Continuing my discussion with the Mexican national. I wrote:

https://www.quora.com/Is-living-in-Mexico-depressing/answer/James-Upton-6/comment/113161159

I’m intimately familiar with the sort “Latin” culture which De Ávila Gómez (https://www.quora.com/What-don-t-they-tell-you-about-Mexico/answer/De-Ávila-Gómez) summarized in his answer which you cited, because I have lived in the Philippines for most of the past 25 years. The Filipinos are the most Hispanic of the Asians and even historically received considerable influence from trade with the Mexicans. They even speak the Chavacano dialect of Spanish in Zamboanga City and the main Filipino dialects have some Spanish words such as ‘mesa’ for table, ‘kwarta’ for money, and ‘Kumusta’ (their phonetic spelling of “Como esta”) for how are you. So please do not assume I am totally ignorant of the culture. I immersed myself in it, even living in utter squalor for a couple of years back in the mid-1990s. However, as you can probably ascertain, I have rejected much of the culture and still am pulled back to my Hajnal line North, Westerner European roots with a strong emphasis on (or at least striving for) astute ideological, philosophical and evidence-based scientific reasoning.

Gomez notes Mexicans are slightly annoyed by the arrogance of Argentines. Perhaps indicates Argentina is the least Hispanic nation in Latin America which concurs with the significant Italian and German ancestry, but I need to research Brazil more. As segue to tie in my point in my prior comment about difference between Mexico and Colombia, Mexico lacks the significant African (i.e. Caribbean) demographic (which apparently makes Colombia a happier, more upbeat, less fatalistic culture) and also appears that I was correct to state that Colombia has more completely cross-pollinated (and thus economically integrated) their natives into Mestizos:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Colombia#Ethnicity

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Mexico#Afro-Mexicans

Also Colombia has reduced the proportion of their economy from drug trade to a much lower level than Mexico:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_drug_trade#Colombia's_economy

(I have learned from you. Thank you. This discussion has been useful to me in my research and evaluation of whether I will be relocating to the USA or Argentina. I considered Baja Mexico but I think our discussion clarified that I dislike Mexico’s political system and fatalistic culture too much although I may still visit as a tourist. Yet I remain open-minded if I gain some new insights into Mexico.)

Please don’t conflate the history of the corruption (e.g. Constantine’s Catholicism) of Jesus’ wisdom (i.e. what you may think Christianity is) with my points about it. Every society has a “religion” because even high I.Q. people are molded into subjectivity and mass manias by propaganda, feelings, and confirmation bias:

Dancing With The Gods

https://www.quora.com/What-is-Donald-Trumps-IQ/answer/Marc-Bodnick/comment/113153492

https://www.quora.com/What-is-Donald-Trumps-IQ/answer/Flow-Ir-In/comment/113154881

Remember “Jesus” (who/which may have been an actually living person or just an astute, contemporaneously-apropos story that had such psychological power that it became real as any other mass mania does) came to explain about that corruption, and there’s increasing evidence that he or his story was on Earth at the juncture claimed by the historical account:

My comment on Steemit

That’s my way of saying that I’m less interested in the existence of an unfalsifiable God and more interested in the wisdom of Jesus’ teachings about social organization and the implications on the plight of humanity. Refer to my comments about organization of the State and religion at the bottom my recent blog:

End of democracy and a Civil COLD War approaches

I realize you are just relating about the Mexican perspective and I am interjecting some wide ranging ideological/philosophical tangents because I am approaching this discussion not only to understand Mexico, but also to understand better the extant and potential alternative political/cultural systems (inside and outside of Mexico).

you will see that in Mexico people regards religuous arguments as moronic and nobody whom cares about he or she reputation would dare to use them, only uneducated people dares to support their viewpoints on them

The reknown scientist Freemon Dyson who purportedly has a 180 I.Q. is not uneducated and he explains why science and religion do not conflict:

Let me quote from Dyson which supports my point that all people in the world have a de facto religion:

PROGRESS IN RELIGION

For Ian Barbour, who won the Templeton Prize last year, religion is an intellectual passion. For me it is simply a part of the human condition.

