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RE: Convince Me Challenge Results and Anti-Vegan Arguments
I agree with you! I'm not 100% vegan either according to the definition, because I also eat cruelty free eggs from time to time. It's the only animal product I eat. That's why I prefer to say cruelty free =) I'm glad to hear that you feel good, and I hadn't hear about that latest scandal in Bastogne...but yes it's very scary!
About Bastogne, if you type "Veviba" in each Belgian newspaper, you will find the whole story.
And yes... it is scary and somehow makes me laugh as beef is supposed to be THE meat to eat for a real Belgian / Belgatarian. At least, that's how it is promoted, but the boomerang returns :)
OMG! Am I listening to some fairy tale! What are these cruelty-free eggs? Would you like to explain it to me? Is it something like a mock-meat?
Sure! They're just eggs from happy chickens =). The owner of the property where I live has a lot of chickens and sometimes we get eggs from them. They are completely free and are not slaughtered for meat (just in case!) =)
I dunno what you're saying. You probably know that the term "eggs from happy chickens" is a misnomer. Just think from where did the owner get the layers in the first place? Obviously, some hatchery. And hatcheries always slaughter all the male chicks as they can never lay eggs and are considered "industrial waste".
And what do your vendor do with the spent hens? Hens have an average life pan of 7 years but are generally spent within a couple of years. So do you think they die a natural death?
Apart from severe sufferings of the mothers of layers in the commercial hatcheries, free-range hens too are over-exhausted with over-production of eggs. In nature, a wild hen will lay only about 15-20 eggs a year. Check with your neighbour, how many eggs do they get from their hens in a year.
Finally, hens don't get to hatch their own eggs and all those eggs are stolen for human consumption.
Many small farmers too use artificial insemination for improving the fertility rate and to get more eggs.
In case you say that layers are never purchased from hatcheries, then these farms need to hatch some chicks from their eggs too. So what happens with male chicks is anybody's guess.
Even if chicks are not slaughtered (though it's difficult to believe as it will make about 80% of the chicks non-productive over a period of time and will raise the cost of raising them manifold over), it doesn't grant us any right to steal their eggs. How can it be called cruelty-free is beyond me!
If the only purpose you buy them under the guise of those being cruelty-free is either taste, convenience or nutrition then you must be aware that these days there are so many alternative recipes available on the internet to receive all these benefits and pleasures from plant-based dishes too. However less you may be consuming those eggs, we shouldn't term them as cruelty-free and strive to eliminate their consumption at a personal level. Would like to know your reason to consume eggs.
I was expecting that comment =). My whole diet is plant based aside from the occasional egg.
I live on a remote island in Panama, and there are no hatcheries here, and chickens are not commercialized. All is very rural. The chickens roam free and die from natural causes in the jungle (aka snakes and other predators, or disease etc). They also reproduce freely. Of course I realize my situation is not mainstream, and that it's not the case for most people.
Chickens lay eggs regardless of whether there is a rooster or not (technically eggs are the period of the chicken!), so the unfertilized eggs would go to waste otherwise. I've seen this first hand finding rotten eggs lying around. If my scenario were any different I would not do it. I hope that explains it =)
Interesting to hear that. You live in a beautiful place ...right in the laps of Nature herself..
Nevertheless, I still don't agree with the cruelty-free part.
Almost all industries start in a similar fashion. Initially, there wasn't any cruelty involved in the dairy or wool industry too, from that perspective.
But the truth is that since everyone can't access such "cruelty-free" produce everytime and everywhere, the seed is sown for the commercialization of animal farming. Even Panama is continuously seeing an increase in demand during past years and is currently importing poultry, eggs and other animal products, feed etc. to meet its rising demand. The next step is to set up commercial farms and the Government there is already helping to make this happen soon with several subsidies and improvement in infrastructure.
So even if you think that your consumption of animal products is benign, it doesn't set a good precedence for others. And when something is short in quantity, it becomes a luxury. And when it gains the status of luxury, prices gets higher and commercial farming becomes a profitable opportunity.
By the way, how do you recognize an unfertilized egg from a fertilized egg since both looks the same? In fact, even birds can't recognize the one from the other.
Actually, if you will look into the history of chickens in your area, you will probably find that they are not natural breed but these breeds were manipulated to produce unfertilized eggs by humans. Birds in wild rarely lay any unfertilized eggs. Bird would lay eggs only in their respective breeding season.
Unfortunately, because of human manipulations, these domesticated breeds of hens are forced to produce huge quantity of unfertilized eggs which is not natural and not good for their bodies in the long run. So cruelty is intrinsic in the production of eggs. Over time humans will keep devising ways to increase their harvest from these birds.
Beside this, all birds and animals should live "free" from the subservience of the humans in any way. Why should we need to dominate upon these beings? Let them live their life independent of humans in the wild.
Currently, I can guess that it must be a very small percentage of incidents of chicks being killed by a snake or a predator because its "owner" won't like it to happen. It's a loss to him / her. So every effort to protect them will be made by the owner.These living beings are considered as a personal property with a sense of ownership. That's where exploitation begins.
I'd like to write a few more things here but I know you know it all and this reply too is on expected lines. So no point in going on further 😊.
So tell me how's like living on an island? Isn't fishing in a sustainable way considered human? Fish must be a prominent part of the diet there. How do you deal with such a scenario on a day to day basis?
Wow much to say about this =) We could chat in discord, but just real quick, I do not agree with fishing and for me, the killing of animals is never humane or acceptable even if it's "sustainable" in my opinion.
Great! Will catch you some other time ...but do not forget 😉