Should Parents Be Forced To Vaccinate Their Children?
Should Parents Be Forced To Vaccinate Their Children?
In Oregon, there is a new bill being discussed that would tighten up existing law regarding vaccination. Currently, a parent can opt out if they object on personal grounds to vaccines and still have their child attend public school. Currently, roughly 10% of children are not vaccinated, for one reason or another.
The new law would still allow for religious beliefs, and a health ailment where a physician has advised that a vaccine may be harmful to a child for some reason.
The legislation came about primarily because of a measles outbreak which started in Washington state and has been making it's way elsewhere. In most cases, the measles have been contracted because of a lack of immunization.
What do you think? Should the government in effect bring the hammer and force parents to immunize?
- Yes, there should be stricter and better enforcement of vaccine laws.
- Parents should still be able to opt out for personal reasons.
- No. The government should stay out of mandating vaccines completely.
- Other (please explain)
Answer the question at dpoll.xyz.
Voted for
All healthcare procedures include risks.
The idea that one person should take a risk to protect another person is absurd.
Yes there are vaccination injuries and yes some people have unusual cases of Measles that are harmful. The truth is the entire discussion is filled with hyperbole from both sides. Because most people survive both situations just fine.
The vast majority of us can handle a vaccination, and also Measles or Chicken Pox.
Not all vaccinations are the same, not all diseases are the same and not all immune systems are the same.
Every parent should review each vaccination, weigh the risks and rewards and make a decision and NO ONE else should get to have any say or even knowledge of the decision.
Healthcare should be personal and private.
You and I definitely agree that health decisions should be our own, and that others, including the government, shouldn't have a say in our decisions.
There's definitely risks, yes. As I was explaining to someone else, in the case of the measles, you have very young children (under one year old) that can't receive an immunization. So, my grandson and the one on the way would both be at risk.
If there's no law or enforcement of it as far as anyone getting these vaccines, is there an obligation or responsibility on the part of those who aren't immunizing to let those their children come in contact with know that such is the case?
In 90% of people Measles are a rash, with or without a fever. Even when there are severe complications we can USUALLY treat those easily... Bring down the fever, rehydrate the patient.
No, I do not feel people should have to isolate their children over vaccinations. What if those very young children are exposed by foreigners or other sources.
If one is afraid their child's immune system cannot handle the disease the onus is on them to decide whether or not to isolate their child.
My kids had reactions to vaccinations. I selected carefully with the help of my physician. (before the debate got crazy) we vaccinated for Polio and a couple of others. It was a tough decision and we ACTUALLY reviewed the risk and rewards of each disease and vaccination with my son't immune system in mind. (he also had a heart condition) I don't think anyone should have to justify that to the school, the public or anyone else.
Not a fan of government mandates, especially when there is huge money at stake with lobbies having their political stooges craft laws that limit their liabilities. In another comment, I saw it stated that government pays us to send our kids to school and I don't understand how that logic was arrived at. We are forced to pay for these schools in many areas (all I have lived in) via property taxes, whether one has a kid in school or not. I have never met anyone who gave the authority for the schools in person, everyone I know has been told what we are paying and dependent on state, whether one can home school and if so in many cases how one has to do so.
Land of the free and all.
Hey, @practicalthought. Thanks for answering the poll question. :)
I can't speak for the commenter, but what I got out of it is, we the people can stop this, but we don't, for any and all reasons we could throw at it. The simple fact is, those we've elected to do our will end up doing their own, or some collective will that is against the people. And the more we let it go, the more difficult it not impossible it becomes to wrest it back.
While it's not us the government is paying to educate our children, the entities receiving the money certainly act like the government is paying them, rather than the people whose taxes go to pay for the education.
So, rather than give anything, we abdicate, and they take.
Yes, the government should be able to enforce certain vaccines.
Beyond MMR and time tested ones, there should be an independent panel that isn't controlled by Big Pharma that looks at various vaccines.
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Hey, @protegaa. Thanks for answering the poll question.
It's a tricky thing, I think, and you've hit on one of them. I'm not sure just how much I like the way things get passed through the FDA, especially when there's a lot of money involved. And I have a hard time completely trusting big Pharma to do the right thing precisely for that.
An independent panel made up of medical professionals, if such a thing could exist, would be great.
I feel for parents who believe vaccines don't always work, or have some kind of ill effects. I don't carte blanche trust any side in this, though, and that includes the perceptions of parents, so it's tough to really know. I know I had all the shots, and so did my children, and so far, none of us have been adversely affected, and the vaccines worked.
Where I have the hardest time is when parents don't want to vaccinate, but then want to have their children involved in public school, or running around in public places. Since a child under one years old doesn't get the MMR, I have a grandson who is currently at risk to this outbreak up here and an unborn grandson on the way. I'm not sure how you keep people from going places and doing things without it becoming exiling or forced quarantining, but just because some are willing to take the risks (even over other dangers) doesn't mean others should suffer for those decisions.
If you are going to worry about a baby/toddler being exposed, then don't just worry about unvaccinated children potentially spread it. ALL vaccinations wear off within 3-10 years.
