How about unflagging my posts?steemCreated with Sketch.

in writing •  2 years ago  (edited)

Back in the beginning of Steemit.com (April 2016-ish) I had no notion of the site. I didn't join until August and I missed out on the MASSIVE earnings that some of the very early adopters received for their work. I also doubt I'd have got into the mining thing because I just didn't know enough about it - so that's TWO bites of the cherry I missed.

I arrived with the notion that this was a blogging site where I could share my work and potentially get paid for it.

It took a while - a GOOD while to earn anything.

I made posts that made nothing. I made posts that made a fair bit and once or twice, my earnings went over the $100 Steem mark. WOOHOO!

Just recently, I've made a concerted effort in getting my head together and really get down to writing. I was earning quite a good amount of Steem - but then again, I was also putting in quite a bit of work - even on the stories I'd already written.

You see, I don't just take a piece of my writing, cut and paste it into Steemit.com and run off to do something else. I read through the piece again with my trained Editor's eye and I seek out things that shouldn't be there. I seek out things that could be improved and I change stuff.

Then, I look for a few pictures that suit the topic I've written about and I slide them in there too... you know, just to bulk-out the post and make it attractive to the eye.

I can't possibly tell you how I do all this editing stuff, after all, I've spent years learning it all.

Because I've spent years learning the editing stuff, the writing stuff and the storytelling stuff, I mistakenly believed that time-served in apprenticeship would have value. I've invested time into my chosen career and try as you might to find a purveyor of time, you can't - there's no one selling time - yet.

@lukestokes made a point:

What if...

Hundreds of professional authors come to Steemit and bring expectations to get paid for their work. All their fans get angry when their posts aren't being voted up enough. Everyone's frustrated.

Here's what I see in that statement:

Hundreds of Authors - professional writers, people who can actually craft stories, worlds, characters - all coming to Steemit.com, bringing their fans - Thousands of fans - SOME of whom are so invested in their author that they are prepared to invest their own money in Steem in order to 'pay' their favourite author in Steem.

If every author brought with them 10 fans, followers and readers, that would increase the user-base massively and look even better for potential investors... wouldn't it? What if one author brought more than 10 people - would that add value or not?

Now, what would that do to the price of Steem? All those fans buying Steem to favour their pet Author? Why! The price would go up, wouldn't it?

What about if those fans Powerup their acquired Steem so they can upvote their Author? Again... Price going up.

And then, when someone decides that all those Howk-spit minnows (Ugh, we have actual minnows touching our steem! How ghastly!) and their vests don't have the right to say where the Steem goes to and starts downvoting said author.

What happens then?

I wonder... I wonder how many authors have to be told, No, fuck off! We don't want your sort here! We only want people to write about what we want to read and anyone else can go and fuck right off! before you have no authors of stories left?

It's a shame someone didn't just move the fuck along if they didn't like the fact that a talented and prolific author had decided to make her home here at Steemit.com.

It's a shame someone didn't see that said author was investing everything earned straight back into Steemit.com and therefore the earnings were still on the platform, circulating - in a small, minnowish way, but circulating, nonetheless. And so were the people she brought to Steemit.com.

It's a shame that someone has decided that his weight in Steem is to be used to brow-beat and bully people rather than encourage and uplift people using the platform - especially people who have promoted the platform in many ways. And then to break his own arm slapping himself on the back for doing so and then bragging about it Here OOOH! What a fucking hero!

@transisto downvote @michelle.gent/not-posting-exclusive-excerpts-of-m… (-48%)
Yep, he downvoted 12 of my posts now, but that one wasn't because it was a serialisation.

It's a shame that someone believes that making a living from Steemit.com is somehow a dingy, tawdry little job, so far beneath him that he can spit on one and splatter hundreds.

We must learn from history or we are doomed to repeat it.

I also noticed @transisto just couldn't be bothered with writing a response to everyone that replied to him on the flagging post addition: Here

So he just copied and pasted - adding value in his own little way. /sarc

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Dear @michelle.gent,

I have nothing against your work and to be honest I even read it myself. However, I see some logic in @transisto actions too. I will explain why.
First of all, as you know we have a little war going on here in Steemit. @Berniesanders started it against @minnowbooster, but then at some point made it more general - against unfair rewards and exploit of reward pool. As we can see, now he is not alone, more people are supporting his vision.
Now if take writing category and explore it a little bit deeper, we will see that you are almost the only author (together with @suesa) who is getting Daily up to $100 with a ratio of 100 views. As we know nothing is illegal here, but from the proportional point of view - it is more than 1$ per view.
Probably you will say "hey that's the point and difference of Steemit comparing to other platforms, you can earn here and I was working hard for one year to get these results. "
Well, maybe but if we take a closer look again, we will see that you get so high rewards only because @blocktrades supports you on a daily basis.
I can't blame you, you got used to it and now you think this is standard.
Personally, I see several problems here:

