Searching for the upvote "sweet spot" - following @beanz' lead

in #curation4 years ago

Hardfork 19 has been putting a crimp in my curation and I've been vocal about seriously not liking the 100% vote strength on 10 posts limit before the vote power goes in the toilet.

Pretty much from the beginning of my Steemit history I've been saying,

"If you're not a whale, upvote 100%."

As a minnow I couldn't wait for my slider! I was rewarded with it as soon as I hit 1.00m vests... and have disliked the darned thing from that moment on.

Until HF19 came around, I maintained my voting practice of 100% on all posts. I felt like I was being a good tipper. My curation includes a read through, an upvote, and often a thoughtful comment, observation, or tip. This practice works for me!

In my hey-day, I would leave anywhere between 20-60+ comments and didn't care about vote strength because it always recovered fast enough to be worth a damn. But now? I feel like I'm wasting precious time worried about how long it's going to take my account to recover.



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It sounds like I'm talking "me, my, and mine" right? Quite selfish, you'd think.

In reality, these upvotes are a huge part of the giving/tipping economy that we've built here. Sure, I can upvote all day, every day, and completely drain my voting strength - but then an upvote would be worth $0.00.


Pardon me but that's like having a $100 bar tab and leaving the bartender a penny. Having been a waitress and bartender in the past, that is a major insult! I'd rather a patron walk out leaving nothing than scoop up their disparaging penny.


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Look, if I took the time to read your post, 99% of the time it's followed up with an upvote and comment -- and I like to tip. I don't want to tip you 10 or 20%. I want to tip you 100%. But I feel like I can't anymore and that feeling SUCKS.

I know... First world problems.


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Moving forward

FINE! HF19 is here and I may as well stop bitching about it. Time to move forward and figure out a way to stop feeling like a bad tipper. I haven't developed a strategy because I've been too busy moping but @beanz took it in stride.

She started an experiment 2 weeks ago and it seems she's found a sweet spot for her voting habits.


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Here is the result of her experiment.


It will probably take about 12 hours for me to reach 100% vote power before I can begin my experiment. I will share the results in about a week. And since I have no self control over this reading/upvoting habit of mine, I've got to sign out of Steemit this evening.

Fear not!


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I'll be back.


In the meantime...

I found a really awesome blog post that explained how our reputation scores are calculated!


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Thank you @sevinwilson for this post which includes easy-to-follow illustrations.

In a nutshell you need:

  • Your reputation number (found in Steemd)
  • Take that number and find the log10(x) of it.
  • Subtract 9
  • Then multiply by 9
  • Then add 25.

Here's a handy log base 10 calculator.

Example:
This is my reputation number: 88,529,815,473,050
Using the calculator the log10(x) = 13.9470895589997
psst! take out the commas or the calculator doesn't work.
minus 9 = 4.9470895589997
multiplied by 9 = 44.5238060309973
plus 25 = 69.5238060309973

Rounded to the nearest 10th my rep score is 69.5 - or rounded down to the nearest integer is 69.

Have fun tracking when you hit the next rep score!


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You have a duty as a new Steemian to learn about witnesses and their important role within the community. Read @pfunk's Complete User's Guide to Steem Witnesses. You have 30 votes. Use them wisely.


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25% now is equivalent to the previous 100%. Why not just use your 40 votes at 25%? If you vote more than 40 times, so be it. That's no worse than what would happen pre-hard fork. In fact, I think your voting power depletes slower now as it drops, after your first 10 (or 40) votes.

Cool! Thanks @ats-david. We were just discussing leaving it at 20 but if I can keep to my 40 votes at 25% without being completely depleted, I could live with that.

Maybe you can shed light on this too. When HF19 passed, my 100% vote at 100% vote power was worth about $8. Now it's down to about $3.50. Is there an easy explanation for that drop?

I don't have a slider yet. But my vote used to be worth $0.00. After HF19 my vote is now worth $0.12ish. My biggest gripe prior to this change was that my vote was worth 'nothing'. But your vote losing 57% of its value...I would be frustrated too!

---Homa

Is there an easy explanation for that drop?

Easiest explanation is the drop in price, but that doesn't account for the full loss. I'm sure the rest has to do with the number of people voting, the number of votes being cast, and the amount of influence being used.

How exactly it all pans out, I'm not sure.

For the record: I was not in favor of the changes. I wanted less than squared but more than a full linear algorithm. And I was completely against changing the vote target to give people 4x upvote power. Both of these completely disregard the abuse mitigation protocols that were in place...and even worse - they came after the 4-post reward limits were removed. But it seems that nobody wants to listen to common sense, so here we are.

