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RE: The Problems of Social Democracy
"private property is theft"
the workers mine the ore, shape it, build the parts, move the parts, build the factories, and wok in them. The rich just manipulate capital
Um okay, what do you propose as a tally of value? The miners are voluntarily working for value.
The "value" of the currency they are mining still is measured in resources that take labor to obtain. The miners get that without doing any real work, in fact it is the opposite of work because it consumes needed electricity and computer components that could be actually helping humanity.
In reality they are only getting money because they have money.
I disagree.
The whole point of a modern mine is that it is able to produce and accomplish orders of magnitude more than a single dude with a shovel could achieve.
There is a reason that the mine owner makes more than the mine laborers.
"Consuming needed electricity and computer components that could actually be helping humanity" - well how do you think those computer parts got made? You have to mine gold, silicon, and copper to make computers. That needs to be done at scale with the degrees of specialization seen today.
One bloke can't labor away all he wants and mine everything he needs on his own.
This is a cooperative society.
I thought you were talking about crypto mining lmao
Same thing applies with crypto. Exactly.
the mine owner makes more than the laborers because he is the one with power over them. His mine is his own state, he simply had enough capital to start it so he gets to take what the workers produce
Yep. Exactly how it should be.
Everyone has the same ability as the mine-owner.
You make it sound like a bad thing.
you literally pay the owner to be able to work, when it was the workers who built it. All the owner does is manipulate capital for more capital.
In fact without private property owners there would be no joblessness
Just because you have money doesn't mean you deserve other peoples.
Well you sell your labor to the capitalist lol.
The owner has the skills and connections to organize a massive number of workers and cordinate something that is worth much more as a sum of the workers together than any of them would be worth individually.
Without private property owners there would be no cordination or MODERN civilization.
Just because you have money does not mean you deserve other people's, you are certainly right!
"Without private property owners there would be no cordination or MODERN civilization."
wrong. Many societies have worked without private property in the modern world. I actually have no examples of them doing worse under socialism lmao.
"The owner has the skills and connections to organize a massive number of workers and cordinate something that is worth much more as a sum of the workers together than any of them would be worth individually."
uhhhh but the workers themselves actually do this better. Nice try tho
"Just because you have money does not mean you deserve other people's, you are certainly right!"
Then why do you hate a societal structure where everyone directly gets what they contribute?
"Well you sell your labor to the capitalist lol."
"sell your labor under their terms or starve to death, but remember you are free"
to take that one step further, even more organization by private property owners would be better?
So you support the highest level of that, fascism?
Labor.
Labor is the only real measure of the value of an object.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/wage-labour/
This sums it up.
It has been a while since I read that essay.
I still disagree with some of its agenda.
Labor might be the only real value of an object. This does not negate the concept of ownership.
Whatever it is that I beleve, strong property rights are certainly a cornerstone.
private property is a legal fiction.
No society without a government has had private property, while everyone still had their personal.
Sooooooo you want a society without private property?
Legal fiction? Ehh not so much. Society since the beginnings of time have had concepts of ownership. Just because you don't have a government to enforce it does not mean that human concepts of ownership disappear.
you don't now the difference between personal and private property do you....
I do, I just happen to believe they are one and the same.
no societies without a government have had a concept of private property.