Is there a Vote-for-Vote (V4V) app?

in #steem6 years ago (edited)

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Here's the perfect app for Steem's current economic model. Does it exist? Maybe in our private Excel spreadsheets that we manually key-in and secretly keep track of. Anyway, it'll surely encourage the accumulation of Steem Power and maybe in the future, V4V tokens as well. The gist of how V4V works:-

  • I activate V4V on my account.

  • V4V keeps track of the votes I get from everyone and reciprocates them. So if you vote on my post at X voting power, the V4V app will help me return the same amount of votes on yours automatically. Should require a minimum threshold voting power to trigger V4V.

  • I can also set multiplier for reciprocation. As a very rough example, if you give me a $1.00 vote, you'd get a $2.00 vote in return if I happen to be setting this multiplier at 2. If I was being much less generous then I'd be setting the multiplier at 0.1, meaning I'd return your $1.00 vote with a $0.10 vote.

  • V4V will award the best V4Vers with V4V points. Let's say if I always return votes by a multiplier of 10 to my voters over time, I'd get more V4V street cred than usual. But of course, there's nothing stopping anyone from not fulfilling their "V4V promise" by deactivating the app, which is why V4V points can also be penalized over time unless the related accounts not reciprocated are blacklisted by trusted sources and algorithms.

  • Maybe do the same for witness votes as well. A Lannister always pays his debts.

  • What are V4V points for? Bragging rights for the most dedicated V4Vers? I dunno, maybe make it an SMT as well in the future then it'll have a purpose or two. Wear V4V like a badge of merit.

  • V4V + services like https://steemauto.com will become the best voting automation suite. Better reason for accumulating Steem Power for the long-term than solutions like bidbots. Similarly content-agnostic. To the moon!

Note: Seriously though, it could be great addition to the Steem ecosystem and should have real demand, like @danielwong mentioned below.


Shameless plug.

I've recently started running as witness. Announcement post here. Please share it out if you dig it. How to vote:-

  1. Go here: https://steemit.com/~witnesses
  2. Look for @kevinwong and vote.
  3. Alternatively, you can vote through Steemconnect here: https://steemconnect.com/sign/account-witness-vote?witness=kevinwong&approve=1

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what if the voter has a trail like me - the app fails ;)

Lol. Yeah that's why should have a minimum threshold..

What do yo mean by this? What kind of "trail" do you have?

OMG, the majority of people are taking this seriously!

You proved your point.

Hey, why not just have a whole new coin. . .

V4V coin, the first great SMT smash hit. The coin actually votes for itself every five minutes, and doubles in value. . .

The marketing tag for V4V coin will be: "Money that prints itself. The coin virus that goes viral!"

On second thoughts, please go back in time, and create a sense of humor machine, and distribute it for free to your readers, so that people who read this post can cut loose and have a laugh. :)

Seriously though, we can use a serious V4V app. It sounds like a joke but I think it could be real useful. Just gotta exercise that entrepreneurial spirit..

I Made This!!! This App Exists!!

I just finished it several days ago. @kevinwong, please check out my other comment about it below. It's called SteemAX and it kicks ass! It does exactly what you think. Can I chat with you on Discord about it? https://discord.gg/97GKVFC

SteemAX automatically exchanges upvotes between Steemit accounts for an agreed upon ratio and duration.

steemaxlogo.png

https://steemax.trade

It uses SteemConnect to log in for security.

It does exactly what you you're asking for. :))))))

It's already active and has about a dozen users. It needs more! It's in beta release and needs more use so it can be refined.

Check out what I've written about it so far.

Hi, I took a short look. Seems too "manual" and "calculative". I was thinking of something more passive / in the background.

Ideally, what happens is when I activate V4V mode, my account will automatically return any upvotes made by anyone contained in a filtered set of accounts at ratio X. Don't have to explicitly enter agreement between parties so it operates on the basis of good-faith with no-guarantees (since I'll be able to change the settings / deactivate anytime). Also, if I don't agree to return the support of an account, then I should just be able to decide that on my own without providing any explanations. Everyone's free to do whatever.

As such, the app would then have a list of voters that I can "tick" or "untick" to have my own filtered V4V list of accounts. This design philosophy is much better for user experience, imo. Reputation or the V4V points that I'm talking about can be based on some measurements pertaining the fulfillment of one's explicitly stated V4V policy, but this may be too complex in the beginning or likely not so important after all.

What do you think?

@kevinwong, I have done even more thinking about your idea and I have realized both its merits and its possible flaw. Your idea works from the top down and provides an excellent way for whales to automatically distribute their large upvote that far exceeds the use of bid bots, so that is a great merit. Unfortunately, your concept does no good for the minnow who only has $0.001 upvote value. Who will they put into this list and what ratio will they exchange it for and how will they attract the attention of a whale to make the exchange? SteemAX provides a way for the minnow to actively seek, by way of invitations, disproportional upvotes that will grant them early support. SteemAX is for minnows AND whales.

How about that? :)

https://steemax.info/@kevinwong

Seriously though, want to give it a whirl? I've already invited you to exchange upvotes. You just need to accept. I set it to 7 days. I post about 2 to 3 times a day because @artopium does the word of the day. But if you only post once a day then that is the maximum number of exchanges we'll make per day. And the amount you upvote in exchange is a very small percentage of your total value so this exchange so be nothing for you. What do you say? :)

But how can it if it is jok

@kevinwong I have just invited you to exchange upvotes with me!

