PROPOSAL: INCREASE VISIBILITY of POSTS through RANDOMISATION

in utopian-io •  2 years ago  (edited)

THE 'ISSUE' WITH POST VISIBILITY


One of the major issues at Steemit for many of the users is visibility of their posts. Steemit and others user interfaces to the Steem blockchain have very easy to reach channels supporting the popular posts, however lack easy to use channels for the somewhat lesser popular posts, which are probably more than 99% to even 99,9% of all posts published onto the Steem blockchain.

We all know that the popularity of posts does not have to do anything with the value and quality of the posts. When a post is not popular, it does not have to do anything with the value and quality of the post, also. An unpopular post may even be of super high value and quality, but ends up in the historical pile of posts without any vote and/or comment.

We also know that most high rewarded posts gets these rewards due to, auto voters voting for each published post by some author, and the fact they are visible in the HOT and TRENDING channels.

The combination of auto votes AND subsequently the post visibility in the HOT and TRENDING channels result in these posts getting even more rewards, sometimes posts in these channels are getting votes days after publication... While posts not visible in these channels, receiving votes after some hours to half a day or day is very rare.

INTRODUCING A MORE EQUAL PLAYING FIELD

RANDOMISE OUR CHANNELS


To create a bit more equal playground for all those posts not ending up in HOT and TRENDING channels, why don't we change a couple of things in our user interface in such a way the long tail of posts get a somewhat higher visibility, and the popular posts get a little bit less attention?

My proposal is to remove the HOT and TRENDING channels from the Steemit main screen. Like shown in image below.

image: Steemit screenshot - removal of TRENDING & HOT channels (source)


At the same time we introduce a RANDOM channel (see image below) in which posts within their vote time, are shown in RANDOM order to the user. Every time the button to the RANDOM channel is pressed, posts are shown in a different RANDOM order.

If you wish, the posts with some tag maybe priorities based on users preferences, but that requires the introduction of tag preference settings for the user. That in itself is a different topic and I'll not discuss that further in this post.

image: Steemit screenshot - introduction of random channel (source)


Our "My Feed" channel shows posts of the users we follow, in time chronological order. My proposal is to:

  1. Show the posts of users we follow in RANDOM order, ie not in time chronological order anymore >> most of the users have so many posts in "My Feed" that it is questionable all the new posts are actually viewed; showing all these posts - every time when "My Feed" is visited - in RANDOM order gives more equal chances to all posts to be discovered
  2. Mix RANDOM posts from users not followed into "My Feed" >> This gives an opportunity for all the other posts on the Steem blockchain to be discovered

image: Steemit screenshot - mix random posts into 'My Feed' (source)


The TAG channels have a very similar setup as the main (TAG-less) channel. TAG channels also have HOT and TRENDING channels.

Same proposal here: remove the HOT and TRENDING channels and introduce a RANDOM channel.

image: Steemit screenshot - apply same concept to TAG channels (source)


It will be great if we can make these changes in such a way, we can go back to the old situation in case these changes turns out not to be good at all (although I doubt it, since I'm pretty sure this more random approach to post visibility will increase vote distribution).

We shall test with the changes for a period of time; I leave it up to the designers and owners of the Steemit user interface, how long the testing period should be, but I suggest at least two months.

When the changes turn out to be good, determined by analysing vote distribution and feedback from the community - amongst others - then these changes shall also be implemented at all other user interfaces using the Steem blockchain (eg Busy.org, Steepshot, Zappl and so on).


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The Trending and Hot tabs are nearly useless, but practically every site has them. We shouldn't get rid of them. Perhaps we shouldn't have them prominently displayed though.

Your idea for a Random tab could be interesting and fun. There have been sites and extensions that show random sites and have been highly successful.

If we randomized people's feeds, it would really piss them off, and make it impossible to keep up with your friends. Adding a few random posts in occasionally might be good though.

You don't have to do it completely random though. You could do it based on the statistics of posts you've upvoted. Either you could do it very basic, where the tags you tend to upvote have a higher chance of ending up in your feed, or you could do it based on the words in the posts you upvote. In any case, there is potential for something similar to this.

You have some valuable feedback. Surely, absolutely Random will not help, but indeed, giving lower and higher chances for post to get some position. Wrt My Feed: posts are coming in at time chronological order and my suggestion is to shuffle them a bit. I actually dont think many Steemians use the My Feed to follow all those they follow. Too many Steemians follow way too many users for that. Reality is that those posts that are on top of the list gets the attention, the further down the list, the less chance to get noticed. Trending and Hot channels drives votes to those posts that already got rewarded a whole lot. I have a personal experience with that. One of my posts about two weeks ago, number 2 position in HOT channel, and somewhere in the top 30 of Trending channel, and it is the first post for two weeks in the dsound channel (dsound resteemed it). This post got soooooo much engagement + votes, and even now the post is about a week out of vote period, it still gets votes, from newbies. This is my personal real life case that is happening on a much larger scale in Steemit. Newbies vote for TRENDING posts. Most posts in TRENDING are getting there due to auto voters, therefore almost always the same authors in TRENDING. Once there, the posts stay there for quite a bit of time collecting lots of additional votes, just because the post is op in TRENDING. I have all sort of theories why those posts are voted for by newbies and small SP holders, and one of them is probably THE reason: to get noticed with the hope a powerful author will come to their blog and give a fat vote.

Yeah, and if they moved trending off the top, to in the side menu, and probably hidden in a submenu, it would have almost the same effect as just getting rid of it.

You make a good point about randomization of the feed. But I like them being in chronological order. Maybe a radomize button would be good though.

I love this idea. I am behind any initiative that promotes good content be rewarded!

