The Bitcoin big blocks farce is becoming a laugh.steemCreated with Sketch.

in #bitcoin7 years ago

Target at least 12.675 transactions per second.

That is about 400.000.000.000 financial transactions per year, for starters to compete.

We Nakamoto Satoshi use CPUs.

After reading the enormo... 9 pages short Bitcoin whitepaper, again, after a couple of years, it looks more like it is just offering an idea. Like WE Nakamoto Satoshi wanted to state: "Here are the basics, go for it, innovate and develope blockchains." It was a proposal, a possible solution to challenges the tradional financial services has to deal with. And the rest it all myth, people calling themselves purists, explaining what they believe THEM Nakamoto Satoshi ment. That could write complete books for you, create hours of vodcasts/ podcasts and fill up the entire Steem blockchain. According to the whitepaper the current Bitcoin blockchain size would have to be around 43 GigaByte. That seems to be at a 140 GB at the time of writing.

Nowhere it states that Bitcoin, as proposed in the whitepaper, is supposed to replace the current financial system. Nor does it state that is has to stay pure, whatever that may mean. It is a proposal, as far as I can see. And Adam Back was part of the WE Nakamoto Satoshi group, I believe. Originally designing Proof Of Work {POW} for Hashcash in 1997, currently active in the Bitcoin Core developement. And I know there are investment groups involved with BTC, but that brought Bitcoin into orbit. Yes, the orginal Bitcoin, with SegWit, has satellites in orbit, to provide the blockchain even if no internet is available. Yet, nowhere it states that there shall only be 21 million BTC ever. Or any other do's and dont's, it is just not there in the whitepaper. All it will provide is a suggestion for an electronic payment system based on cryptographic proof. As a solution for the current financial institutions? Well, it looks like that in the whitepaper.

The numbers and figures matter.

First of all I know I am using the name of WE Nakamoto Satoshi with last name first. That is the way it is done in the far east, family name first. Anyway, back to the Bitcoin idea as it was written in the original whitepaper like: "...In this paper, we propose a solution..." Bitcoin, the software, is Free and Open Source. And the setup is indeed very basic. With the conclusion that with the build in consensus methode any rules and incentives could be enforced. Like SegWit for instance? Yes, because it is an Open system. Even bigger blocks? Yes, even bigger blocks. Well, at the same blockchain, I would state, but even that can be changed by consensus. But does it make sense to get those bigger blocks in? On average there are 3 transactions per second for Bitcoin, the original blockchain, with the BTC token. This is with a blocksize limit of 1 MB, altough it is not really one MegaByte. But that is a binary discussion for another time. SegWit could quadruple this to about 12 tx/p/s.

Wait a second...!!! Even with blocksizes of 8 or 16, or 20, it is just: 24, 48 or 60 transactions per second! With that 2 MB SegWit forking clone b2x only going for 6... Come on now, there is no such rubbish in the whitepaper. And as this is all about mathematics solving challenges for the financial industry, than even 60 transactions per second is still a laugh! It only makes the blockchain bigger, while not solving anything. Therefore Bitcoin can not ever be the peoples money. Nowhere in the whitepaper it says so. Now who did come up with that anyway. It can be used for large amounts of value, to securely move from one address to another, and that is already something. But it looks like it is a storage of value, in the first place. If it were to be used at all. But it would need innovation, horizontal wise, not vertical, meaning just increasing the blocksize. Even with an optimistic Moore's law, just forget it.

But, for sake of mathematical proof, it is possible to calculate how big the blocks would need to be to replace the whole financial system. At least 12.675 transactions per second are needed to make Bitcoin the alternative. Just bigger blocks, that would mean 12.675/3 (the current average tx/p/s) = 4225 times bigger blocks. Or about 4 GigaByte blocks per 10 minutes. Now hash that for a while... Per hour that is 6 x 4 GB = 24 GB blockchainsize growth. That is half a TeraByte harddrive per day in growth. Who could possibly make that happen? Not to mention the extreme fast internet connection that would be needed to move these enormous 4 GB blocks around the Peer To Peer {P2P} network. Hashing 4GB blocks, that would need some quite expensive ASIC hardware. Well, to those who think big blocks are needed, it is all there in the mathematics. And it is quite simple.

