P.S. To understand why TRB has more sustainable value than the copycoins, read the quote about money in my other comment post. The most productive people want TRB, and productivity is not defined to be Core’s creation of clusterfucked Mt. Box designs such as SegWit and Lightning Networks.

@‍traincarswreck wrote on BCT and linked to his Bitcoin’s Most Valuable Use-Case is as a digital gold settlement system for high value players in our global financial system:

_{The gold and silver money which circulates in any country, and by means of which, the produce of its land and labour is annually circulated and distributed to the proper consumers, is, in the same manner as the ready money of the dealer, all dead stock. It is a very valuable part of the capital of the country, which produces nothing to the country. The judicious operations of banking, by substituting paper in the room of a great part of this gold and silver, enable the country to convert a great part of this dead stock into active and productive stock; into stock which produces something to the country. The gold and silver money which circulates in any country may very properly be compared to a highway, which, while it circulates and carries to market all the grass and corn of the country, produces itself not a single pile of either.~Adam Smith, The Wealth of Nations}

lethos3 pontificated:

…it boils to down to keeping Bitcoin in a limited circle of people under the guise of "decentralization" ignoring advances in hardware and bandwidth…

Hey I understand you never read research. So listen up. Unlimited block scaling is incentives incompatible with a declining block reward.

aesma wrote:

The fork you're describing has as a goal to screw over millions of people. Why would those new coins be worth anything, who would put money in that shitcoin ?

SegWit is forking away from TRB, not the other way around. The Satoshi Bitcoin protocol has been consistent up until the time that some dumb users decide to start unilaterally (no consensus!) spending their transactions to P2SH, which afaik in Satoshi’s Bitcoin is a NOP.

When Gavin invented P2SH, he just decided unilaterally that he had the power to change the meaning of the protocol to create a new pay to script version number. The idiots started adding BIPs and changed the interpretation of the testnet address. These are invalid in Satoshi’s Bitcoin thus get reverted to the original owner of the BTC. Thus perhaps Core long ago forked away from TRB. I haven’t actually run a TRB client yet to find out.

Then if I am not mistaken in BIP 16, Gavin soft forked his own BIP 13 fork by declaring that the P2SH would no longer be followed by a script that contained SHA256 hash and instead enabled the 20 byte (160-bit) hash in the address to be the address of the script. So this means anyone who can crack a 160-bit RIPE hash can spend those claiming the BIP 13 rules before the BIP 16 soft fork.

Or the other way they get stolen is the P2SH is simply treated as a NOP and they revert back to original UTXO before the P2SH transaction on TRB. So in this case the miners would want to issue a lot of transactions paid with SegWit, and then go steal all those transactions back to themselves on TRB. Yet some comments at the TMSR seen to deny this and instead TRB will accept the SegWit transactions as “anyone can spend”. I haven’t invested the effort to sort out exactly what they mean and correlate it to the code. I was never much interested in the Bitcoin code.

In any case, all this P2SH crap was a fork from Satoshi’s Bitcoin so thus nothing is being stolen from those who did not run Core Trojan horse software (which includes any wallets which implement the BIPs that changed the protocol), except in the case of a massive chain reorganization as detailed below, which is in fact a risk of proof-of-work when the stupid users allow themselves to be hoodwinked into a creating a huge booty for miners to steal, which thus funds a long range chain reorganization. Bitmain is laying the bait with Bitcoin Cash.

Edit: thinking about this some more, the way for the TRB nodes to be compatible with Core fork, is to accept all SegWit transactions as literally “anyone can spend” (no need to find the solution to any 160-bit hash). So then P2SH transactions are always accepted by TRB and never validated by TRB nodes. So literally anyone could double-spend them with a chain reorganization.

I have withdrawn half my coins from polo

Only half? Poloniex is going to go belly up eventually if not sooner.

jbreher wrote:

Of course, one can convert a segwit coin back to a bitcoin by spending it to yourself in a non-segwit transaction.

Not necessarily true. If anyone can spend the SegWit transaction, then miners can in theory orphan your second spend if there are long enough range chain reorganizations. Given the SegWit booty that will start accumulating when SegWit goes live (~Aug 23), then long range change reorganizations are economically plausible.

The 100% safe option is to never accept a transaction with a SegWit history. Well if there can be long range chain reorganizations then you also should not buy any BTC once SegWit goes live (because it could be double-spent away from you) That is why I am only selling at this point BTC for fiat or altcoins (else sitting tight) until the dust settles. That no one should buy until any SegWit booty has already been stolen and no one is issuing SegWit transactions any more, is the reason I think BTC is going to crash hard in September or when ever the retards activate (En)Lightning Networks.

OH SHIT!

It is not totally implausible that those who are selling Bitcoin Cash (BCC aka BCH) for BTC, might be buying BTC from Bitmain who may end up double-spending the BTC back to themselves when they reorganize the BTC chain to steal all that plus SegWit transactions. Massive booty being piled up to finance a huge chain reorganization, possible with exchanges and others incentivized to be in on it.

I wonder if the exchanges could be complicit and then those who recently took their BTC off an exchange could also have their BTC double-spent from under them! Also against exchanges which were not complicit stealing BTC that sent onto exchanges to trade for other altcoins such as Bitcoin Cash. Mayhem!

We could have a massive amount of theft upcoming! Which would obliterate cryptocurrency for a long time. Confidence would be severely impacted. I am not fear mongering nor spreading FUD. I do not know if this will happen but I do know this is a very dangerous juncture for Bitcoin and many people are not aware of all the potential pitfalls.