give you a hint: it's more than 20.
Lol, a citation where the very URL praises a mass murderer.
What will your next bullshit citation be, The Hitler Daily? Der Sturmer?
mein-craft, hitlers second lesser known book about knitting.
It must have been strange to live in a time when Hitler was not yet an acceptable source of humor.
I agree and I usually include a thought about how messed up our world is in that regard to the people dying in extreme suffering due to poverty.
Some governments have killed millions of their citizens directly and it could also be argued governments are the biggest murderers. In fact I don't know how people could successfully argue otherwise.
Wow :)
Its first world vs third world. The divide is between the workers of imperialist countries and the poverty stricken workers of the targets.
Of course they care about people killed in their biggest city in their biggest building. Not sure Americans were focused on the language they were talking. Diarreah doesn't kill many in America maybe you should try watching some local TV
agree
the real problem is the people who organised the 911 false flag operation are still free to exercise policy , still free to carry on their corrupt practices dragging countries into wars for their profit and power , murdering thousands more every day , only when they are exposed and locked up will this world be able to move forwards with any form of sanity
The world powers are evil for allowing this,because if you look around the world there is enough to go round for every single creature...but undiluted greed is the order of the day!
The problem is that we have not stopped capitalism. The world powers are a direct result of that.
Wow :)