My super outdated (inspired by Steemit's UX) reaction to Steemit hard fork 0.17
This post's purpose is to discuss the upcoming hard fork 0.17.
I don't mean to insult anyone, but you know... I try to be funny when I feel insecure, so I hope my humor will be taken lightly. Also, I see some problems with an upcoming hard fork. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
If I don't comment on some changes from the hard fork 0.17, it means I have no thoughts about it or it is irrelevant to me at this very moment.
First problem
So how does one feel after reading hard fork 0.17?
Let's put it this way: a captain goes to his crew and says:
Crew, go to work. You will be painting all the cabins in new color.
Crew responds:
But captain, we are heading towards an iceberg and the ship is going to break. We should be working on more important things.
Please, guys. Just go to work. The cabins won't paint themselves. It is not a discussion.
Most ironic part is that those cabins were looking good... And the new paint is of bad quality.
So, yeah... The biggest problem is that Steemit is having a problem prioritizing things. With such 90s UX, they are focusing on rewards for comments and rewards for payouts. Sorry, I don't buy it.
Removing over posting rewards penalties
Great. I don't think it is a big problem now, but I guess it should be removed so that people who love posting links of funny cats would have full freedom.
I am completely serious when I say that we need those links with funny cats because that is how the internet works. That is what the masses want. Nobody gives a damn about me and my passion for poetry... Well, actually my mom does.
+1 for Steemit hard fork 0.17
Single payout period
7 days? I have been blogging for over 2 months here, usually making 1-3 posts per day. I never ever received an upvote which has been influential (I respect all my readers, but we are talking business here. Still love you, guys.) after 24 hours. To be honest, I think 90 percent of upvotes come in 2 hours. So 7 days, huh?
I will open up. I registered to Steemit only because I trust my brother. I didn't trust the platform in the beginning. You see, all the UX problems and relatively free money smell like a Ponzi scheme. However, rewards were coming in after just one day, so I gave it a shot.
So how did this idea go through in the Steemit management?
Guys, let's stretch the payout period to 7 days? It will not change a thing for existing users, but we will make sure to look like even a bigger scam to new users.
Yeah, great idea. Here is your promotion.
P.S. I don't say that 7 day period is bad in the world where people trust each other, but we are on Earth. Waiting for your money for 7 days does not sound attractive. It sounds fishy.
-4 for Steemit hard fork 0.17
Take a rest now. Look at me on the Devil's bridge, looking at all the opportunities that Steemit has.
Removing the comment nesting limit
Nice. I reached the limit couple of times and it sucked. So great idea.
+1 for Steemit hard fork 0.17
Independent comment reward pool
This is the biggest problem with this hard fork. I am actually pissed about it. The separate pool might be ok, but 38 percent at this moment? Outrageous.
Yes, I am a blogger here, so it means that I will receive less and I might be subjective... but it still sucks. Listen to this.
The main argument for awarding comments is to increase community engagement. Well, you need to have a community first, huh?
I mean, there is like 200 active members of which 100 are probably just someone's alt accounts. I might be overexaggerating. There might be 250 active members.
Another simplified example!
You have an empty house in the middle of nowhere. You want to have a great discussion, though. So you set a rule that everyone who talks will be receiving money instead of simply inviting new people. Remember that the house is still empty. Does your decision bring any engagement? I doubt it.
Yes, I am saying that Steemit might want to do some more marketing to increase the base of users, which would increase the engagement. This is a really unique concept and so many people would be down to join anytime... They just need to be told about it. Makes sense? Or is it just me who misses to see any efforts in marketing Steemit?
Oh, I almost forgot. 38 percent (golden ratio) will only cause all the spamming and bots upvoting. I bet that soon we will see "Me is interested this topic very informative" comments receiving 1000 upvotes. That is my prediction.
So... -7 to Steemit hard fork 0.17
Conclusion
Overall, Steemit hard fork scored -9 points. What scale is this? I have no idea, but it is negative. I just wanted to express my concerns.
