A few words on OCDB

in #ocd5 years ago

As we are working on a full guideline to OCDB and be able to link to it when we warn users of misusing it in the future I wanted to bring up two cases that has been occurring a lot lately that I wanted to talk about.

One of them is the bid bot stacking along with OCDB. To properly understand this you need to understand how the idea of OCDB came to fruition.

Curators at @ocd have constantly been curating users that have

  1. Provided quality and original content
  2. Author has been under-rewarded (the value has changed from time to time)
  3. To help them grow faster on the platform vs spammers, abusers, etc.

This is all in mind to help the platform and stake distribution, thus OCDB is completely non-profit as all bids and curation rewards get returned to the delegators and the authors make a flat 10% ROI instead.

The reason we are against bid bot stacking is because it defeats the purpose of point 2. If things have changed for you since the first curation and addition to OCDB whitelist than that is great and that doesn't mean you should not use OCDB because of that, but since we are focused on rewarding and allowing users that don't naturally generate a lot of rewards it will at some point become a bit frowned upon, we are in no way close to that time though as it will require a lot of demand and the max bid to be a lot lower, so low in fact that for many bigger users it may even seem as a waste of time to use OCDB for that extra x% ROI.

The main reason is that we don't want to encourage people to use OCDB's ROI just to break even for using another bid bot that is not non-profit and does not net the author a net profit. Basically, OCDB is not meant to be for promotion like most other bid bots are. We have a queue and the bot only votes once every time it is at 100% vp for a reason, the max bid is then adjusted depending on demand. We don't have anything against bid bots but since there are no non-profit bid bots (from what I know) it'll mean that authors will use OCDB just to justify having used a bid bot that returns -10% ROI to nullify OCDB's ROI for promotion instead. This does indirectly encourage users to use bid bots that reward and enrich their owners which we are fundamentally against. We want users to get a shot at growing their accounts and the platform to be better distributed since the coin itself is delegated proof of stake and the security with witnesses and everything will depend a lot on distributed stake in the long run.

I'd love to hear you guys opinions on this stance as it is quite controversial and I wouldn't be surprised if bid bot owners were to see it as an aggressive stance even though that is not what we are aiming it to be. We've only warned authors so far and not removed anyone stacking bid bots this far but that is destined to change as we are evolving and fine-tuning the guidelines.

Another thing that occurred recently and reminded me that I should talk about is the whitelist. With a whitelist we are not trying to exclude authors that may also qualify to be in it and with time I am sure that everyone will get a chance. The reason I am writing this is because at the time when OCD was a lot bigger and our votes could cover a lot more authors daily we were also curating different languages. As times changed, curators went inactive and our votes could barely make a dent in the daily posts we had to remove language curation. We were curating up to 10 different languages at the time which means there were probably a lot of whitelisted users to OCDB who only wrote in their native language. That's all fine and we realize it's on us that the plans changed and there now exist users that wish to buy OCDB votes for their native language posts, but we reserve the right to warn you not to do so right now as we don't have the manpower to curate or check for abuse that can happen in many ways. As I said in a recent comment even though the chances of abuse existing in the users we have curated is rather low, we just can't be for sure right now that's why we aren't allowing people to buy OCDB votes on other languages than english. If you happen to post in both languages than that is all fine cause through your english post we could then check that there is no plagiarism going on or spinning. Telling us to use Google Translate does not make much sense cause it would be impossible to figure out if a user posting in German has stolen and translated the article manually from a source.

We hope in the near future to be able to allow all 10 languages we have curated in the past for OCDB as well and have users check through them for their originality but as of right now we can't. We hope the majority of users will understand this "problem" we are having right now and they'll respect our decision. Finding out some users have been abusing OCDB after the fact feels as if we have done everyone else in the whitelist and platform a disservice because we weren't able to nip it in the bud in time. So again, we're not discriminating other languages and we don't want to exclude anyone. A few big changes that are coming up for OCDB soon will help everyone get a shot at trying out OCDB through the whitelist.

IMG_20170725_152455.jpg

Thanks for reading, as always I reward discussions and comments in my posts with a vote. We at OCD hope to become an important pillar in the future of the platform and be the cause to a healthy distribution of stake.

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Thank you for the transparency/thoughts/concerns regarding the OCDB curation project.

I'll share my opinion regarding bid bot stacking. This is the opinion of someone who is not on the whitelist, but given the fact that you mention there will be possible opportunities in the future for people to have a chance, I will share how I think.

