Dear Vitalik ... you owe me $13.54 USD (Part 1)

in eos •  2 years ago

So I bought some EOS tokens via ICO and tried to claim them the other day, but didn't have enough ETH left in my wallet to pay for the tx fee. MetaMask advised me I'd need a little over 0.04 ETH to claim my tokens - this seemed a little expensive, but I'd seen max fee quotes like this before that ended up being a lot cheaper, so I shrugged it off. I wasn't too fussed about claiming the tokens right away: I figured I would be buying more soon anyway, and if the tx did happen to cost that much, I may as well wait and bundle my claims together ...





So I decided to buy a little more EOS today and figured I may as well claim the last lot of tokens too. I checked the max TX fee and bought enough ETH to cover that and my EOS purchase. I placed my bid in today's round and even left an extra .01 ETH in the wallet just in case. The auction ended a little while ago, I paid a fair rate for my second lot of tokens and was excited to finally claim the first lot. I hit the claim button and accepted the tx in MetaMask. Nothing could stop me this time, I'd come prepared ... Or so I thought.

5m later the tx is out of pending, my ETH balance has been drained by 0.04, but still no ICO tokens - just the 50 I bought on exchange:





I thought I'd investigate and see what had happened, so I went back to the main MetaMask screen and clicked my apparently successful transaction. Every thing looked good at first, but then I noticed the red warning sign and a rather irritating, unapologetic message from the network:





Out of gas Ethereum? So you are telling me that not only does it cost $13 bloody US Dollars to interact with one of your "smart" contracts, but sometimes even that doesn't cut it and you just lose money? The network message may as well have said "We just fucked you in the ass, have a nice day :)" ...

I am pissed off right now Vitalik. It's not the $13, it's the bloody principle of the thing. With Steem as my witness; some way, some how, I will be getting my $13 back. This I swear to you.

I demand satisfaction!

Stay tuned for part two where I attempt to negotiate a $13.54 refund with The Ethereum Foundation.



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And you made $45 in an hour with this post. @dan has you covered, where as @vitalik took you for a ride ;)

Overall you are net positive. You should still take this up to its logical closure.

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What happens when you convert the EOS tokens, and where do you put them once you do? Is this a requirement, or are my EOS tokens still good to go even without converting them? How do you know when they are converted, do they look different, smell different, act different?

Please explain, thanks!

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'Overall you are net positive. That is what matters in cryptos :P', well, no. As Bulleth stated, it's the principle here that matters. Smart contracts are there to ensure everything works properly, which it clearly doesn't. The contract stated a certain fee, which afterwards doesn't appear to be the right amount, that's weird.

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I didn't mean that he should give up the fight he is taking up. I think I should update the comment so that it is not construed wrongly.

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Nah I liked the comment that's why I put it up top lol

I think you are both right, what you suggested in your original comment is a great way of looking at life. My whole rant was pretty tongue-in-cheek, I didn't feel like posting charts today and this gave me inspiration to post something different.

Having said that, I think the whole thing is ridiculous, isn't the whole idea of smart contracts that no one gets screwed because computers execute them to a strict set of conditions?

I can not wait for EOS, this experience is a perfect example of Ethereum's many short comings :)

Hey bulleth,
Thanks for sharing

Hey @bulleth ...When I bought my EOS I also found the rate very high but I changed to 2 gwei and the fee went down to $1.21. It took about 2 hours to confirm but everything worked out with no issues...I even made a post about it but it is in portuguese, if you look the last two prints you can see how I claimed. I think you had bad luck on your transaction idk

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Hey mate, thanks so much for the tip - it's people like you who make Steem and Steemit a better place :)

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thanks man =]

Using MEW (not sure about MetaMask) you can adjust the gwei down to make it cheaper - takes a little longer but cheaper!

Data from my claimAll from etherscan:

Value: 0 Ether ($0.00) Gas Limit: 913947 Gas Used By Txn: 913946 Gas Price: 0.000000002 Ether (2 Gwei) Actual Tx Cost/Fee: 0.001827892 Ether ($0.60) Cumulative Gas Used: 3950657 Nonce: 19 Input Data:
Function: claimAll()

Info here at MEW

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As I said to @lpessin above, thanks so much for shedding some light on how to avoid this. You are truly an asset to community - keep it up :)

Yes, don't give up but keep fighting for your rights and what is honestly yours. It's time some of these shits stop. Sorry for all affected by cons

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Problem is this was a blockchain that screwed me! Oh well I'll be interested to see whether I can indeed scrounge a refund out of the foundation.