  • unfair and too high rewards;
  • minnows are thinking that if they work for one year they will achieve same results as you, which is not true, you got your results only thanks to @blocktrades. ( It would be okaish if he supported​ you once or 2 in a while, but every single post up to $100, comon! this does not feel fair to other authors);
  • So if a minnow will follow your example and work hard for one year, but for some will not get noticed by @blocktrades or some other whales, he won't be able to earn at all? Even if he makes 2x of your views and upvotes per post?
  • this looks like a pure collision. I don't know whether @blocktrades just likes your writing or you are buddies, but it is not right.
    You have all rights to defend yourself, but this is not so much about you, the whole system of Steemit works poorly. We have so many people leaving platform because of the cases like this, they see potential, they work hard but then they see that a group of people are liking each other and they leave. So from my personal point of view something should be chnaged and this is a good start.
    And I think you should not be sad, as you can see this post got you already 80$ without @blocktrades support. People are feeling you and all you need to do know is get their interest in your novels :)
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  ·  2 years ago (edited)

I think we should use the idea of diminishing returns to make it less attractive to upvote oneself (including own multiple accounts) or 'buddies' again and again. I described it like this:
"How about if after each vote on a specific account (including ones own account) each further vote on the same account would lead to significantly less curation reward for the voter and less profit for the upvoted account? Thus, when upvoting an account which I had already upvoted before, my voting power would be smaller than in case I upvote an account which I didn't upvote before."

Maybe other ideas like the one of @scipio would work as well.

As long as the system is designed to be exploited it will be exploited ... so in my opinion not the ones who exploit the system are to 'blame' but the system should be improved.

Okay so four books are available to vote on:

  1. Cat in the hat
  2. Bible (whatever version)
  3. Mein Kampf
  4. Life of Karl Marx.

Now if I happen to be a fan of Cat In The Hat, and I happen to think that Karl Marx was the most ignorant person on the earth at the time he was alive, that eventually you are going to force me to support his book? That is what I got out of your post.

Then you didn't get it. You could still vote on everything you like as often as you want. However, if you upvote the one and same author within a certain time frame several times, every upvote would be significantly weaker than the previous one.
There are accounts here who upvote themselves (or their own multiple accounts) or the same friends again and again, several times per day. They are not to blame as system allows it. But it is not useful for the communication within the platform. It is not helpful for very new account holders who still have no connections but produce good content. My idea would help to spread votes within the platform instead to concentrate them on a few authors.

Then the system will die. It is that simple. If I like a person's content because I feel it meets my standard of content, why should my vote be worth less and less and less if I continue to find their content valuable? Why should a content provider even try to develope a fan base if the votes and rewards from that fan base is less and less and less with each piece of quality content they provide. Believe me I get it. I understand, that there are going to be people that game the system, so since that is possible let's make it voting on content that people like worthless. I do not know Michelle Gent. have never met her, most likely will never meet her. I like her writing I voted on her stories as I read them. I commented on her stories as I read them. Sometimes that was 3 or 4 votes a day. You want to devalue my input it is as simple as that. I also read and vote on several other Authors works a day. You want to devalue my vote on their work also. Your system will only drive people away, and decrease the quality of the content on steemit, because there would be no, none, zero reason to be a consistent quality content provider when your work is devalued because your fans votes have been devalued. End of story, possible end of the steemit dream of having Quality Content.

We agree to disagree. I say the opposite is the case: the system will die if selfvoting and solely upvoting friends prevents new unknown users from enjoying the platform and being successful. Maybe you are not aware about many big accounts which are just writing about 10 'short stories' per day just to upvote themselves. By upvoting oneself there is no need anymore to produce quality content (there will be upvotes anyway). There is no need to communicate with others anymore: completely unattractive for potential investors.
If you upvote yourself and your best buddies once or twice a day that is more than enough: you just can't tell me that there is any need to do that several times per day(!). My system would still allow it but make it less attractive. (By the way I want to see that author who writes more than two quality articles per day ...)

Yes I suppose we will have to agree to disagree.

(By the way I want to see that author who writes more than two quality articles per day ...)

The way you phrased that it seems as if you do not think it happens, quality is subjective, always has been always will be Here are two Authors:
1.@michelle.gent
[email protected]

I, (I don't expect everyone does or will agree), find their stories to be Quality work. Michelle was posting 3 of her stories, editing one story and writing the continuation on two of them. Thats a lot of work, and I enjoyed the stories.

Everitt also has been posting multiple stories, two of which I have been reading and enjoying. So for me these two Authors post multiple Quality stories.

I do a small steemag, trying to bring readers and Authors/Storytellers together. We all have differing opinions on what is fun to read, and what is quality.

So there is an example of two quality authors making multiple post in a day.

quality is subjective, always has been always will be

Sorry, I think - depending on the topic - I can evaluate 'quality' very well. In my eyes this "quality is subjective" is often used as an excuse to defend non-quality stuff.

For example concerning science articles there are many criteria to evaluate 'quality'. It is important to be accurate, to argue in a logical way, to present the topic understandable, to cite your sources, to use instructive images and decent formatting.

I have the impression you want to defend @michelle.gent. That is nice of you, but actually I don't want to attack her anyway - I even haven't read any of her articles. :)
I am thinking about the development of the platform (and the Steem price) in general and from my point of view there are worse things thinkable than upvoting your favorite author only (let's say) twice per day with full voting power.

There will be always people who exploit the system, that's why the system should change and grow with a time.
Regarding diminishing returns, I agree it might be actually a good idea. I saw something similar in "Steemit Roadmap 2018: Community Input Requested" post. In fact, there were many good ideas, let's see if any of them will come to life.

Imo one of the biggest problems we have on Steem is that there is too much intellect and not enough passion.

I don't agree, I think it is the other way around. Steemit is broken, because of bots and collisions. Minnow's posts are getting lost without any possibility to get seen.

