Connecting Steemit, scientific research and academia?

in #academia8 years ago (edited)

Hello Steemians,

During the last few days, I have read and answered to a couple of posts discussing research, academia and Steemit

[image credit: twimg]

See for instance here, here and there. In addition, I have heard about the pevo project (whose white paper is here) from both my brother-in-law @cryptoctopus and @coinbitgold . After thinking a couple of nights about that, I decide to write this post that collects my thoughts (and may cause ripples in the waters as well, as I disagree with a few arguments already stated several times): What could Steemit do for research?


[image credit: flyingfishonline]

Steemit funding research?

In a few posts, one has several times suggested that steemit could fund academic research. Although this idea is lovely, it is in my opinion not entirely viable. That is true that one of the greatest pain we have, as researchers, is to write proposals to get travel grants, money for hiring postdocs and PhD students and therefore build a research team.

I am at the moment quite convinced that Steemit cannot help for hirings. It is sufficient to check how much SBD are collected by typical scientific posts and how much money is needed to hire non-tenured researchers. Typical PhD salaries are of about 2 kEUR (or 2 kUSD) a month (including taxes that must be paid to the state) and postdoc ones are higher, sometimes reaching 5kEUR or 5kUSD a month. And when someone is hired, it must be at least for two years... You cannot ask someone to move to another place (sometimes to another country) for a few months (that is not humanly great and no one will usually accept). The maths do the rest.

Now, one thing for which I believe Steemit could bring a valuable help for research is connected to small-scale specific needs of a couple of thousands of EUR (or USD). Such an amount of money can definitely be gathered from upvotes issued from one single post. I guess that the point that should be clarified is really what a scientist can do with such a money. A lot! For instance, it could be used as a travel grant for a single researcher, who could be possibly independent and not connected to the research community (and then use the money to become connected), as support money to organize some workshop or event on a dedicated topic, or to develop the scientific activities around one given research group or institute. etc., etc., etc. The benefits for Steemit would be to attract more experts from the scientific community that could then post, e.g., threads related to science outreach or be involved in what is discussed below.

Although this sounds cool, one clear issue is that any scientific funding originating from upvotes will be disconnected from the opinion of the scientific experts. What I call expert is someone that acquired some knowledge about a field and that is recognized by his/her peers through the quality of his/her work. There is nothing related to politics or friendship. We need experts. Let us assume for a minute that we do not care about expert opinions. In this case, popular topics will always win, even if the scientific content is questionable. And science is not sensationalism. Some reviewing system is desired. It is not because something is boring that it does not deserve to be studied and that it may not be the key to awesome discoveries later. Although we are not able to tell anything about the future, scientific experts are the only ones that can judge that the boring stuff is interesting with respect to the current state-of-the-art or why this boring stuff can help in going beyond the actual limitations. While everyone can probably tell why this or that idea seems interesting or cool, only experts can demonstrate whether this is viable or really interesting.

The naive way would be to create some scientific board that will contact experts that will write reports that will be read by the board that will take the decisions. And we are back to how the system currently works! If one wants something different and maintain scientific quality, one needs novel ideas (that I do not have at the moment).

To summarize, I think that the Steemit way could already help scientific research. Not on the hiring level, but on the more local side. The pending question being how to judge what deserves being supported and what is good science.

[image credit: Mario Barbatti]

Publications?

Do we still need scientific journals? Let me take my field (theoretical particle physics) as an example (that is the example I actually know). When a publication is written, it is first submitted to a platform named arxiv where anyone with an account can submit a paper. The only requirement is that one should be endorsed. Being endorsed means that you have a kind of godfather or godmother who validates your reputation. Nothing too crazy...

Those arxiv papers are searchable by titles, authors, etc., either directly on the arxiv website or via Inspire where the search engine is very developed. And they can be downloaded for free. In short, one have a way to store all scientific papers on a platform where they are available for free to all the community and actually anyone with an internet connection. And the arxiv is now also there for other fields (see the arxiv main page).

However, a paper on the arxiv does not mean that the science in there is correct. The only way to carry a conclusive statement here is peer-reviewing. Within the current system, this is where scientific journals (and their outrageous costs) come in. They have editors (are they paid? This I do not know.) who choose one or more referees (that are usually not paid) that will accept or reject the paper, or ask for clarifications and/or modifications. Scientific quality must be connected to peer-reviewing. Upvotes cannot and should not replace it. And we are back to the issue already raised above. What the general public thinks is one thing, but the general public should not enter into the process of deciding what is good or bad quality science. We need specialists and experts for that.

One exception, still related to my field: JHEP, the Journal of High Energy Physics. This journal is run entirely over the web (there is thus no paper version and the publications are distributed electronically), it is free, and it has today one of the largest impact factor of all journals of my field. In addition, reviewers are paid for their work (again, I do not know for the editors).