And hardly any of the adults have been revaccinated with the MMR,
so every single adult who never had an actual case of measles themselves,
could catch measles and spread it just as easily as a child could.
So, if you want to force children to get vaccinated or stay quarantined,
then you would have to do the same for all adults that haven't gotten all their boosters.
And I'll tell you this, the adults will just say NO to forced vaccinations.
Therefore, we will never have this desired "Community Immunity."
I am 50 years old and have had the actual measles, so I'm good. I can never get it again as I have life-long immunity.
I had the good fortune of being able to pass that natural immunity to my 3 babies through the placenta for the first year of life, and even past the age of 2 through my breast milk.
The unfortunate side-affect of all the young mothers being vaccinated now for MMR, is that they do not have strong enough immunity to pass along to their infants/toddlers. So now, if there is a measles epidemic, young babies are at risk, and yes, young babies are the most vulnerable.
In the past, children would not catch measles until they were old enough to be at low-risk.
The MMR vaccination program has just messed up the way that nature best protected the most vulnerable among us, which is mothers passing along immunity to their babies. When the MMR vaccinated generation become senior citizens, we will start to see measles outbreaks amongst the elderly! ... another vulnerable population that would have never contracted measles in the past.
When the MMR program started, they told us it was "One Shot for Life."
Then it became 3 shots for children over their childhood.
They just haven't wanted to break it to the adult population yet that they are not protected unless they keep going in for more and more shots.
AND each shot brings a risk with it.
It might be worth it to take the risk one time, if one time was all that was needed.
But taking those risks over and over and over again through your life, for not just the MMR but any other vaccine that you have had ... well, makes the choice much more likely to just be a NO to any vaccine in the first place.
Hey, @canadian-coconut.
I appreciate the life experience and the input. It's definitely a hot button topic where all sides have strong feelings about how things should go, and what should or should not be done.
I agree with you—there's no way adults would go for forced boosters and less isolation or quarantine—nor should they. The idea of internment camps came to mind as I was writing that first reply, but that's rather strong and has all different kinds of connotations. The idea is forced interment against your will due to potential (and difficult if not impossible to prove) circumstances, rather than anything you did.
Personally, the more government seems to get involved, the less it seems to solve a problem without creating many more. So, mandates for me are hard to take. At the same time, someone, somehow, should look out for the most vulnerable among us, be it charities, individuals, or something else that won't try to control or act fraudulently.
I do worry about my grandchildren and their well being (just as I'm sure the majority of grandparents do), and the more we go along in this information age, the less we seem to actually know, unless we've gone left when we were told to go right and came out unscathed.
i do believe the body's natural immune system is incredible, and, that in at least some ways we've been causing more problems through vaccines (for me, the main one is the flu), because we don't build up a natural immunity to these common bugs, which then have a nasty way of mutating into a more virulent strain.
So, it comes down to the freedom to choose while taking personal responsibility and accountability, thus accepting the consequences of one's actions. Too many have been let off the hook as far as the latter part of that goes, and it just continues tangle up and complicate things.
No wonder fucking stupid cunt @canadian-coconut had her kids taken away
Sorry to disappoint you, but CPS has never bothered my family.
If vaccines worked they would prevent people/children from getting infected from a non vaccinated person/child.
I haven't had a chance to track down the numbers on the outbreak here in the Northwest, but my understanding is, it's primarily those who don't have the vaccine that are getting it. Exceptions to that could be adults who haven't gotten the booster (as far as measles are concerned), and newborns to a year old who aren't advise to get shots.
I'm sure, though, the possibility of a faulty vaccination is out there.
They are erasing any and all information that even questions (doubts) the effectiveness of vaccinations. On the CDC's own website they have thousands & thousands of reports of severe health complications including death from vaccinations (which even they themselves admit is under reported) . They make it almost impossible to find but its there. They have billions of dollars (from a vaccine tax) ready to pay families that are injured although they are well protected by the gov so dont expect much if your infant is injured or dies. The doctors are clueless on any of the vaccine ingredients. The cdc fast tracks vaccines which are basically a gamble. We now have upwards of 60 vaccinations, many containing mercury and a host of other crazy ingredients (just look at the packet insert). When i was born (early 80s) we had 4 vaccinations, 4. There is a host of issues around vaccinations and anyone who questions anything is shut up. All my cousins children have weird allergies, a host of health issues and they were all vaccinated (a link?, seems to be from all the people i know). My son has zero, and zero health or allergy issues. The docs are brainwashed by their medical dogma. Pharma & the gov are in bed together. I sound like a loony? Maybe but it looks the exact opposite from my view. There was a school with a measles outbreak and most the children were vaccinated, oddly any negative reports again have vanished. Shady shady crap in the vaccine world. The list truly goes on and on.
Well, thank you for this. It's been very interesting the different experiences that people have with this, and it's pretty personal for many people. I think there's plenty of unanswered questions, on purpose or otherwise, and in a day and age where information is easy to access, we all should really be on the same page. But we can't be if the interests involved aren't transparent enough to permit that the actual truth be readily found.
