Flat Earthers - Failed.
So last week, I tried to coerce Flat Earthers to teach me rationally and civilly what their movement is all about.
This wasn't an attempt to convert me or for me to convert them, I simply wanted to know their angle because so many people call each other stupid and retarded, when I'm sure people with perfectly decent intellects can fall under either scientist or the opposite.
I asked a whole range of questions to be answers with their own words, without links, youtube videos or memes, though they could cite a source at the end of their comment.
The results
Well, not much. Perhaps I should tag known believers. But what I did get was:
- Links
- Youtube video
- Anecdotal stories about an uncle working in NASA who didn't believe any their lies.
No memes, at least!
So I did say I'd make a follow up post, but the arguments I did get were so unsubstantial, there's nothing really to say.
My post even made it to the second spot under trending with the flatearth tag, so I suppose the movement simply isn't as big as we're made to believe on here. If that's the case, we can probably relax and focus on anti-vaxxers or something
Here, I'll tag some that may want to enlighten me and see if that makes a change:
Remember to keep it civil!
Image source, PIxabay
well, I for one, thought it was a terrific attempt... :)
This did lead to a pretty substantial follow up post (in case you weren't referring to that)!
yeah, geez, sorry about that! lol - that's what I was talking about, was jumping around a bit and didn't realize this post preceded that one! :) but great stuff nonetheless, though in the end unfortunately most people will believe what they want and find all sorts of ways to support and justify their worldview, erroneous as it may be.
Yep... But I've learnt a lot about their minds, which is what I'm going to follow THAT up with, a psychological analysis!
"If that's the case, we can probably relax and focus on anti-vaxxers or something"
What exactly do you mean by focus on Anti-vaxxers? Focus on them how and for what end goal?
I can't speak for mobbs but at a guess I think he means get them to see logic and stop endangering their own kids as well as everyone else's?
If the vaccines work like they are supposed to, how is an unvaxxed child a "danger" to a vaxxed child? Isn't that the point of the vaccine, to protect the individual who received it
Sorry we can perhaps discuss this in a later post, I really wanna keep it focussed on flat earth
With all due respect you did mention Anti-vaxxers in this post, if you don't want to discuss that subject here it may be best not to bring it up. Just my thoughts.
I can already see a nice debate in the comments of your upcoming post. Love what you do, trying to make some sense of it all.
However, I would like to point out the following: 95% of logic processing that happens in your brain is emotion. Some wouldn't call emotion logic (I wouldn't), but that's just fact, so I hear.
So when someone just feels in their gut that they have been lied to, they become immediately susceptible to 'alternative facts' within that domain. They can also become the fiercest and staunchest defenders of whatever theory it is that 'resonates' with them.
A quick google search will provide enough to support any wild theory. Don't be to harsh on them, they are usually good folk.
But I am following you, hoping for some of the best times in the comments under your posts. :)
I don't think 'logic is emotion' in that way, maybe misunderstood but the general concept you're talking about - definitely. There is a whole range of different psychological phenomenon going on behind the scenes that I occasionally read upon; cognitive dissonance in particular, a process in our heads that just makes us HATE being wrong, and also neurological reasons galore, such as our addiction and often dependence on serotonin and dopamine, a desire to find satisfaction and 'rest'.
It's a whole fascinating area of human nature, which is why I don't get angry when arguing these things anymore, it's all just...fascinating
Google "herd immunity" and then explain to me how you didn't already know about it.
I know about it. Now explain to me if the vaccine is supposed to work like we are told, how is an unprotected (unvaxxed) child a danger to a protected (vaxxed) child? Whats the point of getting a vaccine if it doesn't protect you from what it's supposed to?
How do you not know the answer to that if you know what herd immunity is?
I'm sorry I did not come to the same conclusion you did after doing research. So let me ask it this way, you have a herd of 19 cattle, all fully vaccinated (protected), and one is added to the herd that is not vaccinated (unprotected). At this point you have a herd with 95% vaccination rate. How does that 1 pose a threat to the 19?
The unvaccinated cattle is a refuge for viruses which could not survive in the vaccinated cattle. This gives it someplace to mutate until it's able to infect the vaccinated cattle. The continuous mutation of viruses is why you need more than one flu shot throughout life.
If 100% of the cattle are vaccinated, there are no available hosts, and the virus dies out. A great many diseases have been defeated this way throughout human history. Not because 100% of people were vaccinated but because a large enough majority were in developed countries that the disease persisted only in small, remote populations. Some of those diseases are now coming back because of refusal to vaccinate.
http://time.com/27308/4-diseases-making-a-comeback-thanks-to-anti-vaxxers/
http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2016/03/study-relates-vaccine-refusal-rise-measles-pertussis
https://www.cdc.gov/measles/cases-outbreaks.html
http://www.health.com/childhood-vaccines/5-old-diseases-that-are-making-a-comeback
http://reference.medscape.com/features/slideshow/vaccine-preventable-diseases
Not quite. I am under no pretense that I could ever change their minds. People can typically only change their own minds in these circles, I just want to learn how they reached their position so strongly and determinedly
Fair enough I have deleted my post.
