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RE: Should the Amount of Basic Income Vary With Cost of Living Differences?

in #basicincome7 years ago

A "crowdfunded basic income" is called a salary, paid for by people who believe that you create value for them

And that's where the whole argument for basic income (socialism with a newspeak name) falls apart. Paying people to NOT create value is how innovation and creation dies. Anyone that CAN self actualize does it already.

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It never fails to amuse me the way people use the word socialism as an insult. As a sociologist who has supported socialism all my life I fail to see what the problem is. Socialism is simply the recognition that all humans are born and die the same, have the same rights and responsibilities, hopes and dreams.

As for your point that Basic income pays people not to create value, that significantly depends on how you see value. Personally I see value in caring for your children yourself instead of paying others to do it. I see value in enjoying a long walk on the beach, perhaps sharing a smile and a "good morning" with those I pass. I see value in learning something new, or in sharing my knowledge with others in a community class. If none of these things were considered as creating value, then those who have retired are no longer of value to society and that is fundamentally wrong.

As for your last sentence that anyone that can self actualize does it already - that is also incorrect. Maslow's hierarchy recognized that while we do work on many levels at once, our focus tends to be drawn regularly to the lower level needs first. A man cannot contemplate the mysteries of the universe while searching for his next meal or a dry place to sleep. People need food and shelter security before they can worry about self actualizing, and while it is surprisingly common for certain groups (those who have grown up with opportunity or privilege at their fingertips) to believe that anyone can "do better" if they really want to, the reality is as vastly different. Those who are female, black, disabled or disfigured for example have less opportunity simply because of prejudices. Yes, in a perfect world everyone would have the same opportunity, but this is far from a perfect world. The idea behind basic income is to make the world a little bit more perfect by ensuring everyone's basic needs can be met so they are more free to pursue the higher order needs and wants and perhaps even follow a dream or two.

Socialism is mob theft with violence for noncompliance. It's immoral. It's an insult because it's a bad thing.

Anyone that has the capability to self-actualize has the ability to move up Maslows hierarchy without outside assistance.

Today, even a person in the ghetto lives better than the Crowleys of Downton Abbey. Better nutrition, air conditioning and access to all the world's information on a tiny device. And yet, look at all the fantastic innovation coming out of inner city America! /sarc

In the past great men still innovated, despite the fact that they were a few rungs down on the famous Pyramid. Where were they on Maslow's hierarchy? Yet, they still achieved greatness.

Did you live in Socialism or something like it? Communism? Because what you read in the books it is an utopy, Socialism, Communism and all this was just crap sold by Marx and company to distract the people to look for real solutions... Just saying... Someone who have live in a Socia-Commu-Fidelist country and know how it is in reality... it is not Erewhon.

What I have is not a salary, because it carries no work condition. No hours of my time are required.

As for the absurd notion that basic income is socialism, you may as well call Milton Friedman and Friedrich Hayek both socialists for supporting the idea, which if you know who they were, is one of the dumber things you could say.

So then you need to ask yourself, why did two of the greatest free market economists of the 20th century support basic income? And as soon as you ask that question, that's when you can start actually studying the idea and its merits instead of thinking it's something it isn't and just shutting off your brain to the discussion.

The closest thing in the world to universal basic income is in Alaska. It's a red state but Republican red not communist red. Everyone there gets a check every year for being a resident of Alaska. It's not paying them to not create value. Innovation has not died in Alaska. In fact the opposite is true. The dividend checks are good for business, for both business owners and consumers. Why? Because money is capital and also fuel for markets.

The above understanding is also confirmed by UBI pilots and unconditional cash transfer studies. Everywhere it's tried, people use the money to start up more businesses and self-employ themselves. It stimulates local economies. Look into the evidence for yourself.

There's a lot out there. Take some time to study it. You'll likely be surprised by what you find.

"no work condition. No hours of my time are required."

Guess what, if you work for the government, you can collect a salary with no work condition and no hours of required time as well! In some ways we already have a basic income, it's called the GS schedule, and wow, look at the boom in the Washington DC metro area!

The problem, of course is that boom is funded on the backs of the American taxpayers all throughout this nation. And someday, that bill will come due.

You are being disingenuous to Milton Friedman. He did propose a Basic Income, but to replace welfare spending because it was more efficient.

It was a concession, not something he fully endorsed.

Alaska is hardly a hotbed for technological development, and the oil dividend mostly goes to offset the higher cost of living.

Your comparison to government work shows you still don't get it. Government work requires people show up to government offices. Yes, much of it is bullshit, but it requires hours of time, even if people are pretending to do something else instead of engaging in the inspecting of inspectors inspecting inspectors. Basic income requires no time. It is an income floor. You can use it to do anything, and that includes whatever job you want or any volunteering you want.

Milton Friedman's reasoning was reality-based. In his own words:

I favor the negative income tax because it would be vastly superior to our present guaranteed annual income. It would cost much less, give more help to the truly poor, avoid interference with personal freedom, preserve some incentives to work, and drastically reduce the present bureaucracy.

If we lived in a hypothetical world in which there were no governmental welfare programs at all and in which all assistance to the destitute was by private charity, the case for introducing a negative income tax would be far weaker than the case for substituting it for present programs. For such a world, I might very well not favor it. But, whether desirable or not, that is not our world and there is not the remotest chance that it will be in the foreseeable future.

Reality exists. There is no reality where we get rid of all taxes and eliminate government. If you choose to live in reality, you therefore need to come up with something realistic. Basic income is that something. If we are going to redistribute income, we should do it in a way that minimizes government intrusion and maximizes freedom.

The welfare system is a shitty system. By targeting assistance we incentivize what it is we don't want. We don't want people not to work, so we give them money only if they aren't working? It's ridiculous. By doing that we are paying people to do nothing, and in fact essentially forcing them to do so, by promising to remove their assistance if they accept employment. This is equivalent to applying tax rates of 80% and above to welfare recipients.

Does that make sense to you? I hope not. It's called the welfare trap. So how do we get rid of it? We either eliminate welfare entirely, and in the process massively increase poverty, and along with it what we spend on things like crime and healthcare as a result, or we provide a floor for everyone, such that all earned income adds to that floor. With basic income, all employment increases one's total income. With welfare, employment can actually decrease one's total income via welfare cliffs.

This again is why Milton Friedman supported basic income, because he knew what welfare does to people and the economy by design, and knew the only way out of it, the only realistic way, because eliminating all government assistance programs is not realistic, is basic income.

“I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.”

― Stephen Jay Gould

Economic hardship limits one's ability to achieve one's full potential.

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