Here's the most informative article I've seen explaining the drop in payouts - an article by @penguinpablo - Why Your Potential Payouts are Going Down. It's the inverse of the HF18 problem, where the reward pool had to build up over a month. Now the reward pool is being drained, but it's not clear how long it will take to reach a new equilibrium.

I'll vote 20-25%, depending on if I'm attempting to recharge vote power or not. The vote at that power is worth more than my 100% used to be, and I can still vote many times throughout the day, so therefore, it's like hardfuck 19 doesn't exist.

I just decided I need to stick that slider on 20% and vote like I used to. ;)

If everyone did that, we'd see the actual changes so many wanted to see happen with this new hardfork. Our average incoming vote count would go back to normal, instead of being cut in half(usually more than that) and we'd see those larger payouts everyone was hoping for.

It's definitely worth a shot. I'm waiting to hit 100% and then I'll set the slider to 20 and comment votes to 5.

@whatsup @nonameslefttouse and @merej99 do you know how long it actually takes to get back to a 100 %????? Freaking 3 days already! We have always created good quality content and will stick to doing so. I am NOT prepared to drown now after being here so long. I have done exactly the same. Voting on 20% and comments on 1 % which I adjust depending on the comment. If we could all stand together like we used to, we will definitely see a difference. I have switched back on my steemvoter and will see how that plays out this week. This is my experiment for the week.

That might be how I begin the experiment this week.

I've tried voting voting everything between 25 and 50% with an occasional 100% for my #payitforward people. I've tried 10 to 20% on everything. With SteemVoter on pause, I'm missing out on awesome stuff from THIS MAN
I'm not a happy camper. I may just say fek it and do 10% across the board.

I still like having the option to turn up the juice, but I explained my logic in the comment currently above this thread. Before the changes came about, I already predicted the negative (and overlooked) consequences. I knew those of us who helped make this place what it is today would be taking a hit. Some are even quitting now and it seems to be even harder for the minnows to get anywhere because they don't even vote for each other. "We want more people! Lets give them less votes!" <---- wtf?

Yeah, that bit about limiting the votes didn't make any sense when they were talking about it prior to HF19. I won't quit Steemit unless the site shuts down. We've been through the 8 cent STEEM and now this. It's still earning 100% more than any other site I've been on so I'm really not being ungrateful but damn, this site is hard enough without this bullshit too.

@merej99 I'm one of those dumb people who can't seem to help but read through most of the comments too. This one got me to follow you.

I try very hard to be upbeat about Steemit. The learning curve is hellacious enough for new people without veterans spewing negativity or rage quitting only to come crawling back because they're not going to find anything better - at least not any time soon.

I can be diplomatic @theblindsquirl, but I'm also going to tell it like I see it :)

I don't want to quit either and I've made it clear on many occasions that I don't take any of this for granted. That being said, and continuing down the path of just being honest, I'd be lying if I said it doesn't bother me watching the following grow, and the views and votes decrease at the same time.

When I started out, I didn't care how hard it was, I just wanted to climb the ladder. Seems like the ladder is gone now. I feel like I've been thrown in the garbage some days. Not easy to deal with.

The removal of the 4 posts/day limit is making my feed a mess. I don't follow that many people, but my feed is swamped with posts. Even old-timers here are pumping out posts, filling my feed, and blocking my access to other folks I like to see. I'm shifting to a handwritten list now, just so I can see the handful of people that I really like, like your blog. It's amazing how stymied I got by HF19.

Ughh, I'm losing my everloving fecking mind over this thing!! But I don't have the heart for ten percent across the board, I don't think I've given a ten percent vote in my life besides comments. I don't know what to do. I guess I'm going to have to try the 25% for most people, if I find I can I'll slide it up to fifty here and there, and otherwise down to fifteen. That is what I"m going to have to try out for a week, and make a post about so I can also let everyone know that I love them and it has nothing to do with how I feel abou their posts!! (I did just give you a 50 percent hit on the post you put in chat, and I wrote you a whole paragraph response that I accidentally deleted which is exactly how my luck is going lately, grrr!)

So, I was told by some wise one 25 is the new 100 too.

I like wise people. LOL No point recreating the wheel if those wise people say that's the number! :D

It's so good to read this, @merej99! Not that I'm happy you are struggling with the voting percentages, but you capture most of my troubles since HF19. I've been spending so much effort trying not to give too much or too little, and even up&down voted one poor guy so many times, trying to balance my vote value so it wouldn't be more than I gave to someone else.

And then I try to balance out the rewards for new people versus folks who have been here awhile. A nickel for new people is more than they are getting from anyone else, but that's too little for someone who has put in a lot of time building their blog. So I want to give them more.