Some bots help minnows to be seen.

On this point I agree, but it happens only because algorithm​ of hot and trending​ posts does not work efficiently. Moreover, they are obliged to use bots, because others do that and they have 0 chance to get noticed without bots. Personally, I would prefer to have a society without bots, with a better visibility and reward opportunities​ for minnows, where you grow your fan base and get rewarded proportionally for that. I use bots myself, minnowbooster was favorite for a while btw :) but I was doing that for the same reasons as other minnows - obliged.

they are obliged to use bots, because others do that and they have 0 chance to get noticed without bots

That opinion is wrong. Plain and Simple wrong. People can and do get visibility without the use of bots. People can and do grow without the use of bots. I do not use bots. I learned to use the orig works bot to show my wife. I have tried pribra's croupier bot to see how it worked for rewarding people. That is all of the bots I have used. Resteem bot/people are a scam, I have, (I think) all of the minnow help bots on mute. In 3 months I reached 53.4 Rep and 157SP.

Not a great success, but done without bots or vote buying or minnowboosting scheme's.

I, on the other hand, haven't used bots. I decided to let the Steemit community decide whether my work was worth upvoting and apparently, a few people thought it was.

Then one decided they were all wrong and here we are...

  ·  2 years ago (edited)

This post is currently hidden due to the author's low reputation or low post rating.

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The Writers' Block has responded officially to this situation HERE, and while we don't have a major financial stake in this issue, our team of writers and editors have several lifetimes of experience in publishing that gives our opinions value. I want to point out one thing, not to be arbitrary, but hopefully to bring a little real-world balance to table.

minnows are thinking that if they work for one year they will achieve same results as you, which is not true, you got your results only thanks to @blocktrades. ( It would be okaish if he supported​ you once or 2 in a while, but every single post up to $100, comon! this does not feel fair to other authors);
So if a minnow will follow your example and work hard for one year, but for some will not get noticed by @blocktrades or some other whales, he won't be able to earn at all? Even if he makes 2x of your views and upvotes per post?

This is a pretty accurate summary of brick and mortar publishing as well. It's a reality all authors face if they hope to be picked up by one of the Top Five, or even a reputable small press. Many of us look at the success of authors like E.L James and even James Patterson, and scratch the hide off our scalp trying to figure out how in the hell they make millions, when much more talented and relevant writers make virtually nothing. Not getting noticed by people with the money is a fact of life in publishing. It also puts the onus squarely on the authors to write better. Promote harder. Invest in their own dreams. I definitely see your point that many writers coming to Steemit get into a twist over the dynamic here, but more because they failed to "manage their expectations" (hat tip to @lukestokes) than because the system is broken.

Now, before people start yelling over my last remark, I'm not saying the system isn't broken. It has quite a basketful of issues. But to think the dynamic addressed above is unique to the Steemit economy is not quite accurate. Just my two cents worth. --@rhondak

The power of unintended consequences. You were doing well before. You'll do ok, and probably even better from this. I've resteemed this post to 6700 people. I encourage you to continue writing.

I share some of Transisto's opinion that as a platform we really shouldn't be rewarding low view count posts with high amounts of steem. So, I've resteemed your post in hope of getting the view count up higher and also in support of fiction on the blockchain. It has a place. I hope that place is trending.

I do think he's right that we should be working to share our material on other media as well. I'll start working on that some too.

Chin up, hang in there, life will be better after if you stick with it.

I would like to thank you for reviewing this issue.

I share some of Transisto's opinion that as a platform we really shouldn't be rewarding low view count posts with high amounts of steem.

I am one of Michelle's fans. I do not think 123 views, 12 comments and 110 votes is a post that is really skewered weight wise. And this was from one of her flagged post.

I have many times mentioned that views and comments are what make a post valuable, not the number of votes, or the amount of the reward. We know that one person's vote can make a huge reward difference, (@curie comes to mid), but the number of views, I don't think I have noticed a bot capable of increasing view amounts yet.

@aggroed, you are spot-on about sharing our material on other media as well. As a direct result of last night's dialogue with @transisto, we established a presence for the Writers' Block on several other social media platforms as well, with that very purpose in mind. Facebook tends to shadow ban Steemit posts, but with Steemshelves, we have a nifty workaround. There is just no way for us, as writers looking for an audience, to disagree with his rationale about that.

I'm so sorry. I forgot to thank you for the resteem and the kind words.

Thank you!

I've just about decided to stick with it but no more novels, no more stories. I might get researching crypto and start blogging about that... I mean, how hard can a lot of copy/paste and link-condensing be?

Michelle, I love your work, please keep focused on bringing your quality work to Steem. Don't focus on the rewards, they say very little. Let the whales fight out their systemic battle with their game theories and their perspectives on what's 'good' or 'right' for the platform. I fully understand what impact this could have on your motivation and attitude towards this platform, but please:

Try to stay out of this discussion and simply ignore it. Please just keep bringing your writing to Steem.

Yours truly,

A reader.
(yes a real human reader)

Thank you. I'm always pleased when someone posts to say they like my work.

I'm a stubborn person and I gave up bowing to bullies a long time ago - long story.