BTC for big value and extended by sidechains.

While I saw bgold appear in my Coinomi wallet, I noticed it was still stuck at the block where it forking cloned the orginal Bitcoin blockchain. Ah well, free Cryptos again, a chance for me to buy more BTC with it, restore the value there. Hopefully I was able to prove with arguments that can be checked by doing the math that the big blocks idea can not really be taken seriously. At some point I really would want it to be that simple, but it is not. Bitcoin {BTC}, the peoples money, forget it, not like it is right now. And it can only start to be an alternative to the current financial system if it can do 12.675 transactions per second, at least. Now going from 3 to 12.675 is quite a quantum leap. Needing 4 GB ten minute blocks. And the network with the hardware to cope with that. To me it is very improbable that it will be able to.

Vertical expansion, meaning bigger blocks, is out of the question. Things might open up though with horizontal expansion, in short meaning: sidechains. Where the mainchain does all the big number transactions at a steady 10 minute pace and sidechains take a different approach, that takes less space per transaction and pumps them out every 3 seconds, secured by DPOS. Bitshares already proved that it is much more suitable for doing those 12.675 transactions per second, just like Steem and EOS will blast even further because it was build to scale horizontally. At current affairs Bitshares does 3333 transactions per second. Still not passing 12.675, but it already could handle the debit- and creditcard transactions, just like Steem could. And way cheaper than VISA and Mastercard. Especially Steem, that charges not transaction costs at all. Still you need enough Steem Power {SP} to get the needed bandwidth.

Bitshares and Steem do beat the Bitcoin and Ethereum network combined on their own. And EOS will make them look pale, becoming the blockchain technology that can actually do 12.675 transactions per second and more, with no sweat. But that is future music. Just making it clear that the technology is already here, for a major part and it this article is written on one of them, known as the Steem blockchain. And with SegWit, Bitcoin {BTC}, the original one, could do sidechains, to do TIPS, extremely cheap, even cheaper than DOGE. While another sidechain could do high speed transactions for debit- and credit cards. This to me is the way to go for Bitcoin. And that means SegWit, connecting to other SegWit supporting cryptos. Innovation, as is common in the Free and Open Source realm. Horizontal developement, that is going to be more decentralized.

But hey, with Bitshares and Steem this is not new to you and me at all. Already at high speed of 1111 times faster than Bitcoin. Here we do blocks like 3-2-1-DONE...

Have a great one!



Resources:


From the Bitcoin whitepaper: "...In this paper, we propose a solution..."
bitcoin-tombark_cc0.jpg
Image CC0 licensed by Tom Bark as released at Pixabay.

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I believe BTC should just be a high store of value. If cost per transaction run up, it will only be used for high value transactions. Micro or nano transactions could be settled in Steem or other low cost blockchains!

I also use BTC simply as a store of value. However, the Lightning Network may help lower transaction fees for people wanting to use BTC or Saotoshis on a daily basis for currency

Yes, I do agree with the high store of value. And if they must, sidechains can open a whole new realm of small transactions and so on. But indeed, Steem already covers the cheap and fast section.

You may be interested in reading this:

https://theflippening.github.io/open-letter-to-bitcoin-miners-from-another-miner/

Make of it what you want, still trying to wrap my head around the possibility myself.

Good luck!

Thank you for sharing. Will dive into that too. Already was investigating. Starting all over with the Bitcoin Whitepaper. Interesting food for thought and posting.

Seen things like: "...almost certain that..." getting used as arguments that Lightning Network could be patented. But no proof that it is. While that is being presented for bcash support. Now that makes me sceptical. As I did not find proof to support that claim.

And it is hard to get ones head around it all. That is why I started again from the root, the Bitcoin Whitepaper.

One of the references talks about the lighting network being imposible to be maintained peer2peer. Needing massive hubs instead.
Make sure you Reed the reverences! It's worth the time.

Will read as much as possible, all in good time.

The article referred to is so filled with wrong assumptions and misinformation that I could not bare read on.

It looks to me like a bcash propaganda piece. No apoarant knowledge of the Bitcoin Whitepaper.

