Bid Bots and the Need for Usefulness
Hi Everyone,
You may have seen me in my Tutorial Posts on SQL or C#; or you may have read my Poetry or Stories; or perhaps you know me from my Crypto Journey posts that I may or may not return to (possibly depending on whether Bittrex can return my stolen Cryptocurrency or not); or perhaps you don't know me at all, which is perfectly fine.
I've been around (more in PAL and just posting than anywhere else), and my friends call me JJ. So, thanks for taking the time today to read this... it's a suggestion that I had from reading a @GrumpyCat post about GrumpyCompliant bid bot use.
That post describes those efforts, but while reading it I had my own thought that could extend the idea further. I'll detail it below...
So my idea came about because I've been screwed over by those last-second voters like so many others. When, and if I use the Bid Bots (I like to try to fund contests with them and if I really need a short boost for a Post that I'm proud of... yes, I know, a bit of self-indulgence, but sometimes I hope that others see the upvote and want to read it). I'm only Human, after all, so I have used them... heck, because of this whole thing, I've been that last-second voter and I don't like it.
The real thought is to Reward the Early-Bird Voters and make the Last-Second voters less of an impact against the ROI (Return On Investment). How many times have you went and bid only to find that 4+ people bid at the last second to ruin the ROI. I've seen it go from like 65% ROI in the positive all the way to -30% (and I'm sure it could be worse as well).
My thought was that, perhaps, the bots should count a heavier ROI return on those early-birds who vote the bid-bots early as opposed to late, that way other Steemians have a better idea of whether they should bother voting and they can rest at ease that the last-second bidders are not going to ruin the ROI for them. It's frustrating to give up SBD or STEEM and then lose it by returning less than was bid.
As an example option, maybe the voting power for each bid goes as a percentage of remaining time (100% remaining time = 100% value for your bid, while last-second votes count 0%). That would be pretty harsh to everyone, though, so I'd probably allow 100% up to about half the time (so if the timer is 2Hrs. 40 Minutes, the Poster gets 100% up to 1 Hr. 20 Mins. left on the clock), then the value starts decreasing as the time winds down... and I would have the low limit at 1% at the end so that those last-second bidders get something out of it.
I think that doing something similar to this will make voters more aware of the timer and how to use it appropriately as well as being more aware at what their last-second votes have done to others in their Community. Let's front-load the ROI so that people can see what's going on better.
What do you think? I believe the Community should have a say in this, so let's hear some Feedback on this problem!!
A BIG Thanks to everyone on their work with Steemit!!
I've learned quite a lot about the bots from you ;) Also your proposal very legit.
I just tried to see the issue and work from the vantage point of trying to limit the causes of the issue.
Well you are right last minute bidders just ruin all the ROI.. and most of them make so much bigger bits without having a look at maximum profitable bit and ROI that all the ROI goes in minus... Even most of them doesn't bother to visit bottracker to see what ROI is what they see is just a vote on there posts but they don't calculate what will go to curators and what will be going to SP and what is left behind... They just bother about the total $amount on post and they go on biding and ruining others bids... You are absolutely right Its time to educate them to do some responsible bidding or if they don't get responsible bots should be programmed in a more responsible way to keep it profitable..
Much of my issue is indeed a responsibility issue. If the Steemit community would be more responsible with their bidding behavior then it wouldn’t be such an issue. It comes down to people wanting to maximize their investment not realizing several others are trying to do the exact same thing.
That's actually an interesting idea. You might want to pitch it to the guys at minnowbooster on the discord.
Are they the ones that do the development for the bid-bots? or do you think it's something I'd have to pitch individually to each bid-bot creator?
I think I will do that though and see... anyone in particular I should look for?
They run the minnowbooster vote buying bot. It's not a bidding bot. Those work differently. And I keep confusing them. LOL
And yeah, probably will need to pitch individually. Unless you can get this post to go viral with them somehow.
That's what I'd like in the end, but I don't know if I'll hit trending at all, which I think is where it's at.
Nope. Personal messages on discord.
I'll definitely look into it. Thanks for the idea.
The bot owners want as many votes as possible even up to the last second so it will raise their own ROI.
True, but the more abuse that happens with those last-second voters as it upsets the bidding process, the fewer voters they will get. I would think that they want more good voters than poor ones as the poor ones upset the apple-cart.
Watching them develop over the past few months. I've only seen them getting more bids. A few weeks ago my bids were generally worth about 3x their value. Now they are closer to 2x. I often see the profitable bids sold out 30 minutes before a vote takes place... though i have also seen what you are talking about where a profitable bid gets wiped out in the last few seconds.
I just don't really think the bot owners will care as long as people are still buying bids.
They might not, but if they can make similar profits and offer a better solution at the same time, then I think as productive Steemians they would wish to do so. Then again, we're all Humans so some might go for it and some might not.
Personally, I think the bid-bot owners should not allow bids that allow the ROI to go into the negative at all.
Basically, just close the round when the bot is full.
They are making a killing anyway, and this over-bidding is just more cream for them, and less for the guy at the bottom.
If I had the SP to run a bid-bot, I would implement this, and I would also follow @grumpycat's 3.5 day rule.
Bots not adhering to this (out of who's got the biggest balls more than anything else i can fathom), are 'endangering' their customers profits.
Cheers!
I wouldn't be opposed to closing before ROI goes negative or rejecting payments that cause the ROI to go negative, but I still think front-loading the power makes sense.
Its an option yeah, but perhaps trickier to implement? I think you'd have to come up with a plan for this... Maybe sending to 1 bot entitles you to a vote from 1 of 5, each with its own different SP total, and you get the vote from one of these depending on the timing of your send?
Definitely I think would be trickier to implement; however, the idea must come first for the change to happen.
I see some potential in this idea. Because i feel your pain of the last minute voting. Are u interested in creating one? Contact me on discord: Bartcardi
I have no clue how to create a Bot, nor the logic that goes with it.
To bad mate would be a helpful project to work on. I don't have the ability to create it but do have the marketing skills to put it out there. So if anyone interest in this connect me.
If I figure something out I will keep you in mind and try to let you know. I've seen you in Discord so I can find you.
okay mate perfect
my teacher, I fully agree with your views
Thanks.
Believe me, I do not fully understand. the winner is also happening,
Do some research on bid bots to understand further. There are other posts that I'm sure will help out greatly. You don't need to use them, though.
another great post i am on the way to watch all ur posts!
I'm happy that you like my Posts. Thank you!
pleasure is all mine sir!
I agree love reading your posts and information
Thanks so much, I appreciate that. I like to think I provide something to the Community that is beneficial in some way.