I enjoy writing here, I think I'll stay 😉

Steemit as a whole provides a very unusual relation between views and rewards, it's earning that are pretty much impossible on any other platform with the same amount of views. So in a way his criticism is fair, but I don't think one can reasonable expect to find all posts that have an unreasonable relation between views and rewards because it's pretty much all of them. Additionally, it seems likely that there is a very strong bias towards this exact type of content heavily influencing his reaction, not just the mathematical relationship between the rewards and the views. But big rewards and low views are surely unsustainable.

Of course it's unsustainable. Maybe something to counter that? Something that prevents an upvote unless you're actually on the blog page itself?

That would also put a stop to bot voting too perhaps.

No, this would not stop bot voting, it wouldn't even make it more difficult and there is no practical way to implement it.

Perhaps taking away the vote button on the list pages would implement it? Then in order to vote, the account would have to visit the post.

This has no bearing on bots. Remember, this is just one interface, not the blockchain. Bots are interacting with the STEEM blockchain, not with the steemit interface.

Fair enough, I was looking at killing two birds with one stone.

I get loads of ideas. Some are really odd and way off into left-field and I make those ideas into stories. The other, more normal ideas sometimes help solve problems. Sometimes not.

That's how ideas work for most of use too :P

@michelle.gent thank you for pulling back the curtain in Steemit Oz Land. As the say when the curtain is pulled back in the Wizard of Oz: "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain' from the Wizard of Oz."

Stay.. and be a part of this, play and create.

I am just doing fun things now. I see lots of funds go to posts of countless photos of travels or words as long as it is long, they say job well done.

Now we all know it is not about the content but the investors. We always knew that but finally the man behind the curtain stepped out and said so and I want to thank you for that.


Gotta love this clip says it all. Lots of Laughs!

Hahaha!

I'm flagging this because I don't like what she's saying! She's making me look like I'm a mean person! Flag-Flag-Flag!

@michelle.gent Now, remember it turned out the Wizard wasn't such a bad guy, after all, he helped everyone get what they wanted.

Yeah... but he didn't want to and tried to get them to all go away - it was only when his hand was forced that he actually did anything of note.

yes...you are right ... and I think he was a happier character because of the turn of events...

There's hope yet, then ;)

We're definitely not in Kansas any more

Apparently not...

Please don't leave. You are an inspiration to many authors on this platform. I was very upset yesterday, but I have hope yet. You have many people supporting you michelle.

I'm so sorry you were upset by all this. I was upset too and my husband became exceptionally angry because I had been upset.

I'm sticking around, but maybe not posting my stories because someone doesn't like them and flags them.

I secretly believe that's not the actual reason 12 of my posts got flagged, but that's his story and he's sticking to it...

I love your work. You were one of the first people I started following when I joined because I recognised quality content when I see it.

No memes.

No cut-n-paste.

No short, bullshit messages with no thought.

Lots of creativity. Imagination. And hard work!!!!!

Love your work and support you. You’re an inspiration.

Fuck the troll!!!

Thank you!

This is really gratifying. Not the money - that can be made again if I lost it all - it's the connections, the people who say 'I like your work', 'I come here every day just to read your stories' and my favourite...

Love your work and support you. You’re an inspiration.

Thank you!

Wow, taking it too hard. In the end the platform should be open and free. Everybody, anyone do whatever they feel is worth doing, we have the choice to up vote it , re-steem it or not. No need to classify, to make one right and the other wrong, that is what fascists does. The world is all about diversity!

  ·  2 years ago (edited)

we have the choice to up vote it

Do we really, if when we upvote something we like and then someone comes by and negates our vote, did we really and honestly get to vote. It's like going into a voting booth for an important election, sign your name make your vote, then watch as you hand your vote to the vote clerk and they put it in the shredder or light it on fire. Then you demand to vote again and they say sorry, but you have already voted. Your vote really made a difference.

Even if when we upvote something we like and then someone comes by and negates our vote, those actions are still human flair of this polarization we all presence ourselves . Different opinions . The problem to me bashadow avatar puppy is upvote bot which is a machine that's upvote content for cash. At least when one upvote and the other negates it, it is still human interactions (people likes to disagree, don't they?). If we get to the point of a bot to upvote and another bot to negates the vote, it will definetely be the end of steemit.

What a piece of work he/she is! I am the cavalry has arrived!

I've just been looking at the steemit white paper and it says there are two entry ways into steemit, investing or working (blogging). Also the reward pool is there for writers and curator, doesn't say anything about self appointed accounts policing it.

But... he's a WHALE he gets to tell everyone else how they should vote and everything and if they don't do as he tells them, he flags them to make them see just how mighty and powerful he is! RAWRRR!

So we the steemians needs to tell how to vote? Is this decentralize efforts?

Well... a version of it...

Hi Michelle, I also joinned in Aug and I know what you mean about the grind it takes to grow your account.

I am not an Author, so I tip my hat to your success.

I am going to leave one thought here you can ignore it entirely and I will not be offended.

Just keep writing and posting transisto is one whale, he doesn't want to spend the rest of his voting power long term on flagging you, you may also get some support from your fans in helping you stay above the line.

Call his bluff.

If you have been around that long you know we have lost others to the flag battle it will not change, don't take yourself and your blog down trying to fight this.. (unless it is that important to you)

So, I am not telling you what to do. If it were me I would suck it up and post a shit load more. Let's see what he's got. :)

I wish you luck whatever you decide. :) Take care.

Thanks for your advice. I appreciate it and I'm taking every comment and reply on board.