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If this problem continues to happen frequently to users it might dent the confidence we have with blockchain, anyways hope you find away to scrounge your funds back. Cheers mate 👍

Don't ever trust ICO. They eat the whole market, Steem price could be much bigger with Bitcoin going up if we didn't have these "cryptos" which will vanish anyway

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There's nothing wrong with the ICO, and EOS will be epic (it's the new project by the guy who created Steem ;)

I would not blame Vitalik for that. I still think the gas estimation from metamask is pretty bad and way to high. Additionally you could blame the coders of the whole claiming function of EOS tokens. 12 Dollars to get your tokens, this is way to high.

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The estimate wasn't too high, it was too low. I had to up by 50% to 3 Mil to make sure it got through and it cost 2.6.

If the gas paid isn't enough it should be returned to you, Eth network stealing the users money for work it didn't complete isn't good enough. IMO this is a perfect illustration of why nothing serious will ever take place on the Ethereum network. People don't want to pay every time they interact with the blockchain, companies don't want to pay every time they interact with the blockchain ... even if you do have to pay, you at least want to get what you paid for (or have the funds returned to you). Smart contracts are supposed to prevent this sort of thing happening, not be the cause of them.

Think you made your money back hahaha ;)

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Yep see that's how good Dan's stuff is ... it even pays you when Vitalik's network stuffs up :P

EOS will be BIG... The Ethereum Killer is looming... get as many as you can and laugh as Vitalik's project becomes obsolete :)

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I need some help with these fucking EOS Tokens as well please.

I want my 69 EOS Tokens back please. I don't understand where they are.

TxHash: 0x93176bc6b5ae3c59a44cf67f44778a784564896a3aa9cabfa9bedbfc7edfaf89

From: 0xBCaf20380cd23fBD77117B3d375b46421c58A538

To: 0xd0a6e6c54dbc68db5db3a091b171a77407ff7ccf

Here is myetherwallet address where the tokens should be:

0xA69Ed18dc377352De05b82e19C2d750cA9841AD9

Ethereum Foundation will not refund you if they aren't invested in EOS (remember theDAO?)

Get yourself 50 FREE tokens!!! For the new exchange on October WCX offers a pro experience with 10x lower fees guarantee https://wcex.co/?ref=MPCIbEPD

"We just fucked you in the ass, have a nice day :)" ... jajaja

I also want to be a witness when I get your money back, I look forward to the second part, very lucky and my best wishes

Forgive and forget. Not worth your time just to collect back $13.54.

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You're probably right :)

You might add my 13$ on top of yours and probably the ones from many other users, too... I was "really disappointed" the time this happened to me about 2 days ago...

Keep us informed - lets see if you can get satisfaction and a reasonable result. Best of luck.

Did you use the claimAll function? I heard it's cheaper if you just claim that day you buy the tokens.

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Yeah I just used the 'Claim Tokens' button from the Dapp and it calls that function.

You literally threw it away yourself because you're ignorant of how gas even works. Good job.

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You are holding it wrong... don't blame the user for bad design choices.

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This kind of simplistic response may feel good, but it means nothing if you actually think about it.

What design is bad? The MetaMask gas price box that is front and center? EOS's lack of information about how much their contracts will cost to interact with? (which is utterly useless to talk about since the gas usage varies wildly between functions and how many times they loop) Smart contracts in general? Consider what you're saying for one second and ask yourself if it's appropriate to call any of this "bad design".

I'll acknowledge that you would have a valid point if we were talking about some kind of compulsory service, or even a service that we have explicitly paid for, but you're talking about open-source freeware made by independent, small teams that are building applications for the world to use for free and as-is.

If there was a good economic incentive to start compiling your own linux distribution, do you think it would somehow become easy over night? No, not at all. Understand that what your saying is coming from the entirely wrong perspective.

It's up to the user to understand the bare minimum of what they are doing if they don't want to accidentally make tiny mistakes and pend a few dollars more than they had to. There's no way to get away with saying it's "bad design" when somebody as ignorant as @bulleth even manages to do something like interact with a decentralized smart contract on the Ethereum network. Do you realize how abstract and high-level that concept is? The fact that this is possible at all indicates that there is some incredibly good design in place.