The mental overhead is too much. In the original white paper, they said the upvote was better than tipping, like some sites. Their rationale was that choosing how much too tip required too much mental effort from people, so they would just not tip at all. But that's what's going on here on Steemit with the slider and the voting power.

And don't even get me started about the removal of the 4 posts/day limit, lol! My feed is unusable! Even good folks that I've enjoyed following are flinging posts out like there's no tomorrow and they have to transmit all their content by morning, lol. I can't vote on it all -- I can't even see it all! And now I can't see other folks, either. aaaaa. I'll cope. We'll all cope, I hope. ;O

I'm at 50% and I'm not happy, I'm gonna have to stop voting for 12 hours and try @beanz method.

I'm afraid I don't have her patience but I'm going to give it a try! Darn it! I keep upvoting comments too. :P
LOL

I always upvote my root post comments, I'm going to have to stop that as well. That's going to hurt. I want to find some balance with this hardfork so I'm going to bite the bullet...

Right?! When I was new I was blown away that some of my comments earned more than my posts! This could definitely hurt a lot of people in previously unforeseen ways. :o/

I don't spend so much time on steemit but I am noticing my voting power went from 12¢ to 4¢ in a few days. Nobody will know if your tip was worth 0.1¢ unless they are a developer and are prepared to spend hours in researching how to solve the problem.

It seems unlikely to me that everything you read on Steemit is worth an up vote.

Read, upvote, friendly comment, repeat. Love it.

I have also always voted at 100% but have been thinking about playing with it since the update.

I find that the people that I follow I still want to vote high. I am too emotionally attached!

100% upvote for you @merej99

What the heck Mer!-)You do realize I now have to do the steem log calculator and read the results of the test. In regard to the voting. I have been setting my slider on 20% for posts. If I come across a post that blows me away I take the hit on the chin and go 100.

Frank, Call the paramedic! I did math today! LOL

Good tips, i usually like to keep my power between 80%-100% :)

Me too, but I'm usually a pretty busy curator so that would drain me in an hour!

I think in part we all just need to get used to it and find our sweet spot. :)

Indeed!
But there are some times when I feel like I've found a good, efficient way of doing things and then...

Thanks for sharing your experience on steemit it helps us other steemians and give us more information about how things are going on steemit !!

I've actually got to apologize a little @simolab - I don't usually whine this much.
I'm tired and grumpy but I do try to give some value with each post - even if it's just a tiny bit. :D

when I first started voting for my posts under HF#19 my vote was over a dollar - then it fell to mere pennies. The reason? I was voting for everyone else first at 100 % and by the time I auto-voted my post, it was next to nothing.
Glad to see you back, mere, and posting your stuff :)

Right now I'm a bigger minnow and my full vote is about 30 cents. I keep my slider low and only can give a few pennies to people. I'm the kind of person who loves rewarding commenters on my posts and really good articles. I wish I could give my full vote out even though that's not much. It has killed traffic for me though. It's a much harder struggle to be a minnow when no one wants to vote or even look.

I think you hit on a very important issue that I've addressed a while ago. Basic blogging 101: People need to be aware that their featured photo, headline and the first 100 characters of their post can make or break them. With so many people posting content, if any of those 3 are off, you lose a great opportunity to snag new viewers.

I like your formula of "a read through, an upvote, and often a thoughtful comment, observation, or tip." If we all do this for our favorite posts every day, Steemit will continue to grow into a wonderful place. Thanks for sharing.

It's a very good formula to follow.
If you're going to bother reading, why not upvote?
If you upvote, why not give the creator insight on what got/kept your attention?

I personally go through the HOME and NEW tabs. I look at the thumbnail, title and first line. If it catches my attention, regardless of who wrote it, they get the triple treatment. :)

Very informative post on finding the steemit reputation and voting power. I borrowed about 4000 SP from @minnowbooster but then realized my voting power was just 10%. Bad time to experiment!! But anyway I have to make it work now. So I have a plan now, right now my 100% upvote will give you about 20 cents when my voting power is just 10%. But I am not upvoting your post right now. I have resteemed it and will upvote it in couple of days once my voting power will reach above 50% and even 20% that time will worth more. I think I have to start experimenting too to figure out things here at steemit.

Happy steeming Meredith :))

I feel the same way about curation/upvotes! I love upvoting people and engaging in replies. If it's a very informative article I like to resteem, so I guess if I run out of voting power I could help that way.

I don't think I've yet done all my witness voting yet, so thanks for the reminder.

