How to become a stakeholder in AGORAS and indirectly Tauchain
Disclosure: I am involved with the Tauchain project and hold AGRS tokens.
How to become a stakeholder in AGORAS and indirectly Tauchain
In my posts I've mentioned expert systems, decentralized AI, personal agents, and more. In these discussions you may have noticed I keep mentioning the Tauchain project and many people may be interested in knowing how to get a stake in that project. Keep in mind, this post is not about "investments" and is not for "investors" but is about acquiring a stake and geared more toward the type of people who see the big picture of what decentralized AI can do for the world (and for themselves economically).
AGORAS is the smart market, the intelligent market place, the knowledge market, the market where you can buy computation. In essence, owning AGORAS is owning a stake in a very important future project being developed by Ohad Asor. In particular, if you think of artificial intelligence as a means of production, as an asset, then AGORAS could be a productive asset and could easily have a very high market cap. If we take a look for instance at Golem we will find it already has a $43 million dollar market cap without even an alpha release (and that is with a billion tokens and a substantial "pre-allocation"). If we look at AGORAS we see a market cap of close to $5 million dollars. Is there a good reason why Golem has a $43 million dollar market cap while AGORAS has close to $5 million?
It is in my own opinion that AGORAS is way under priced, Golem is way over priced, or perhaps a combination of the two. AGORAS has only 42,000,000 intermediate tokens which can ever exist. What that means is that if AGORAS merely reached the same market cap as Golem it would mean each token is over $1. Currently each AGORAS token goes for around 11 cents. I would expect that if Ohad even can get an alpha to work as a proof of concept the AGORAS token can reach over $1.
This is not about speculating on the price because for those of us who find the utility of Tauchain and AGORAS intriguing we will have no intention of selling these tokens for BTC, ETH, or the USD any time soon if ever. AGORAS tokens can be used to build automated businesses (not all that different from DAOS/DACs but in such a way that you don't require a crowd sale or any of the risks associated with trusting programmers. With AGORAS you do not have to trust the programmer, and anyone can develop your blueprint into reality if you have enough tokens. What this means is these tokens represent a lot of productivity, and for that reason even without the potential for AI these tokens will have value if Ohad and others agree to develop in exchange for these tokens. And because these tokens will represent CPU cycles they'll for sure have some value as will the Golem token.
Interested parties, secure your stake and get 15% extra
Stakeholders want to secure a percentage of the pie. What percentage of the 42 million tokens do you think would be enough for yourself, your family, and or your potential projects which you want to develop over AGORAS? If you intend to be a developer or if you believe Ohad can build Tauchain then the AGORAS token can be purchased today as a way to reserve your percentage stake before the price rises. Of course a lot could go wrong and maybe Tauchain never gets developed but if it does then having your tokens now will mean you wont have to earn them by selling your CPU cycles, or programming in exchange.
Ohad recently announced token lock up incentives. Ohad stated: " another way to get the 15% discount, is simply not to move your tokens from the 1st of march which is about two weeks from now (this doesn't hold for tokens held on bittrex). i'll write it publicly somewhere.". In addition to simply not moving your tokens, Ohad also will be willing to accept payment directly and hold the tokens until the release of AGORAS. So that means long term stakeholders will be rewarded with additional stake at a rate of 15%.
AGORAS tokens can only be purchased on Bittrex or directly from Ohad
Perhaps one of the reasons for the low price is the fact that you cannot buy AGORAS anywhere but on Bittrex, direct from Ohad, or possibly on OpenLedger. AGORAS are not on any of the major exchanges geared toward speculators and for now maybe it's best that it isn't because it gives the people who truly want to use Tauchain and AGORAS (developers, power users, researchers, entrepreneurs) a chance to get ahead of the rush of speculators.
The link to purchase AGORAS on Bittrex: https://bittrex.com/Market/Index?MarketName=BTC-AGRS
If you think in percents: 1% of 42 million tokens is 420,000 tokens which would cost $46,200.
I'm not trying to sound like a hype man but if tau chain succeeds, forget it i dont have the capacities to imagine what could happen. is just exiting to me. Anyways, I truly hope Ohad is getting help because I think this task could become a really stressful thing. Hopefully this post dont put pressure on ohad, I would him like to work and not worry about market value. a big hug, from harlem,nyc
What are the main ways in which it's different from Golem?
Golem will not be able to effectively do artificial intelligence. Golem isn't specifically being designed for AI. Golem is like AGORAS in some ways in that CPU resources can be sold but Golem is over Ethereum and will have to depend on Ethereum developers in order to scale. In addition Golem will likely be less secure because you'll have to trust the Golem developers along with the Ethereum developers which means a lot more people have to be trusted.
