reminds me of an argument I had with a statist the other day. He didn't understand when i said forcing anyone to do anything against their will is wrong. He said that it's ok to use force if someone is attacking you. had to explain how that's self defense but he kept saying i was wrong. He was using the scientific use of the word force as in an exertion of some kind. I ended up just saying ok... lets not use the word force. "It's never ok to make anyone do something against their will. it's always wrong to be the aggressor.