I've decided to stay but with some provisos (self-imposed).

No more of my novels or stories. Sorry, I'm not risking getting flagged again - 12 flags from a whale is enough (I still think it's a shame he's come in with the big stick rather than encouragement and guidance, but there you go - big sticks don't bother me. I was taught how to take a beating and roll with the punches from a very early age and his stick isn't that big anyway).

I'll curate more and as my powerdown comes in, I'll take it and re-invest it elsewhere - that adds value to the platform, doesn't it? Or have I got that the wrong way around...?

I'll put on hold all the plans I had for the multi-million dollar (US dollar) investment proposals I have and seek other avenues and investment potential for my ideas - you see, I can't help getting these ideas and one day, the idea I do get will be the one (or two) that actually does make it - it will be here sooner or later.

@michelle, I don't comment too often because most of my work creative work for steemit takes isolation. I don't need all those voices getting in the way of my focus. To paint I need to be centered and quiet, no distraction.

But when I take my breaks through the day I read interesting post and your posts have been some of the best original content around Steemit and also around the big worldwide net. I loved your editing series! For me I suck at writing and you set an excellent example on how to write a good story.

Steemit would be the big loser if you left. We already lost so many good creators, like one of my favorites @chessmonster. He quietly left and didn't tell anyone. I noticed his posts weren't showing up in my feed.

Please keep writing your stories!

Much love Lisa

FYI re chessmonster: we exchanged a few emails and he is doing fine ("never better", he said, IIRC.). A pity he's left Steemit, I liked his work.

I miss him I feel bad for neglecting his bog, I learned a lesson. Pay more attention through comments when voting for my favorites. I am also voting more too. I am glad he is doing well. I figure he didn't depend on steemit for his painting sales ;-)

Thank you!

That is worth more than money - the fact that someone finds and even makes time to read my work is invaluable.

We've been through flag wars before, we can make it through this one too!

It's clear from the comments section alone that this author brings an above average amount of content to the platform; there's actual real people holding a discussion & not the usual weak responses & bot replies. I've seen whales post to echo chambers with consistently big payouts & a larger sense of entitlement and yet they are held up as an example of success. Why discourage this kind of author & downvote if the quality of the work doesn't merit the response?

One commenter called the post "whining" & I disagree. I'm still trying to figure out where I want to publish & the kind of person/whale I'd want to be if I ever earn success. I appreciate authors shining a light on issues, so I can decide if it's worth my life's time to invest it here. There have been several similar instances & Whale perspective pieces that make me trust my gut's hesitancy. I understand why she may pull back her energy from here, but it's too bad.

We can motivate or we can try & turn out people's light. We can spend time curating quality & discovering the next big author/personality/artist which sounds way more rewarding than starting wars or spending time squabbling over payouts when there's so much actual garbage posts receiving high payouts that could be cleaned up.

Wouldn't Upvotes to content you do find more financially deserving reduce the OPs payout share proportionately, but in a more positive & encouraging manner to other authors? It sounds way more fun than petty squabbles from people that will likely be billionaires if they'd learn what appreciation can really mean for the platform.

I'm sorry your content was down-voted based on politics & not quality. I'm thankful I found you & look forward to reading more of your content.

Thank you. I'm reminded of an old saying:

You get a lot more bees with honey than with vinegar

IT IS SAD TO SEE NO FREEDOM OF SPEECH IN THIS WONDERFUL PLATFORM . Michelle is entitle even to let out her anger. Some people are softie, hand over the tissue

One 100% from me, Michelle
Stay in the game. @michelle.gent

I don't like whiny posts. No one is entitled to rewards. Steemit gives you the opportunity to convince the consensus of voters that you deserve rewards, nothing more.

These posts don't add value nor do they make Steemit a better community. Flagged

Thanks for taking the time to swing by and read something I've written. It's unfortunate that it happened under these circumstances.

After reading @ats-david's comments on my post, I've learned something I didn't realise before.

Every day is an opportunity to learn.

Steemit gives you the opportunity to convince the consensus of voters that you deserve rewards, nothing more.

The the consensus of voters you mean transisto? he is a one man dictatorial consensus of voters. Did you look at how many views and comments those 12 flagged contents contained? Are all post that point out a problem a "Whiny" post?

Steemit may give opportunity, but it is one person that decides if you get to be rewarded, (in this case), not a consensus of voters the voters spoke on those post by looking, reading, commenting and voting, and one person decided those casting votes did not know what they were doing.

  ·  2 years ago (edited)

The consensus of voters means the upvoters and the downvoters (flaggers) both. When a voter has a lot of SP, yes that voter will have a lot of influence, but that doesn't mean anything is being determined by 'one person'. In fact, in this case it was pointed out that more of the upvoting came from a single person than the downvoting. And that further discounts the many other (low- and high-SP both) voters who could vote on the post but choose not to (abstaining). Finally any rewards not allocated to one post or comment go to others, all of which have their own voters. So in no case are the rewards ever determined by a single person, far from it. The eventual rewards allocated are determined by the consensus (or lack thereof) between all of the voters.

I surrender. It seems that people for whatever reason do not want to understand the downvote. That is fine. The FAQ has a couple areas that talk about the downvote. Down voting is not by any stretch of the imagination any sort of consensus. If I were to down vote you It would have ZERO effect on you. Downvote only works one way. A person higher than you can downvote you, a person lower than you can not downvote and have an effect on you. That sir is how the down vote works, here is from the FAQ:

The only way for your reputation score to go down is to be downvoted by another user. Not all downvotes will cause a reputation loss though.