Great to see someone who is willing to have the discussion without emotion. I think there are a FE 's out there who just want a free ride into space. It's the only I have considered becoming a FE lol.
@dwells in respect of mobbs post we can continue this disucssion some other time. Have a great day.
Thanks! and lolz
orbiting the sun? that's nonsense lol O__o
I mean, we obviously orbit anti-clockwise around Bitcoin, right? =P
@mobbs I'll do my best to answer your questions. Reply to this comment with each question as it's own individual reply and I'll answer them to the best of my ability.
Good idea, I'll just pick a few from the last post, and I'll not offer a counter-argument for now, save it for a third post:
If you don't believe in photographic evidence from the majority of the world, what DO you consider evidence?
Let me start off by saying I am not a flat earther. Photo and video evidence is easy to manipulate. I can show you countless numbers of video footage that would show a clear curve at only 100- 200 feet of elevation. Camera lenses cause major Distortion. Personally I would like someone to take an old-school Polaroid camera to space and snap a picture that way. When you can see that NASA is putting together composite images and they're using clone tools in Photoshop it makes you distrust what they put out.
Look at the J Baumgartner skydive from the edge of space, the outside cameras have a fisheye lens on them and show a clear curve but when the capsule door opens and there's a camera on the inside without a fisheye lens there's no curve to be seen.
2 - If there are edges with a huge wall of ice, why has nobody been there? of the 7.4 billion people alive and 100 billion dead, how come not a single one in human history has ever managed to actually go there?
Millions of people have boats and private jets and so forth. What makes it so impossible to visit the edge?
Your assuming no one has been to the edge. It's very plausible that people have been to the edge and the information was concealed from the public.
3 - Why are all the other planets round, as can be directly observed with a telescope, ball-shadows, rotation and all?
Is it a religious thing where our earth is somehow unique and special and non-believers around the world trick believers? so, why claim to fight science with science when it's an entirely faith-based, unfalsifiable claim?
and connected to this:
4 - where is the science that corrects mainstream science? has it been publicly available to reproduce and thus pass scientific methodology?
A circle/disc is round. Ball shadow? How is a ball shadow possible? Shadows are 2D not 3D.
For some it's religious, for some it's not.
I haven't made any claims about fighting science with science but on that subject scientific theory can be just as faith based as a religion. Science pushes big bang and evolution but neither can be tested, verified, proved and repeated. Isn't that the basis of establishing a scientific proof, the results have to be repeatable.
Where is the science that corrects mainstream science? You will have to look for that yourself but in order to do so you have to remove all bias first.
That’s not true. Evolution has been proven clinically on fish and some other smaller organisms featuring short life cycles. For more details, I recommend ‘The Greatest Show on Earth: The Evidence for Evolution’ by Richard Dawkins.
Just to clarify, you can see the shadows of planets and moons on the face of other planetary bodies. Likewise, you can see planets go around and in front, and observe the spin/angle of their atmospheres.
5 - (I think 5 will be enough, right?) Why? Why would the evil higher-ups go to such great lengths to create technology over hundreds of years designed to lie to us, science classes that trick us, amateur videos by the millions that are digitally altered, when a simple stick and tape measure, and a quick drive 200km away can prove what the evil higher-ups say is correct?
For what cause?
just checked my history over and over again and i couldn't find any questions of you?!!strange..but go ahead ; i know how people are..
what's wrong with youtube videos and links; couldn't there be valuable information in those sources?And please, if you ask questions ; we're not claiming to know it all! Do observations yourself and you will be amazed of how many lies you've been fed!Peace
Yeah there's lots of easy info out there but that isn't the point of this. As said, there's no way to convince one side or the other side, they have to see it themselves.
This is for me to get an understanding on how people get to their beliefs of flat earth, so I need to hear it from their own minds, with perhaps scientific data to back it up. Youtube videos typically base their arguments on logical skepticism rather than evidence, like 'if evolution is true, why are there still monkeys?' - the question is fundamentally flawed but even so, it doesn't purport a theory or provide evidence. it's just a question aimed at dislodging an idea.
So i want to find out through the minds of the actual believers
but scince you didn't ask me anything and you're claiming in this blog you did, i'm not sure i can trust your intentions.
Sorry I'm confused, who are you? Did I tag you? If so I just wanted you to read my post and ask ME questions that I could address. But I'm about to post a post in response to other users now so never mind! =D
funny man
https://steemit.com/flatearth/@barber78/jeff-berwick-talks-to-eric-dubay-flat-earth
Haven't you seen pirates of the carribean @mobbs !?!