On Agoras you only have to trust one developer and that is Ohad. Once Tauchain is built and shown to be secure then every app written in the Tau language will be provably secure. Tauchain uses a technique called "program synthesis" and every app will be formally verified, or in another way of saying, correct by construction. The correctness paradigm is an information security paradigm which is relied upon by top class engineers and mathematicians, and correct by construction is what is often used to achieve correctness.
I could go into some more detail about the security benefits but even Ethereum developers know the risks of smart contracts. The majority of developers saw the risks with The DAO and are now trying to upgrade Ethereum over time to control these risks. Golem in my opinion will have a lower safety profile (more risky), could be less scalable (might have to compete with other smart contracts on Ethereum), and while it might be able to do AI by integrating likely into IPFS or by their own means, it's not specifically designed for AI.
That was a good question. No one has ever asked that as far as I can tell.
At this time, very few people understand the potential utility Tauchain can have. Agoras will only be an "application" on Tauchain but it will be built by Ohad and supported by many of the same people who will be building Tauchain. So the network effect will likely exist for Agoras.
If Tauchain for some reason does not get built then neither will Agoras but if it Tauchain does get built there is a strong possibility that somebody associated with Tauchain will build Agoras even if Ohad doesn't. Still at the end of the day owning Agoras tokens is putting your trust in Ohad because he is the only person who can bootstrap Tauchain. Once Tauchain is bootstrapped then Agoras monetizes it and applies the business/market aspects.
Thanks for your answer dana, I had a look at it, it seems very speculative, and endeavors to do a lot. Is there a way to hold tau chain currency directly rather than Agoras?
Also, where can I get an Agoras wallet and be entitled to the discount?
Tauchain has no token. Tauchain is primarily a programming language so it's like holding a token in C++ or Java or Python, there is no need. But Agoras is the first app Ohad promises to build on Tauchain. If Tauchain can get built (and that is speculative) then Agoras will be rather easy to build on top compared to the challenge of building Tauchain itself. So really by buying Agoras token you are funding the development of Tauchain indirectly, and if it is successful you get a stake in Agoras. The wealth is in the network effect Agoras is likely to have but it's a risk and if you don't have a lot of resources I would not suggest you take these kinds of risks.
If you have time and skills you might have an easier time working with Ohad to earn Agoras tokens. Earning a stake is possible, and being a developer early on will also allow you to secure your position and with it a stake in Tauchain itself because you can just make your own project with it's own token.
You want to use Omniwallet: https://www.omniwallet.org/
Send your Agoras tokens to an Omniwallet address and you'll be fine. Don't send to any wallet which you cannot control the private keys (like Coinbase). To be entitled to a discount simply don't move your tokens or you can buy directly from Ohad and he will hold them on your behalf until Agoras launches. Of course that is a risk but if you don't want to have to manage them then it's an option.
hmm I just sent some tokens into the omniwallet btc address, and I don't think it worked lol, I guess there's some middle step where you have to create an address for your argoras tokens as well? Ah well I think I lost my tokens lol
EDIT: Oh, it seems to have come in, strange how this works, so I can just send my IDNI argoras to my omniwallet bitcoin address and it works?
Yes you send it to your Omniwallet Bitcoin address and then you wait to see what Ohad does. If it works out then you'll redeem them.
Ok, this is the first time I've invested a small amount into something so speculative and far fetched
We'll see if yo have a good eye for these things Dana =) Lets see where this Lof type theory incomplete but consistent language leads. Part of me wishes I had never known about Godel's incompleteness theory and would likely have never invested in this lol
I'm more than an investor but am a stakeholder. The difference is investors buy and wait. Stakeholders buy and or earn and then systematically bring as much value as they can to help make it happen.
Now you're a stakeholder too. So the best thing you can do is wait for the opportunity where you can increase the value of your effort. I know you're talented at writing so if a time comes where Tauchain is a thing then you would be someone who can be an alpha tester. Your feedback would help make it better.
Haha I mostly just write satirical commentary with pedantic attempts at jokes.
I don't hold anywhere near as much AGORAS to consider myself a stakeholder, but if it goes into alpha testing I'll be happy to write a couple of more light hearted pieces promoting it when I have a bit of a foothold here in Steemit.
The part of me that's kicking myself for quitting computer science back in university (my foot I guess) greatly respects the endeavor upon which Ohad is embarking and I just bought a few tokens to show my support.
Thank you for alerting me to this very interesting project.
Hi dana, we can need some help of your talents in writing/editing the wp. Link is in irc channel if you don't know yet.. Thanks so much for believing in this great project. I also believe in Ohad's work. ##idni. :-)
if we still transfer tokens bought on Bittrex into an Omniwallet address at this point, will there still be a 15% discount - or is that offer closed now?
I believe as long as you don't move them then yes but post on Bitcointalk and ask Ohad to clarify.
I don't get it then how are we gonna get a discount if we already bought them on Bittrex..?