Therefore, there are ways to get rid of the usual publisher’s company (and I provided working examples above), but peer-reviewing must be guaranteed. Other mechanisms such as upvotes by the general audience should not enter in the process of decision. Something that sounds cool, interesting or that seems to have a great potential for the mankind may be a mirage, and this can sometimes only be clarified by experts.

[image credit: pevo]

Pevo running on steem?

It is not clear to me how the pevo project is connected to this. My impression is that it shares a lot with the working examples that I have mentioned above. One crucial point not raised enough in my opinion is that scientists are generally not looking for money for themselves (remember that private companies pay way more than academia so that those who have chosen to stay in the academic system are not those looking after money): recognition from peers plays the most important role. This should be part of any system to wants to revolutionize academia (and this seems to be missing up to now).

The novelty I like with the pevo proposal is the connection with the general public. But this also has to be thought deeply. Scientific articles as such are usually not readable by the crowds, and the crowds should not decide about good and bad science.

Voila! I hope you enjoyed reading my thoughts. At least, I enjoyed writing them :)

Cheers,

Benjamin

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Hello Benjamin,

welcome to Steemit, and thanks for sharing your thoughts.

I'm not sure how you got the impression that monetary rewards would play a role in #pevo. In fact, the whitepaper even states that they won't.

The author of a post is rewarded by the Steem blockchain, proportional to the amount of votes she received from the public compared to all the other votes that were cast on Steem during a certain period of time. Because of the heterogeneity of the communities using Steem it cannot be expected to become a great source of income for single users, but it certainly will add to the incentives to use the platform.

It's all about reviews and peers. Think of it as a decentralized arXiv with review (comment) and versioning capabilities. Only accredited scientists will have a voice. The public can participate on Steemit, but the Pevo interface will filter "unknown" users.

I would be happy to talk with you directly, and maybe we can even get you interested in working on the remaining issues (with others)? The verification/accreditation procedure and the reputation algorithm need a lot of input from people actively involved in the process, our goal is to fund an advisory board consisting of different faculties.

Our dedicated chat is located at https://chat.pevo.science
Hope to see you there,

Michael

Hi Michael,

Thanks for the clarifications. My impression was wrong about the money. I read the white paper maybe a little bit too fast.

Concerning peer-reviewing and comments, it may be good to maintain these two separate. The reason is simple. I may have a couple of comments and questions on a paper and will thus write two-three lines as an answer to the post. Now, if I need to review a paper, I will most probably write several pages of comments (my longer review was 10-pages long... and was about a ~40 pages paper).

I will try to show myself on the chat and take part to live discussions. Note however that I am currently in vacation and not too connected (at least less than usually). Moreover, I am leaving in the GMT+1 zone.

Cheers,

Benjamin

Yes, reviews and comments will need to be handled differently of course.

The whitepaper is tightly packed, my main goal was to keep it short with a high information density. I start to get the feeling that I went a bit too far with that.

We're spread over several timezones, so discussions happen in slices anyway. I'm in Germany, so we shouldn't have problems to meet, just send me a direct message when you're there!

These are very valid points. I would personally not be able to tell if your scientific paper is good or garbage because I do not have the knowledge required to make that distinction.

I think it could be interesting to use the mechanism of Steem but on a more "close" system. If, there were high requirements in order to join coupled with compartmentalization, peers could "curate" a topic, respond to it point out issues with the research, etc. Maybe upvote would play as big a part than valid comments who are upvoted. There are a lot of different way the algorithm could work.

The trap is to fall into sensationalizing science when sometime the most important stuff is the kind of research the majority of people find unreadable and boring.

I definitely agree! One needs a pool of experts of a given field to get a chance the control the content. But ho to attract them here (for work)?

This is a perfect market for Steem. Academics are paid in reputation generally and don't have a clear way to monetize. Here a good research paper or even proposal is likely to be rewarded. I am not sure we have the critical mass of authors yet. That will take time. However disciplines of interest to the 50k steemians should get traction now.

That's exactly one of the point I was trying to make with my post. The 50k steemians may be interested by very specific ideas or research fields, and then upvote those. However, how can it be judged by those 50k people that the scientific content of the proposals is good science?

Steem could help academics, but maybe in a slightly different way? Peer-reviewed is important, IMO.

I am hopeful that the Steemit platform will have discrete categories, as funding research would be difficult in the website's current state. I also am not entirely positive that publishing papers on Steemit will be widely received or accepted by administrators. Even bePress is barely being given notice, and this repository is specifically built with academic research in mind with the added benefit of peer-review built in the system (if you pay for it) . But funding research proposals is definitely a possibility. A revolution in funding is necessary, especially for many cash-strapped organizations and the competition in grants.