I have little self-control when it comes to Steemit and I'm trying very hard not to explore the abundance of posts that are out there. I really want to start at 100% vote strength to get some solid numbers. BUT the positive thing is that you left a really cool comment and I'm following you now. :)

Yes, yes on the witnesses. They are important and try not to consider it a popularity contest. See what you can find out about them and make informed decisions.

Still working in increments of 25%. It would probably be alright if i wasn't so trigger happy! 🤣

That's my problem. When I binge I could vote on 60+ posts, not including comments!
I might do what @whatsup is trying. Stick with 20% and see what happens. :)

Good luck!

Despite my best efforts I just couldn't help myself again. Think the only way that is going to work if Iseriously wanted to recharge all the way would be to not read anything and stay off Discord XD

I usually am on here a lot. I like to comment a lot. I also host #monochromemonday as well as #oldtimers and #treetuesday. I try to support many posts on all of these. So I have been forced to stay around 10% upvotes if I want my power to recuperate overnight.

Thanks for this post @merej99 because I've been struggling with this myself. The math thing...argggggh. I hate math! So I'll just keep experimenting with my slider thingy. I haven't been concerned about my voting power until today when I noticed that it's not recovering. I guess I'm upvoting too much? And I can see that if I keep this up, I won't have any voting power left! argggggh again! "So what's a mother to do?" Edit: oh, I just realized that that's from a commercial from the olden days, and you prolly never heard it before. LOL

I usually get into the habit of all or none. I was using up all my vote strength and then laying low for a few days. But I'm missing out on a lot of good content. But being back and staying consistent has its toll because the account wasn't recovering! So trying to find this balance is the trick. I think @ats-david @whatsup and @nonameslefttouse have a good strategy that I'm going to try.

Math was the one subject in school that made my hair hurt. << that's not a typo. LOL
I just peeked at your rep on Steemd. You're at 71,926,685,768,762
13.856890049380459 - 9 =
4.856890049380459 * 9 =
43.71201044442413 + 25 = 68.712..... which looks accurate!
Now, if we only knew how to massage that number to move a little faster ;)

Thanks @merej99 it looks like I'll lay low with upvoting until recharged and then do about 10% and see what happens. I don't know what else to try.

This post has been ranked within the top 80 most undervalued posts in the first half of Jul 07. We estimate that this post is undervalued by $16.97 as compared to a scenario in which every voter had an equal say.

See the full rankings and details in The Daily Tribune: Jul 07 - Part I. You can also read about some of our methodology, data analysis and technical details in our initial post.

If you are the author and would prefer not to receive these comments, simply reply "Stop" to this comment.

I am enjoying the ability to give fellow Steemians a little something with my Up votes. Before HF19, all my votes were 100%. And worth under a dollar. Now I have developed a new strategy that lets me up vote as many times as I want, while keeping my voting strength high.

I am doing 20% votes for posts (worth about a dollar) and 10% votes for comments. I also do either 50% or 100% up votes for the occasional special post. Those 4 slider points make sense for me, and achieve my goals without being overly complex.

It's great that we now have the power to come up with plans like this, since we now have more effect on the reward pool. I've been Very Happy with HF19!

OK You know as well as I do all about the up voting slider thingy that you gave me instructions on a long time ago LOL !!! I would also , like @beanz wish to find that sweet spot , and will be checking her post out on that ! Looking forward to seeing how yours goes as well. Experiments can be fun !!! Good luck !
On another note my 2 sons just today and yesterday joined steemit !! Its awesome ! If you get a chance please welcome them ! Matt is 27 heres his address @mmckersie ! And Gavin now 30 where does the time go really !?!? OMG!! can be found at @gavinthegreat ! LOL , they have not done an introduction post yet but have posted a few things ! Its much appreciated @merej99 ! Maybe you have a special help for them or for their introduction !?!? Steem On my friend ! 👍👍👍 P. S . they do not know im messaging you this .

I tried that calculation. My reputation is 49 and after using the the log bas tool it is 1.6901960800285134 and -9 makes it go into minus and minus times 9 is still minus and adding 25 does not help. Maybe I made a mistake - help!!!

Hello, upvoted and resteemed your po

Regarding the calculation of reputation score, I must say the above one seems quite complicated and time-consuming one, for someone as lazy as I am. 😉

Therefore, I love the following Reputation Score Calculation Shortcut where you just have to type in your Steemit user name, press 'Enter,' and the final result would be in front of you. 😉

from my understanding, the lower your voting power goes the more votes per day you have to make to go lower because the amount used is a percentage of the remaining amount, but the recharge rate is flat 20%/day, so at a certain threshold it balances out to be the same as before anyway, with the primary difference being that you can make much larger votes at full charge and smaller accounts have more say over who gets rewarded.

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