Replacing Fiat, for instance, that claim is improbable. As I did my best to explain in my post. Again I refer to the Bitcoin Whitepaper, it is all there.

Most Lightning Network transactions are done off chain. Although more transactions will ask more from any P2P network. That is why just going for big blocks won't solve anything. If will just constipate the network.

LN claims to be able to do millions to billions of transactions per second off-chain, at low fees, transferring even 1 cent of value.

The main bitcoin blockchain is still very important for locking in and out using Smart-Contracts. And finalizing transactions in blocks, just like normal.

Most of the LN transactions will be outside the Bitcoin network.

There is a lot of documentation, also open in addressing risks.
http://lightning.network/

Will have a look into it later. Now time gor my daily walk.

Thanks it was cold but nice.

Steem have the fastest blockchain in the Cryptoworld!
There is a big future !!

It beats Bitcoin and Ethereum combined, hands down!
And with Smart Media Tokens it is going to shake up things quite a lot in 2018.

No hands down simply Thumbs up!

Congratulations to all who are already here to start a great future

so you think that steem can get bigger than bitcoin? or do i see that wrong ?

Steem can handle huge amounts of transactions per second way better than Bitcoin. When it comes to the blocksize discussion only. But when there are going to be sidechains developed for Bitcoin, with SegWit, than it becomes a different story.

It is tough to compete with Bitcoin I think. Even if Steem is handling transactions better, faster and in huge amounts. In theory it is outpacing Bitcoin in many ways. But it has not the same impact. Bitcoin has the the name, that is tough to beat.

I'm writing a series on that one, stay tuned! :-)

@oaldamster I'm a techie as well, yet a crypto enthusiast for just a month or so. (You can't be an innovator on everything at once, can you? I'm in the game now though! ;-) ).
Could you explain to me - in technical terms if possible - or point me towards an in-depth piece of content, HOW steemit is so much more able to process high transaction volumes as compared to BTC's current implementation? I really want to get into the nitty-gritty tech aspects of crypto to understand which assets are and which are not valuable from a technical perspective (hence anticipating on future values of individual crypto assets).

You could try the Steem bluepaper: https://steem.io/steem-bluepaper.pdf . And the Bitshares documentation online: http://docs.bitshares.org/

I Liked your post, thanks for sharing

Wow, you read fast.

We like you too @mdo!

Love to read your ppst..

Thanks, what do you think of the big blocks issue?

And what's your stance on SegWit and sidechains @shagorshikder ?

Another nice post.. thanks

It is my pleasure.

Wow, you really liked it? I want to know WHY you liked it, WHAT you like @sikuza! And you mention "another", well, which other posts of @oaldamster did you like as well then? (And you guessed it already: WHY that other post???)

Hiya @oaldamster , off-topic (somewhat): I think it's Satoshi Nakamoto (the other way around, Satoshi is his / hers / their first name! :P )

First of all I know I am using the name of WE Nakamoto Satoshi with last name first. That is the way it is done in the far east, family name first

Had it in there why. ;-)

I understand that, but I've good reasons to suspect Satoshi isn't from the East at all ;-)

That is why they wrote it the wrong way round. And not many individuals speak of themselves as we. It is a cryptographic puzzle I think.

I see, you are indeed correct! The Bitcoin PDF mentions "We propose a solution to the double-spending problem using a peer-to-peer network." in the abstract paragraph even!

It is being used all through the document. Interesting read overall.

Hahaha @oaldamster, you have 14 upvotes on your comment ^^^ above :P
I did read your whole article btw before I commented, but I was more or less commenting on your previous posts in which you did not explain using Nakamoto as a first name. Still I don't understand why you think we should use the Far East's way of naming the surname first...

Using the #eSteem app comes with certain advantages. ;-) ...

Writing it like Nakamoto Satoshi is the way I choose too. Others are free to do it in their own prefered way.

Partly the reason for me would be that the name is not connected to a person of Asian origin.

In my post I can do it like I did, to emphasize this. And then move on in a conversation about it.

Pointing out to the plural use in relation to the name, all througout the whitepaper.

To me that could be that the name itself is a crypthographic key. And the whitepaper contains more than meets the eye.

You are free to use the name in any way you want. :-)

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