Downvotes from users with a lower reputation score than you will not hurt your score.

If your post or comment that was downvoted still received more upvotes than downvotes (weighted by SP), then the net effect on your reputation score will still be positive.

That is from the FAQ.

So in no case are the rewards ever determined by a single person, far from it.

When you look at all the rewards that go out in one day, yes. When you look at this one case, this case only of potential rewards, it was ONE person who decided how much her reward should be. Not only affecting her reward, but any and all curation rewards attached to that particular post. So yes when you talk about all the rewards that are spread out among all the steemit content creators, and curators, one person did not decide how much the population received, just how much that one person received.

But I will go back into my shell and forget what the steem whitepaper says about bots, I will forget what the steemit FAQ says about down votes and I will blindly follow all the other sheep. Yeah right.

Upvotes and downvotes are like praises and criticisms, if you accept one then you have to accept the other gracefully. But that's not to say you're doing wrong, it's just that the platform is expressing itself.

I think The Platform just expressed itself...

Amen.

Resteemed... showing just exactly how I feel about all this. Thanks for taking the time to put all this into words on cyberpaper.

Thank you and you're welcome.

Thanks for sharing! A link to your post was included in the Steem.center wiki article about Flag. Thanks and good luck again!

Thank you. I'll go check it out now.

Such a shame power is abused in this way. Original content should be encouraged. I don't like recycled posts about crypto currency, but I wouldn't dream of trying to take away peoples earnings (unless it is plagiarism, stealing others original content to make money is a no no). We need to value our artists, our creators, or this site will go the way of others (Tsu for example).

Ah well... one down... only a few thousand to go... ;)

  ·  2 years ago (edited)

In the past before art was industrialized we had rich patrons support us, we as in writers, musicians, artists, and the builders of beautiful objects. I don't mind great artist, musicians, and writers being supported by a Steemit large account for quality work, which reminds me of the old patronus system.

I looked to Steemit as a way to maybe buy my art supplies which I really can't afford right now because we are helping out family. Maybe you @berniesanders can become my patron, that would be hilarious considering our history here on Steemit.

@berniesanders I respect you but sometimes your bots can't spot quality posters that deserve the big rewards. I wish the trending page had more diversity though, it is as boring as a bowl of plain porridge.

Congratulations @michelle.gent!
Your post was mentioned in the hit parade in the following categories:

  • Upvotes - Ranked 3 with 708 upvotes
  • Comments - Ranked 8 with 129 comments

Good post

@smartbot tip @michelle.gent 100

Ouch! Hope this helps...

Σ$$$ Tipped @michelle.gent Σ100 SMART! Comment @smartbot help to claim. Currently the price of SmartCash in the market is $0.056 USD per SMART. Current value of the tip is $5.60 USD. To find out more about SmartCash, please visit https://smartcash.cc.

Well that's Awesome! Thank you!

Nice content and pretty interesting. Thanks.

oh you share a great information for beginners thank you

It's a shame someone didn't see that said author was investing everything earned straight back into Steemit.com and therefore the earnings were still on the platform, circulating - in a small, minnowish way, but circulating, nonetheless. And so were the people she brought to Steemit.com.

Don't copy and paste my own comments back at me. Have a little class can't you?

Loved your post.
You are like a motivational speaker to me.you are a great writer. i am looking forward to your posts.
flagging is not the right way,this is what i think ,atleast not in your posts
resteeeming your post for a better reach to people
May this will help you very little but i think it can make difference.
Thank you and have good day

Hello, I'm starting in Steemit, I'll take your good advice for every day to improve in this fabulous network, I invite you to visit my Blog, regards

After reading some of the other comments and replies I figured I would add something in here which seems to be missed which is daily reward pool. Steemit does not run on a potentially infinite well of SP (exact opposite with a maximum of 250,000,000) so that means that the rewards for each day is dependent on the amount of SP mined meaning there is a maximum amount that the steemit community can make collectively in a single day. Because of this maximum profit collectively, it has been taken on by some users (not just the Berniesanders bot army) to actively work to prevent the wealth from being built up by a few so that more can go to other users. Now without the specifics, I am not certain whether daily reward caps are being reached in steemit or not. You made the argument on why there wasn't an upvote spread to other authors though and the reason is to not deplete the daily reward pool. Now it is slightly hypocritical for the berniesanders bot to add to the reward pool and then take a large cut (then again many agree with that understanding that berniesanders is, I believe, the only whales to take on Dan and kind of survive) So while many may disagree, or agree, with the bot army and its goals, it isn't without reason that downvotes were made. My best advice is, if you want, flag his post to show him you do not like his methodology (as he stated in his post as its just a throwaway account for him) and not complain like this (this is how other users get onto the flag for no reason at 100%)
I am not saying to accept it but to work with the system. Sanders is powerful and attempting to make an enemy out of him, no matter how many minnows or dolphins support you, will result the same way as his other battles ended. As I said, flag his post to show your disagreement and if there is enough support he will change, he isn't here to ruin steemit but make steemit better, he just does so in a tough love kind of way.

I haven't attempted to make an enemy out of anyone. I (mistakenly) believed my work had been flagged because of quality issues (loosely speaking) and if the flagger had posted on my blog why he had flagged my posts, maybe this would have all been avoided.