Where Dyson mentions the resurgence in “green technology”, he is referring to biotech, which I mention below.

Note I disagree with Dyson’s quoted statement as follows:

If we allow a free market in human genes, wealthy parents will be able to buy what they consider superior genes for their babies. This could cause a splitting of humanity into hereditary castes. Within a few generations, the children of rich and poor could become separate species. Humanity would then have regressed all the way back to a society of masters and slaves. No matter how strongly we believe in the virtues of a free market economy, the free market must not extend to human genes.

Genetics are not that simple:

Heritability of IQ - Wikipedia

Do We Really Inherit Intelligence From Our Mothers?

Intelligence Is Inherited Only from Your Mother?

Debunking the Idea That a Kid's Intelligence Comes Mostly From Mom

Genetics and intelligence differences: five special findings

Found: more than 500 genes that are linked to intelligence

Any attempt to subvert nature’s diversity will fail. The Second Law of Thermodynamics’ inexorable trend to maximum entropy can’t be defeated. For example nature will introduce mutations or defects in any such attempts. For example the poor health plight outcome for the Ashkenazi Jews who practiced assortative mating to increase their average IQ to 115.

The institution of slavery was based on the legal right of slave-owners to buy and sell their property in a free market. Only in the nineteenth century did the abolitionist movement, with Quakers and other religious believers in the lead, succeed in establishing the principle that the free market does not extend to human bodies.

Disagree. Chattel slavery was abolished economically by the Industrial Revolution. We still have many forms of slavery in the world, such as the Income Tax.

Perhaps what you’re describing to me is that Mexicans have attempted to reject all religion in favor of pragmatic civilization that embraces man’s faults as being an unavoidable reality. And thus falling into a top-down hierarchical, wealth-makes-right-might form of political economic system. This is I guess what one would refer to as Libertarian where any decentralization is achieved in a natural free market where (i.e. impeded and interfered with by) the wealthy normally dominate (unless perhaps some future decentralization technology such as blockchains can undermine the power-law distribution) due to the inviolable power-law distribution of resources. The analogous Political Economics reality exists in every culture and nation regardless of the degree of “democracy” and ideological delusion that the people appear to have:

Some Iron Laws of Political Economics

So perhaps you’re describing to me that Mexicans reject (to some greater extent) the ideological mayonnaise and sugar coating on top of the underlying political economic realities?

I am not arguing that Western democracy is always superior to political systems that are more overtly hierarchical. What seems to happen is that Westerners are very productive when they are in the stage of civilization development composed significantly of decentralized manorialism, but then as this metastasizes into heavy governance, it turns into decadence and finally collapse into Marxist hell such as the Wiemar Republic and Nazi Germany.

We appear to be heading into an epoch where China’s top-down governance will be more effective than the highly decadence Western democracies. This is an indictment of the abject, end-of-cycle decadence of the latter, not any stellar virtues of the former.

Turning my attention to Hofstede’s insights, indeed pagan Indulgence and fatalism may be the “religion” of Hispanic cultures:

Human sacrifice in Aztec culture - Wikipedia

And noting the tradeoffs of Portugal also seem not desirable to me compared to rural USA:

14 Downsides to Living in Portugal

The Spanish bled the entire American continent of gold and then spent it all on extravagance and partying and fell back from an Empire to a Third World nation. I see the same fault and lack of Weberian restraint virtues in all Hispanic cultures. Again it seems to be a feature of the hospitable climates without a harsh Winter. The political economic situation metastasizes because the people are chasing Indulgence while the kingpins extract all the wealth and waste it on top-down hierarchy and corruption.