I also am not entirely positive that publishing papers on Steemit will be widely received or accepted by administrators

... and by academic people as well. Habits are difficult to change :)

One major problem with the platform for publishing academic papers is that it would be difficult to address impact. A tracking mechanism would need to be created to track citations forward and backwards, a la Citation Reports or Google Citations

Check the inspire link I am mentioning in my post. It does all of this (assuming a database with papers exists) :)

Thanks for this assessment. I agree with all the constraints you were mentioning. At this stage Steemit can neither provide sufficient funding to actually conduct research, nor are there enough scientists in the community to serve as experts or peer-reviewers in the numerous scientific disciplines. However, I believe that these constraints are not fundamental but related to the current scale of our community. If Zuckerberg would want to start funding, evaluating and publishing scientific research using Facebook he actually could do this. So Steemit could do it as well, it´s "just" that we would need a few hundred million more users. Just a matter of time, no? ;-)

I agree. One needs a pool of scientific users first :)

Thanks Benjamin for sharing your precious thoughts.
A few clarifications that i would like to make:

  • For my post on how i am moving my phd to steemit, it is more on how i can fund my independent research which was my phd research. I had a scholarship and stipend. Without the scholarship, this means that i lose access to university electronic library and the journal papers database.

  • That post was also on increasing awareness of this academic issue which is common at least in my field of life cycle assessment and environmental management related journals. (like reviewers are not paid and how researchers in other developing countries are finding it difficult to get the relevant papers).

And yes, please join us in the chat if you can. Would love to have your inputs :-)

Celia

Hi Celia (now I know your name ^^ )

I will definitely join the chat (I just cannot tell when for the next two weeks) and share my ideas.

I think that the issue with the publications will change. And a Steem-funded platform could be a way (connected
to an arxiv-like database).

Since you have signed off yours in the reply, i see a need to sign off with mine. :-)
Yes, i checked out arxiv. a pity that that they do not have environmental-related articles.

I do not know how the arxiv works internally, but maybe could you contact their administrative team and ask them?

Good afternoon. Your article is very useful. I voted for you.

I am a bit worried about the idea that you always need experts in the field to determine if a research project is worthwhile. The researcher should be able to explain in clear terms what the benefit would be of performing the proposed research. Society should have a say in the research getting funded. In my opinion in a couple of years steemit might become a place for vetting research proposals by a diverse cross section of the population.
The strength of steemit is the versatility of the people it attracts. This might create cross-linking between specialties/researchers not explored/thought off before. In this light the pevo proposal starts to sound a bit too much like the existing situation with only accredited scientist having a voice. In my opinion this will likely result in dampened creativity and hampers the development of new research ideas.

Hi,

Sometimes, you need to be aware of the state-of-the-art of a field, and without knowing exactly all the details, it is hard to judge whether a research proposal is real new stuff or just garbage. Popularizing science is one thing. And I actually love doing that, as many researchers. Writing research proposal is a complex task and technical details cannot be bypassed, or summarized in simple words.

Society should have a say in the research getting funded.

It actually has something to say. For each cent one gets, a report must often be written to the funding agency that will judge about the correct usage of the fundings.

In this light the pevo proposal starts to sound a bit too much like the existing situation with only accredited scientist having a voice. In my opinion this will likely result in dampened creativity and hampers the development of new research ideas.

To me, the Pevo proposal may give a unique chance to divulgation, in addition to the pure scientific piece.

Hello,

I am not saying steemit should be the platform to decide whether someone gets funding or not. Although it would be fun if it could fund small sub-investigations in ongoing work. It could however be a platform to discuss research plans and elicit new input from other researchers/"the public".
I myself am involved in medicine and translational research and in our field it is common practice, and it gets more important each year, to involve patient perspective in research proposals. This patient perspective is also expected in the most basic laboratory research plans. Of course this is on the level of cells and proteins and not quarks, but still....

Of course funding agencies look at the proposals before funding (would be great if they wouldn't have to though...) however in my world the people in the boards are often the same people who do the research.
I myself would like to get new insights/ideas from the community who are not wrapped up in it like I am and might think out of the box. In addition it might be yet another way to appease the funding boards ;).

I guess I agree with your stance on the Pevo proposal :) Let's see where all this new energy leads us.

It could however be a platform to discuss research plans and elicit new input from other researchers/"the public".

I fully agree with this. Discussions are never hurting.

Of course funding agencies look at the proposals before funding (would be great if they wouldn't have to though...) however in my world the people in the boards are often the same people who do the research.

Isn't it possible to find competitors working on very similar topics so that we could have (roughly) the two extremes taking decisions?

Great points. Part of funding is that there is a need or gap in the research that your research addresses. A platform like Steemit has no mechanisms in place to weed old stuff from new stuff, and in order for people to even review the literature, they need access to the major expensive databases.

Some of those database are free and hopefully more will be free in the future. To me, the real question is what can be understood by anyone of the field from those databases.

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