Crypto is not user-friendly. Whether it should be or not is irrelevant to my point here, but by no means am I trying to say something like "@bulleth should've known better, what an idiot." That would be completely asinine. However, blaming Vitalik of all people is arguably just as idiotic. It's a click-bait, hollow, sensationalist post - exactly the type Steemit users love.

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Exactly!

In a well thought out and robust system, my experience would not have been possible. Thanks for the vote mate, much appreciated.

Was about to email .org about this, but you might be able to help ... just wondering what the requirements are and what the process is for getting a UIA officially listed on the dex?

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Right. That explains why I had to increase the gas limit to 3 million to make it work. Good one buddy.

Nice work on up voting your own comment there too. GREAT JOB!

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Still proving my point that you have no idea how gas works. First off, stop being an entitled prick saying anybody "owes" you anything, especially Vitalik. If you're not able to handle using a completely voluntary, in-development system, then that's really your problem alone.

Secondly, your transaction call to the claimAll() function ate 2602870 gas, further calls raised it to 3502711 but that really doesn't matter since you don't pay for those. 2602870 gas at 21 gwei is 2602870 * 21000000000 wei, or 0.05466027 Ether. If you didn't want to pay that much, why the hell did you pay 21 gwei? There's literally pools mining for ZERO gas price, you didn't have to pay a cent. Even if you wanted your transaction to go through quickly, you easily could've used 4 gwei and paid ~ $3.

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Correct, I don't know much about this overly complex and convoluted system. This is the first time I've ever had to interact with the Ethereum network beyond simply buying ETH and funding my trading accounts. I'm a trader, not a bloody blockchain engineer. You shouldn't need to understand all this stuff to carry out a simple transaction and I stand by my point that no matter what, the network should never just chew your money.

I'll quote @dan above " You are holding it wrong... don't blame the user for bad design choices. "

Couldn't agree more and I'd love to see you bring that attitude of yours to him ... you won't though, because you're spineless and only argue with people you arrogantly assume you're more intelligent than.

Check the other comments, two people managed to deliver this explanation with out being a complete nob about it. Their comments will go to the top. If you want to get anywhere on Steemit, try not being an arsehole.

Now on to your insult 'entitled prick' ... You up vote your own useless comments and can't seem to share knowledge with out being a condescending dick. Go take a long hard look in the mirror.

Cheers

PS I've just had a look through your blog and you actually produce high quality original content which you are not getting paid enough for. Stop up-voting your own comments and lose the attitude and things might improve.

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It is complex, but "overly"? That really depends on how you're trying to see it. I don't think you'd call it overly complex if the only other option was for you to open up your Solidity IDE and start writing your own smart contract, which is quite literally the only option Vitalik has helped provide you with. You should be grateful that there are those out there who take the time to create things like MetaMask and MyEtherWallet so that non-technical people like you can even use Ethereum. They don't owe you a thing.

You shouldn't need to need to understand all this stuff to carry out a simple transaction.

Except you did carry out the transaction, and it was made simple for you, otherwise you would be completely hopeless to even try to attempt to do so since, as you say, you're not a blockchain engineer. What you think should or shouldn't be is 100% irrelevant unless you are willing to put your time and effort into changing it.

The network should never just chew your money.

The network did work for you. You are using other peoples' computers to compute enough information to realize that you didn't know what you were doing, twice. If you don't think you should have to pay for using other peoples' resources to realize your mistakes, you're even more entitled than I thought.

you won't though, because you're spineless...

Really? I just find that laughable after already writing my response to him. You should really read it, it may help you understand how bad your perspective is.

If you want to get anywhere on Steemit...

Now you're "arrogantly assuming" what I care about. My content will include my attitude because I write on my terms. If that's not what makes tons of money on Steem, so be it. I'd take my own values over money any day, especially when I'm not relying on income from Steemit or crypto in general. I'm keenly aware of how it looks when you vote on your own content or are not bending over backwards to be courteous to entitled brats, and people who take offense to that and can't see the point behind the language are honestly not the people I give a fuck about reaching to begin with.

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lol I honestly cbf.

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Solid explanation.