(If ‘pagan’ is derogatory, then perhaps you can refute the origins or suggest to me a more apropos adjective)

Jesus’s teaching of Christianity is about restraint and self-discipline. Please don’t conflate this with other notions you may have about religion which are antithetical examples of my point of mentioning Jesus. So yeah the Hispanics embraced corrupted, co-opted non-Christianity named Catholicism, and now they reject Catholicism to maintain/return to pagan Indulgence. Significantly explains why these societies will eventually collapse (and again my point is Mexico would have collapsed in warlordism chaos had they not had the benefits of being on the border with such a productive nation as the USA once was). And then most Westerners have also either entered into corruptions of Jesus’ teachings (e.g. most organized religions, especially those which are non-profit, tax deductible corporations) or atheism or other religions. I would not however advocate a large centralized government which enforces religion, which means I must reject all large centralized government because they all embrace any convenient “religion” du jour which fools the people-at-large, e.g. we have the Leftist Singularity feminism, anthropogenic climate change and other such religious hoax mass manias in the West now.

Hofstede’s insights about the lack of individualism and too much stuck in hierarchy, social heritage, and family clan is another nail in the coffin for Mexico’s ability to compete in economic paradigms that require innovation (e.g. software, robotics, and biotech) through widespread network effects gained via high social trust and cooperation. Top-down organization lacks the power of decentralized structures. But decentralization requires high-trust (or permissionless systems such as blockchains) for cooperation.

As you noted, Northeast Asians at least lack some/most of the Indulgence and thus are very competitive in terms of productivity with the Northwest Europeans, except not in the area of capital formation and innovation because of their tendency to top-down hierarchies which are inherently wasteful and corrupting as I explained to you in my prior comment. The only reason China has an opening to potentially rise to the dominant superpower now is because the West is so end-of-cycle decadent with most of the Westerners losing Jesus’ teachings and values. And instead they have replaced that religion with the loony Left Singularity and right fundamentalist corruptions. The fundamentalists want to regulate morality with a large centralized government (and if they do not then why are they paying unconstitutional taxes and demanding their churches to be non-profit, tax deductible corruptions and thus empowering that centralized government Beast). The Bible clearly states the wisdom that the judgement of morality can not be objectively made by man. True Christians focus on their own morality, not trying to enslave others in their preferred morality. Every human must have their own free will otherwise we don’t exist:

https://steemit.com/philosophy/@anonymint/pz6677

https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-extremely-difficult-genius-level-160-IQ-questions/answer/Alistair-Riddoch-1/comment/112707807

While it may be true that the political-economic hierarchy can punish an individual for cheating to such an extent that most don’t dare repeat (although the criminal mind will always repeat and is not concerned about the risk), new children are born every day. And they will have to punished anew, because the culture remains one of cheating. And just because the person stops cheating against the powerful, they might continue cheating against anyone else, such as the various schemes they use to trick foreigners into overpaying for services. It’s cultural and as you noted, it is funny for them. I remember observing Filipinos laugh at people slipping on mud in the road and being covered with mud and doing absolutely nothing to help the person. This was back when there was more poverty, less education, and more rural feel to the country. Seems that has diminished in the cities. As your citation states, who a person is differs a lot depending if they are raised in city or certain cultural area. This is the same in the USA also (and was more the case before the advent of the Internet).

So while you conclusion “defecting on the collective and thus in some sense defecting on each other” might be true if our values were the same than the USA’s, in reality this only is a mild annoyance that resemblels more a teenanger trying to hide the fact that is smoking from his parents than a conspiracy to overthrow the system.

Once again I think my abstract mode of communication causes misunderstandings. I did not intend to imply that the defection of the common folks (as opposed to high social trust cooperation enabling Hofstede’s individualism) itself leads to the common folks directly overthrowing the hierarchy. My internal thought process (which I sort of implied in the context) is that by defecting on each other, the low-trust, highly centralized/stagnant society and thus the government is weakened relative to for example the future potential of organized cartels and to external economic competition/change such as technological innovation and monetary system change/chaos.