I've been thinking quite a bit lately on the bid bot/fixed rate bot topic, and I've never had a more sour taste about them. I myself am guilty of using them in the past, but in my own defense, was a bit naive to the system and have made it a point to learn and understand the dynamics on a deeper level. So here is my opinion:

OCDB is an honor, and should be treated as such. I don't think it would be unreasonable to have a strict policy regarding this. Perhaps 1 warning, then a removal from the list if ignored. If the honor of being added to this list is unrecognizable by some, then perhaps they don't need to be on the list to begin with. No question in my mind some of the whitelisted are gamers, I make it a point to study them.

Anyways, this substantially addresses the topic I think, as far as my opinion is concerned. Thank you for allowing the community to share their thoughts @acidyo, you are appreciated.

IMHO: it would only make 'the case for ocdb' stronger if you'd take a stance against bid bot stacking :-) To exclude stackers from using ocdb show ocdb is not 'one of them', but has a different goals with a specific set of rules.

How you could handle this is a bit less straightforward: maybe there's a whitelist and 'stackers' can only use it 10% of what other users can send in? As to not remove the good content makers from the whitelist? Maybe there's going to be a grey list? :D

Curious to see creative solutions for this - just wanted to show my support for enforcing rules 'against' (it's not an attack, just a differentiation in use) bod bot stackers.

Cheers.

Good points and yeah it's a bit of a sensitive issue so has to be planned out well how we deal with it. Thanks for understanding where we come from. ^^

It’s a puzzle and some people will raise their eyebrows, but it’s more important to keep your own goals and values in mind :-)

Posted using Partiko iOS

I think you doing right in your ideas and actions to not allow bid bot stacking. In principle I'm against bid bots for reasons we've seen the whole rewarding in the community changed since. Maybe it would have changed anyway, but since the bid bots are a major influence to reward distribution and a larger part of the daily Steem is directed towards the bid bot owners and indirectly to those who delegate their SP, it is harming the community and in the end also the Steem value and the blockchain. Unfortunately the developers didn't build in a mechanism to prevent bots. I really love what OCDB is doing, distributing Steem to the 'good' content. Something we need more of. Some other curator teams are out there, but too few in my honest opinion. I certainly hope, OCDB can grow again as a team allowing to spread value to more authors.

If the goal of @ocdb is to improve stake distribution on Steem in the long run and rewarding for original quality content while at it, then excluding bid bot stackers is the right move. It's a very simple matter.

I delegated almost all my SP to @ocdb and I am very satisfied with the return.

Thanks! Although I don't doubt that bid bots can out perform OCDB's returns, especially with more users on the platform wanting to buy attention thus not caring about the returns of the bid bot votes, by delegating to OCDB you can rest assured your votes are going to the right users and maybe even yourself.

Hey Acid. I only use you guys and it helps me grow. I never even get close to the maximum bid which is a bummer, but it is great for accounts like myself. I see the 10 percent as gold dust and is now part of my growth strategy. Thanks for this great initiative and look forward to how it evolves in the future.

I've recommended some people to power down some stake to not miss out on these max bids as we're certain the amount of unique daily users will increase in no time forcing us to lower the max. It could help you grow faster in the meantime!

I hadn't thought of that and think it is probably the best thing to do for now. Thanks for that idea as I would never have thought of doing that.

I'm happy to only use @ocdb for my posts.

I think you all are doing a great job and I hope you will change the way people think about bid bots. What you're doing here is an example for others to follow and make this blockchain better.

Agree 100%

Would you think @tipu is maybe a non profit bot? I think that @cardboard doesn't take any profit

Posted using Partiko Android

I'm not aware of how it works, I should take a look one of these days, thanks for the reminder!

No doubt that @ocdb is doing a great job in helping authors to earn a little extra than the intended reward a little extra 10% - 25% = -15% from the original reward after deducting curation reward. Now I am solely using @ocdb as a boost for my post and make good use on my idle Steem and SBD. It is just like a cycle and once I stacked enough of them, I will reuse it again. That is one way I look at the method of usage of the bank.

As for abusing, it is hard to track unless with the help of the community to supervise each other for not doing so. Fortunately, most of the authors in @ocd are really good and produce constant quality content rather than spamming. Respect the community and hope it will grow even larger :)

Not sure if you were referring to OCDB with the numbers in the first sentence, just in case you've misunderstood OCDB gives you a 10% ROI after curation. Meaning your bid gives you 1.5x return which then gets its 25% curation removed. Might be slightly higher than 10%.

Yeah we've worked hard on the whitelist and want to make sure that moving forward there is no leeway for abuse. :)

Got it, and yup I'm referring to OCDB. Thanks for the rectification @acidyo!

Ya, for the sake of sustainability, I will also keep an eye too :) Steem on!

I can understand that it feels like being abused if people try to use ocbd to minimize the risk by using bidbots!
Also understandable that for the moment only English is the only language which is curated!
Waiting that the white list will be open again or on visit of ab ocdb curator!
Cheers,
Peter

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