I took the flag (mistakenly) as an act of spite or vitriol against me and I've been put right on that score. An easy mistake to make, of course, but by the time I'd wrapped my head around it, the posts were made and the damage was done. As I said, however, in passing, perhaps as he was flagging without reading (and upvoting without reading is apparently frowned upon) then maybe a word of explanation wouldn't have gone amiss?

I disagree, if everybody would flag things he does not like it is a good thing. It is just that it seems the counter measure of authors being voted on because of author_name shouldn't be to take the same bad approach and turn them around.

So I dont like Bernie and Transistor just blcklisting people. I think they should search Steem and correct payouts where they see fit.

well how much post i read from you it was a nice post and i do not like some one to flag you with no proper reason . and for the flagging steem should provide and team that they review the post after some one got flag and they remove the flag if they did not found any proper reason ?

I didn't intend for my comments to take center stage in the drama, though I was trying to be helpful in explaining how the actual blockchain works and what expectations we may have that don't fit with reality.

I hope my contributions were helpful. To the extent they weren't, feel free to ignore them.

Your comments gave a lot of people hope, @lukestokes. If anything negative came from them, it was far outweighed by the positive.

Hey @michelle.gent! Since you participated in Steemfest² you may have been at the developers' panel (day 1 - room 1).

There was one steemian asking the developers about their take on downvotes. @sneak gave a very wise and valuable response here that may help you to better understand the dynamic of the system and somehow learn to deal with situations like the one you mentioned:

Downvotes don't take anything away from you that you don't have. Voting is not completed until all votes have been cast.

If you want to watch the corresponding sequence:

Sometimes we just need to do one step back and realize that everything we have achieved and that we will ever accomplish here is a huge gift...:-)

Steem on!

Hey @surfermarly, I was there and I heard that. I've already taken that step back after discussing things with @ats-david to be honest.

I was looking at the flag as disapproval of my work when it has since become plain that it's not what this is about at all.

Thanks for taking the time to stop by and help clarify things. I do appreciate it.

I was looking at the flag as disapproval of my work.

We shouldn't ever do that :-)
Steem on, Michelle!

You have been flagged, likely because you are attempting to take advantage of the reward pool. Please see my daily post for more detailed reasoning. Thank you.

I can only dream getting big as you are rn

Give it a year.

I joined in August 2016.

So-It-Begins.gif

Hi @michelle.gent, I hope things are ok. Like you I have no clue about this supposed war (hell I don't even understand half the jargon being thrown around here with minnows, whale and such) but I am on the understanding that Steemit is open to postings , all posting and you are rewarded for your posts as people see fit (up, down and sideways as far as I know). So why has everyone suddenly got a beef going on? Anyway stay strong and know that some of us plankton (seeing people are using fish jargon) are rooting for you.

Anyway stay strong and know that some of us plankton (seeing people are using fish jargon) are rooting for you.

That just made this all worth it.

Thanks @hmt.

i up vote your post please up vote back .....

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  ·  2 years ago (edited)

I think someone should compare the payouts on all the posts about cryptocurrency stuff (some quite repetitive) and compare them to the overall payouts of categories like fiction. It would be especially interesting to see the value-per-word and payout-per-viewer. Because the way I see it? Steemit started out as a crypto-enthusiast blogging platform focused on crypto topics, and some are really keen to keep it that way.

Indeed, I think this is the main issue with the platform. That it's too focused on crypto. While it is expected to start like that due to the fact that it's based of it, not exploring other ideas won't expand it. Gaming grew a bit, at least from what I see with my own blog. Those post do alright, but when I post stuff that I consider just as interesting (or more), like space related stuff, they bomb...

Meh, with time it'll grow if dolphins and whales allow it to expand.

But... but... but... wouldn't that mean there wouldn't be anything else to read? Just endless navel-gazing crypto info until everyone on the whole platform knew exactly the same amount of stuff and there'd be no need for anyone else to post?

Sounds like the gene puddle would become stagnant pretty quick...

Variety is the spice of life!

It's surprising to hear the assertion that this "started out as a crypto-enthusiast blogging platform."

When I first heard of it, in a YouTube interview with Dan and Ned, they stressed that this was in many ways a publishing venture, on which people with a wide variety of interests could post interesting and informative text, photos, vids.

If it were limited to crypto-enthusiasts, it would not have grown as much as it has. Even though I've been following the crypto world for 5 years and have held bitcoin for almost that long, there's no way that I would have joined Steemit if it were simply a crypto-blog. And I'm sure the same is true for thousands of other current Steemians who are not necessarily crypto-enthusiasts, but still have plenty to offer to the platform and to their fellow Steemians.

We don't understand all things crypto, and our interests are not limited to such.

As I've said before re Steemit, it's a great place where we can let a hundred flowers (followers!) blossom, and a thousand schools of thought contend.


One more observation. I believe that most witnesses and whales are granted certain powers to essentially determine what and who is rewarded and supported. For a platform that is supposed to be meritocratic, that seems to be granting excessive power to those few individuals.

They may have earned that power, but that does not mean that that power will never be abused.

Here's a simple experiment: look at the trending page. Count the posts that are NOT about cryptocurrencies or steemit itself. Myeah. That.