Check your wallet and you'll see this:

kevinwong_invite.png

I noticed that you have a very large upvote (over $10 STU, very impressive). Because my upvote is so much smaller than yours (a measly $0.002) I set the ratio between our upvotes to 0.01:1 which means that if you accept the invite we will exchange upvotes at $0.0022 vs. $0.2222.

If you don't like the terms of the exchange you can barter

Please visit https://steemax.info/@kevinwong to see this exchange invite after you have logged in.

Please read my blog post about how to accept an invite. Because SteemAX does not store SteemConnect tokens that enable funds transfers, in order to send th invite, and for other security reasons, you must accept the invite by sending back 0.001 SBD (the amount I sent you) with the accept code in the memo.

If this is sounding cool to you I could seriously use some help promoting this app once it's out of beta.

And Why Would This Be A Joke????

This works. It's working.

Obvious bait it's obvious and yet most people are falling for it... I guess in the end a high percentage of steemians would get into vote collusion if they were given the chance. I know you since I got into steemit and I know you are one of the good guys and I know this post comes with a hint of satire.

Haha thanks, I always make a point to use the funny or satire tag in case..

I guess in the end a high percentage of steemians would get into vote collusion if they were given the chance.

Yup which is why some of us are proposing a re-alignment in economic incentives (with maybe 50% curation rewards, increased downvotes, and moving slightly away from pure linear rewards). If voters get back roughly half their votes given out, there should be way more curation going on and the activity wouldn't be losing out as much to trading away votes.

I tend to agree with this. Manual curation should be encouraged and increasing curation rewards is one way of doing that. Of course, by selling your vote you get curation rewards also, but the bot operator gets a cut. I have a hunch that there are fence-sitters among the large-SP holders who would manually curate more if the curation rewards were bigger.

Had me at increased downvotes. So, what factor do you think would be appropriate. I am a big fan of flags so may be too extreme but I would be thrilled at a 2:1 downvote to upvote ratio.

I think that sure as hell would go a long way to clean up the bid botted mess that is trending sea of overvalued shitposts all over the places such as certain whales self voting yt links with nothing added.

#grindsmygears

I think V4V would at least make it more organic the whole bidbots ecosystem. Implementing such an app would at least give another scenario where better opinions can be formed.

I think it would cause whales to engage with content of minnows as well as most of the time it's only happens on the opposite direction.

Anyway how's being a witness going? @bitrocker2020 is my proxy so I'm assuming he voted for you as a witness... haha

I think V4V would at least make it more organic the whole bidbots ecosystem. Implementing such an app would at least give another scenario where better opinions can be formed.

Perhaps, not a big fan but can see its demand. Could do well for SP.

Anyway how's being a witness going?

Enjoyed the process of learning to setup and secure the server. Other than that haven't done much yet.

@danielwong I have made this app. It is called SteemAX.

https://steemax.trade

it is released in beta phase of development, but is so far running very smoothly. Please see my other comments to @kevinwong on this post!

This app could get quite confused - I vote for you, you vote for me, I vote for you, you vote for me etc, etc LOL!! I however think it make sense to build up people who support you, the stronger they get, the more worth their vote will be, thus in the end you will benefit more.

Lol i was thinking if there's gonna be an infinite ping-pong if everyone activates V4V on their account..

The rules for SteemAX prevent this.

slow clap ... I thought this app already existed or at least is the current method used by most steemians 🤔

Serious question though... why aren’t you using the #comedyopenmic tag on this loveliness? That is a true travesty sir...

I thought this app already existed or at least is the current method used by most steemians 🤔

Yes, let's automate the app..

Serious question though... why aren’t you using the #comedyopenmic tag on this loveliness? That is a true travesty sir...

Lol thanks, I've updated the already diverse tag..

Automation is the key to the future afterall..

Yay!! 🙌🏼 Now your tags look perfect 😉

Hello @llfarms and @kevingwong.. the COM tag summoned me :P ! just to make it an official entry nominate two people to make it a valid entry ;) ... here you have one victim... ahem... nominee... -----> @llfarms... just think of a second one :D ! Cheers!

Ohhhh I forgot about that part 😬... poor Kevin might not be up to editing his post again... but if so, I do know a grumpy sheep that is overdue for an entry 🤔

I'm on it......

At last, V4Vapid = V4V app ID.

@v4vapid .. do it.. it's destiny.

The only problem with this is that what happens when someone decided to remove a vote 4 vote or can't reciprocate to everyone? The entitlement issue could undermine the goal of trying to produce good content.
However, if we were to include flags in this V4V scandal, then I am all for it

This is a good suggestion, but I don't think you're quite going all the way with the efficiency.

I suggest getting rid of the posts altogether, for maximum efficiency:

https://steemit.com/funny/@schattenjaeger/time-to-make-steemit-more-efficient-let-s-just-do-away-with-the-posts-entirely

Well well well. I'm working on a F4V (flag-for-vote) app, where if one user upvotes below a certain customizable threshold (1% / 50% / 100%) the upvote receiver automatically flags the other inversely.

So if someone upvotes on me at 2% I flag them at 98%... I mean, how could this go wrong??

A massive upgrade already :D

So this must be the yang to the ying of V4V :p

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