I certainly don't think you're loony. Something is causing allergies (I like the use of plastic for food products as at least one culprit), and I don't believe that all doctors know all that they should know about anything, let alone what's in a vaccine and what it will do.
I'm afraid we're only at the beginning of such discussions, too, and I hope that there's a resolution that the vast majority can buy into. It would be nice if something like that were to happen for a change rather than all sides feeling like they're the loony.
You are a wise man Grandpa :]. I couldn't agree more.
An independent panel made up of medical professionals
They are just as crooked as the ones there now.
There is a measles outbreak in the NW. that is due to people let into the country without vaccines. Polio is on a comeback in some countries. Let that one get loose here.
Yeah, it would be hard to get the independent panel together that most people would trust. There's so much entanglement it's hard to.
Its almost like its leveled on purpose. Hehe 😉
Voted for
No vaccines, no public school. Teach your kids at home. It's bad enough I have to pay these high school taxes, when I've never had kids.
hey, @wonderwop.
Best two years of education my sons had is when I homeschooled them, so I'm on board there. I know some would find it hard to do, but there's a lot of support now from homeschooling organizations and communities that weren't there only 15-20 years ago. I think a person could make a good case that it's time for public schools to go the way of the Dodo.
I hear you on the taxes, too. Kids go to school for twelve years or so, but we continue to pay for years and years after that. And it's not just the operating funds, but the renovations and additional building they do through levies. Our property taxes have nearly tripled because of those in the 14 years we've been here. :/
The schools they're building now look like malls. Just a bunch of wasted space, where classrooms should be. And the nicest, polite, children I've even seen recently, are these three kids that come to our coin club meeting, and all three are homeschooled by their mom. How refreshing not to see pants hanging down to their knees and unkept kids hanging at the convenience store.
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Voted for No of course. Stay the Bleep out of my business, my health, my parenting decisions, and get rid of the death tax already, etc etc etc.
Its late so ill keep this short. There is nothing but shady dealings surrounding pharma and the gov. Forced vaccinations? Possibly for slaves or caddle. The whole medical industry is severely flawed and breaking there #1 oath "do no harm".
Hey, @weirdheadaches. Thanks for answering the poll question and for further explaining your choice.
It would be great if the government, and people in general, would mind their own business, wouldn't it? I agree that parents should have the right to make the choices they feel are best for their children. There are people who don't make right choices, and so the government seems more than ready to step in and make it so everyone toes the line, instead of dealing with things on a local, case by case basis.
The greater good seems to get invoked in these cases, and I have expressed a concern for my own youngest and unborn grandsons who can't get shots yet. I'm not inclined to force anyone to do anything, nor am I for something like isolating or quarantining those who don't vaccinate, but I would like people to be responsible enough to let others know if they're choosing not to vaccinate.
Other. Sorta. The government should not force, but stopping an unvaccinated child from attending a public school is not force. Now, the tax that funds the school is force, but that's another argument. I believe that people should be left to make their own decisions and to be left to the consequences of those decisions (as far as the government is concerned).
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Hey, @moeknows.
Thanks for the response and the explanation.
Just to make sure I get what you said, the consequence of a choice to not vaccinate a child would be that the child could not attend school, even though the parent would want that, too.
Also, what do you think about situations where the child who is not immunized could put another child, say one that can't be immunized yet because of age, at risk. Is there a responsibility at least on the part of the parent to alert others that their child has not been vaccinated?
I think the choice of whether or not an unvaccinated child is allowed to attend should reside with the school. The school would then relay their policy to their customers (i.e. students' parents). Someone with a medical reason to forgo vaccinations might choose not to attend a school with a liberal vaccination policy.
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So, in Oregon, and I would imagine throughout the United States, schools get their funding through the state of Oregon, and so the state feels it can decide what the law is going to be for all schools, regardless of what the majority of parents in each school district might want. That's the issue, on top of whatever federally mandated rules there may be (which I don't know anything about).
I'm with you, though, that things should be resolved on the lowest possible level, which in this case would be between the school or school district, and the parent(s).
I don't think the government run schools would ever allow unvaccinated children without special circumstances, and I'm not sure that they should either. But I do believe that people of a minorty opinion should not have to relinquish their freedom to the majority just because. So in this case, I would support a system which would allow those parents to the withdraw the tax dollars allotted for their children (or at least a large part of it) and allow them to attain an alternative education for their kids.
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I think parents should also have the choice to opt out. But over here in Malaysia, we do have a set of vaccination that children will be given accordingly. And most parents accept them.
Hey, @iamjadeline.
Thank you for the prompt. Late is better than nothing. :)
re: opt out
I agree. The new bill still allows for medical and religious reasons, but takes away person preference or choice. So, basically, if there's health issue or a faith based reason, then the child will need to be vaccinated in order to attend public schools.
I think the majority of the people in my state do accept it and immunize (90% I think is the statistic for Oregon). That, however, is considered low among other states that are up around 95-99% immunized. So, anyway, whenever freedom of choice clashes with the public good, there's bound to be controversy, but hopefully some kind of discussion where all sides can be heard and a resolution that will attempt to address the issues can be made.
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Howdy sir Glen! fantastic job of simulating conversation!