@techslut, the trending page is roughly 50% steem/crypto/etc (tons of topics) and 50% everything else(tons of topics)
While there still is a disparity from different posts, the fact of the matter is that berniesanders (I know you recently had a big run in with him) is actively fighting this exact type of behavior to promote other categories. While I agree it would be interesting to see an analysis of the mean payouts per topic as a function of length, what you will find is that crypto will drop a lot due to the vast amount of crypto based posts that don't make money.

Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity. Instead of flag wars, these whales can take the time to set up a community curation task force to reward unnoticed authors and attract new and engaged users to the platform. They have enough SP to empower such an effort AND profit from it. A lot more than they are profiting from singling out specific users, like Michelle and myself. It's kinda why bernie stopped downvoting me - it was a waste of his resources.

The problem with a purely curation approach is that there simply isn't enough SP (there is only 250,000,000 steem, in total, in existence) and because there is only so much steem there is also a daily maximum amount to be rewarded. Nobody wants us to hit maximum because if we do then posts simply won't be able to be rewarded, or they will have to be rewarded out of other means (remember how the German market was after they started printing marks after WW1?) The point is flagging can help prevent us from hitting the daily cap which was less of a problem 1 year ago (or more) but now with the current user base we have actual problems surrounding this. As for bernie downvoting you... Based off of his estimated, and previous, wealth that he has spread around god knows how many bots... He could honestly set up a bot with a few million vests just to downvote you and it would never affect him, he has been trading steem and SP internally and externally (changing it to other crypto currencies) meaning we no longer know exactly how much wealth he has invested into his bot army (as we don't know if he has other bots that he hasn't powered up through steemit).

What about initiatives like utopian? By encouraging high quality moderated content (specifically open source stuff) with the SP they got from ned, they've contributed to the community. Not taken from it. I think we need 10 utopians on the steem blockchain. One for books and stories, one for articles and science stuff, one for personal blogs and one for art... you get my idea. I don't care about cryptocurrency stuff, but it'll still be there in the trending section for the tag "writing". It isn't on utopian.

It's a battle on 2 fronts: reducing the payouts on spam, voting circles and scammers on one side, and creating an interface and reasonable incentive for quality content creators on the other. It's nothing simple, but worth seeing how it develops.

Not powering down just yet. :)

I agree that creating initiatives like utopian would work if implemented correctly which there are curation groups doing just that, it just comes to people getting together. I think that if curation trails got extremely popular with support then things would work, and if we kept Uncle Sanders and Steem cleaners around to handle spam, plagiarism, etc then we would ultimately benefit as a community, but for this to work we would need the whales on board and not all of them want to cooperate with eachother, let alone dolphins, minnows, and little reds.

  ·  2 years ago (edited)

Curation groups still rely on the same platform where finding quality content is, and I've said this before, like finding a needle in a haystack of shitposts. Utopian only displays utopian posts that are moderated and rewarding according the platform moderators' perception of contribution.

What I am trying to say is that developers contributing through utopian don't need to know about some girl's pretty selfie. And the girls uploading mostly selfies usually care little about open source development. And so, these two types of content just shouldn't be under the same "roof", especially not one as badly designed as steemit.com Something more redditlike would have been easier on us all, I believe.

  ·  2 years ago Reveal Comment

I don't get why people whine about flags it is like or dislike and we are using social media for 10 years. Just a simple mechacnism but whining posts are quite popular.

But apparently you don't mind posts where people casually insult each other??!?

everyone want to vote back but many people to ignore your post steemit friends not make a good friends

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banner.gifThis COMMENT has been DOWNVOTED by @miti for its content. I'm not a BOT and my aim is to clear posts by trolls and spammers. Want to support me? Upvote this comment, delegate SP to me or make a donation. I need more Steem Power to clean as many posts as possible. Thanks!

If you do want to report a spammer or troll, reply to his comment with "@miti downvote"

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  ·  2 years ago (edited)Reveal Comment

I watched as that rolled in. What an awesome sight - it gladdens my heart! Thank you.

This is the magic Steem was once for me and should be for all again, "first we kneel, then we rise!" , today we lift you up lady Michelle and honour your place and history on the blockchain.

Thank you!

You cannot imagine how this makes me feel right now. I was feeling a bit isolated out here on this limb I've clambered out on... now?

Wow!

This will only grow, magic, peace, love, passion and abundance should be what Steem should be about, not squabbles over scraps of reward pool which sends a message that there is no abundance under the hood and why would people flock here? The Steem price escalated once as post values increased and the world could see the amazing values being earned on Steem, that is the only way to get on track is to bring back the magic.

Let me know if anyone else needs help and let people know they can join together as one force on Steemvoter Guilds. Keep well.

I'll take a little time to process all this, but of course, I'll be telling people about this Knight in Shining Armour movement.

THANK YOU so much!

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It's easy to see abundance everywhere when you're simply reselling and using others stake.

wow geez I was left too far behind... How am I going to catch up. I was just like ran out of ideas.
Thanks lets steemit steemians

I will be joining your guild, I use your service for upvoting when I can't be on the net. I don't understand how the guild works. I just bought 3 months of premium service.

You have been flagged, likely because you are attempting to take advantage of the reward pool. Please see my daily post for more detailed reasoning. Thank you.

Bernie, you know I really respect you but we've knocked heads before when you flag one of my favorite people who are quality posters and members of the community. Please stop this, go after the obvious vote farmers and circle jerks please!