Super! Although introducing more randomness doesn't mean good content will be more rewarded, the removal of TRENDING and HOT channels ill at least take easy routes away to reward those posts that generally end up in these channels. In the end, human manual curation and responsible rewarding, is required for good content to be rewarded. While self voting services (all the vote buy services for instance) are counterproductive to valuing good content; But that is a hole different topic :)

Where do I sign?

  ·  2 years ago (edited)

We have to convince a lot of people! Like the witnesses, like STINC or whoever owns to code of Steemit/Condenser. We also have to convince the owners of other Steem Blockchain interfaces to adopt the changes, and also STINC (I suppose) since they may have to adopt some changes to the Steem blockchain and/or its APIs, and/or its terms and condition to the APIs. But, lets see where this posts will end up. I addressed the witnesses and developers through the tags, and left this post at one of our witnesses posts asking for feedback from that particular witness as well as the request to talk about this topic and proposal with the collective of witnesses.

Thank you for the contribution. It has been approved.

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Thanks!

I really like your suggestions and the view count and votes on this post are a great reflection of why the system isn't working for the vast majority of it's users and that quality is going unnoticed.
The trending page is setting a very bad exceptions for new users coming to the site. When they realise that their amazing posts are going unnoticed I would understand them leaving steemit.

I particularly like the idea of randomising posts as it would give everyone a chance to be in the lime light.
When I dig deeper I find some amazing work on this platform and the twenty or so authors continually on the trending page need more competition to be visible in order to show that quality can win over in the end.

Thanks for this post, I am glad that others are thinking as I do about this major bug in the system.

Hahahaha, You call it a major BUG. Nice one! I should have published the post under BUG then with Utopian, not as a suggestion LOL. Well, Utopian just approved the post, so that may get a little more visibility to it. Thanks for sharing your opinion, and I do fully agree with you.

I agree that trending is stupid and should go. Hot however I think can be valuable.

My problem I guess is the idea of randomizing things. Being a curator on steemit. I see a LOT of trash... Like ....

A LOT

The "new" channel is about as random as it gets and it is pretty painful to go through lol.

I think instead of removing "trending or hot" being able to rearrange posts based on certain criteria might be nice.

You have a very good point, pure Random is probably not the way to go. I experience exactly the same as you when manually curating, a LOT of SH*T. Maybe we shall add some kind of 'quality' rating system. Not sure how that would look like, need to think about it.

I think it would be interesting to filter content based on REP. Like categories...
< 24
25-40
41-50
51-60
61-70
71 <

One thing that gets me about Steem is that how content is only viable for seven days. Scroll through a lesser tag and it is either empty or sparse.

I’d love to see some recommends post sections. “You might also like.” Perhaps split into votable and archive sections.

If I’m not wrong, comment threads still accumulate value after the main post has paid? I think it is worth holding onto what has been, not just discarding the over week old. It’s not just about the rush for cash, it’s about saying something worthwhile.

  ·  2 years ago (edited)

Very good suggestion on the recommended posts; Not sure how it can be implemented in an automated way, something we need to think about!

Yeh, indeed, any comment lives for 7 days wrt being able to convert votes into rewrds, well 6 days and 12 hours to be exact, since in the last 12 hours of the 7 days, the post/comment does not except votes anymore.

I would love to see post being able to collect rewards endless in time, but I suppose their are other considerations that may prevent that, maybe even technical ones. Before we had 1 and 30 days payout times, and after 30 days no rewards on post, but that was changed to 1 payout time, this 7 days.

This is where the algorithm masters come in I would imagine!

I think the benefit in good related posts is that it could at least flag you some interesting people to follow.

Busy.org interface is doing something on the front of usrs to follow. Not sure what their algorithm is.

Possibly something as simple as “your favourite people also follow” type thing.

Hi @edje. Could you brief me how I remove trending and hot? I try to figure it out and I also resteemed your post! Thank you again for another great advice.

You cannot, unless you re-develop the Steemit user interface. The post is a call to those who can do that, and a call to the community to support that idea.

Ah!! I was looking like hell! :) I hope you have an awesome day!! We flying next week to Bali. Staying one month and than moving in a camper in Japan for two weeks until we flying to Costa Rica. A lot of good sounds! What are you planning these days?

WOW, you gonna do a great tour around the world! I'm at home, working and in between working trying to have a little pleasure :)

Let me know if I ever come close to where you live and we go for a coffee or techno club :)
We do this as long as we can and the main focus is that we stay healthy and don't have any accidents.

  ·  2 years ago (edited)

Cool! :) The Netherlands is were I'm, most of the time in and we have some fine techno clubs in the country! Also some good places for coffee :) So, yeh, inform me when you are near.

Ah nice :) Yeah lets hang out in the Boiler Room then!! I let you know when we are around again.

Enjoy the travels!

You have a very good point
I think when the steem organisation goes with your suggestion, every steemian will be happy on the site.
That will make steem more fun and helpful.
Nice idea.
Anyway am new here , please follow back and secondly, i have a ton of new posts on my blog that really needs upvotes because they are helpful.
Thanks for hearing me out.
Love

Thank you for your support and feedback. Tip: dont ask for follows, dont ask for upvotes. Create your own follower base, engage with others, and they will come to your posts, eventually. It takes time, so be patient. But dont beg; That is not done (although many do it, but mainly newbies, and the not so newbies may even flag such comments asking for follows and votes, at least they will not followup your requests).

Hey @edje I am @utopian-io. I have just upvoted you!

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followed, good idea. something needs to be done with the promotion around here, it is like upside down world.

check out privacyworkshop when you get a chance, #1-8 are at around 33k words, with original memes etc.