You can deposit and withdraw Agoras on OpenLedger. There is no-one selling any at the moment, but I might try to fix that soon in the AGRS:USD market.
This looks quite interesting, but highly speculative. Trusting one individual doesn't seem like a great plan to me. I'd like to know more, but it takes full teams to make projects like this successful. The website doesn't have much there.
Before Dan Larimer became well known, there was Protoshares. The people who bought Protoshares had to trust Dan Larimer exclusively to not only bring those Protoshares into Bitshares but to create value for those Protoshares.
And he did it. Because he did that, there was Bitshares 2.0, and eventually Steem. Now the rest is history but it always starts with trust somewhere and to someone. Once the ecosystem is built or the code is written then you don't have to trust as much or anyone in specific but someone has to built it.
Tau is a minimal trust programming language/platform, where once it is built then everyone can develop with it and on it. The main question is can it be built? Is it too complicated to be built? If it can be built then Agoras will be built rather easily, and not only will it be built, but it will be built collaborative. Ohad will have help building Agoras from hundreds of people in my opinion if not thousands depending on how many stakeholders want to get involved.
It's all speculative so I totally understand. It's why so few people are taking the risk and why it's so cheap. But if you look at Golem which is just as speculative and you see the market cap is $50 million dollars then you have to wonder how much Agoras is worth? Even for a speculator it might be an interesting gamble.
Thanks for the detailed response, Dana. How do you know Ohad? Has he done other things worthy of this level of trust? If you buy directly from him, does he use the market price? With so many scams in the crypto world, what gives you confidence this is different?
Protoshares is a great example. I remember friends saying I should get involved in that, but I held out. Based on what the price did, maybe I made the right decision. I bought STEEM at $0.25 and at $1 as it went up to $4. Maybe I should have held off then too.
Thanks again for replying.
I do not know Ohad very well on a personal level but I know him on a professional level. I know a bit about how his mind works, how he does research, how he arrives at his decisions, and the reason I trust his judgment is because his process is very similar to my process. So I can say I'm sure about these things:
Of course no one is perfect and most people as productive as him also have some traits which you might view as negative or difficult for other areas. But the traits necessary to be highly competent as a mathematician and programmer are not the same traits required to be competent at marketing for instance.
Take a look at Dan Larimer and you'll find another person who also is a diligent researcher, who is not afraid to change his mind when necessary, who is a naturally gifted learner and programmer. At the same time marketing is not his strong suit but he knows that. When Dan Larimer is surrounded by the right people then his projects become a tremendous success but from a technical perspective he is always ahead of the industry.
I'm confident that Ohad has the skills and motivation to complete the task he is given. I'm very confident in the design for Tauchain he has come up with as I've watched his process first hand. I've exchanged ideas with him as well and he's an ethical person. He's not irresponsible about what he is trying to do.
I used Protoshares as an example because Dan Larimer and Ohad Asor are similar. If you've worked with them both or interact with them both then you'll see they are both very smart, they both do a lot of research, they both take a rational approach to design, and they are both two of the best programmers you can find in this space. Dan Larimer put his good name on the line when he developed Protoshares. Ohad Asor is putting his good name on the line with Agoras. These are people who care about their reputations as much as I care about mine and I trust that aspect.
On the topic of Dan Larimer, when Dan Larimer first announced Protoshares I believe critical to his success was Charles Hoshkinson The same Charles Hoshkinson who I think was critical to the success of Ethereum. If we look at Dash we might say Amanda Johnson is critical to the success of Dash. Some people are natural introverts and when paired with a person who can handle the marketing, the Meetups, the background organizing, as Charles Hoshkinson is an expert at, then you have a recipe for success.
Charles Hoshkinson is one of the best in the industry at what he does. Amanda B Johnson is one of the best in the industry at what she does. I think Tauchain is missing something, missing someone, but I don't think Tauchain is missing researchers or the kind of stuff Ohad is doing. I think Tauchain is missing the sort of stuff Charles Hoshkinson and Amanda B Johnson can do, which is explain it to the masses, get people organized, attract developers, bring in or bridge between different projects where there is shared interests.
It's possible to build the most technically beautiful software, with the most utility, but then not be able to explain it outside academia, or not be able to explain it even to academia. I think Bitshares had the exact same complaints of people not being able to understand how it works and Dan Larimer not being able to make them understand. Steemit has been successful because it's so familiar and because everything is under the hood so people don't have to care how it works as long as they get rewards.
I would think Tauchain can go the stealth route as well. Early on it might be important to explain how it works but in general the majority of users don't need to care how it works. If something is very useful, has good marketing, good people associated with it, then generally few people care about what is under the hood, as is the case with Dash, Steemit, Ethereum, where most of the users don't know what a Patricia Tree is, or a Masternode, or Graphene.
Am I to late for this party? This Token is mow 156% up....WTF happened?