After the hard fork, I will be losing my rewards to bots commenting random stuff. However, I will have to wait 7 days for those rewards to be paid. Oh, wait...
Disclaimer: I encourage you to share some thoughts about it. I might be wrong on so many levels and I will apologize if you prove me wrong. I would love to believe that those changes will be for the better, but I just don't. No offense intended to anyone.
Remember that if I did not believe in the future of all this, I would not be here. Mistakes are mistakes, though.
Hi @writingamigo - Thanks for sharing your thoughts. It is really helpful for people to be discussing these things! Nothing is set in stone yet :)
Regarding the UI, I have shared your concerns. The wish list project that I worked on has tons of suggestions for improving the UI. From a user experience perspective, I feel very strongly that the UI needs to be improved (a lot).
I've talked to the Steemit dev team quite a bit though, and they are well aware of this. From their perspective they want to focus on the 'foundation' things right now, and get those things right first. The fancy UI with all the bells-and-whistles will come later.
One of the proposed changes in the upcoming hardfork are going to make it a lot more attractive for other development teams (like busy.org) to come along and develop their own UIs for the blockchain. Once this is done, it will open up a lot of possibilities.
I know it is a frustrating experience to be on a 'sucky' UI that doesn't seem to be improving much, but the best I can say is be patient. I think the dev team is well aware of where we all want to be, and they are doing their best to get us there. It is just going to take some time.
When you say nothing is set in stone, do you mean that the changes discusses in this post are not certain to happen?
I hope this is the case because I have some serious worries about a couple of the proposed alterations.
I understand the motivation for amending the payout cycles. Over a one day period, it can be very difficult to end up with a slice of the pie when there have been other great posts that day. However, I feel that extending the payout cycle to 7 days could backfire and lead to users powering down.
Beyond that, with 7 day active cycles can you imagine how hectic post promotion on steemit.chat is going to get? It will become pointless to even try and promote your posts there because people will be posting like 10 at a time.
I feel that a 72 hour fixed cycle would solve the problem they are attempting to address. And adding a secondary 90 day cycle would incentivize users to stick around longer. I am rather worried about this 7 day cycle, but hope that my reservations are proven to be unfounded.
I also feel that 38% of the payout pool being allocated to the comments is an awful idea. At the moment, you can still be rewarded for comments. I have had 20 dollars on a few and lesser amounts on a lot.
The achievements that were spoken of on the road map, if selected correctly, will encourage user engagement dramatically. I don't see why it is necessary to address this issue now when it is already being addressed in future in a much more efficient manner.
There is barely enough in the daily pot as it is at the moment, and excellent posts can often struggle to gain rewards. This will increase the problem, which has already caused so many users to leave the platform. There are plenty of people on here who engage with users because they enjoy doing so. With this change, more people will be commenting, but not because they care to-- just because they want to get paid. I feel this will be reflected in the content and we will go from having a moderate amount of high quality user engagement, to having a very high amount of lazy or impassionate user engagement.
These are just a couple of problems I can anticipate based on the proposed amendments. It would be great if you could provide any information that could help to negate those worries, and also if you could tell me if and when these changes are going to be taking place.
I share your concerns. Both changes are very hard to predict how they will play out, and they definitely have the potential to make things worse.
I think they are looking at how they will affect things in the long run though, after other changes (like communities) are added later this year. How that will all play out is very hard to predict.
I don't have any info on the timeline, but I know they are working on the changes already. If I were to guess, I would say within the next month or two.
In the worst case scenario, the changes can always be tweaked, or completely rolled back.
It will definitely be a big change/adjustment. I am hoping that with good feedback from the community, the devs can settle on the right set of changes to move the platform forward positively.
Thanks for the clarification. I wondered if it was something that was happening right now. I consider this good news and I shall keep an eye out for any opportunities to offer feedback.
Have a great night-
Thanks, you too!
Hi @timcliff thanks for your insights. I really appreciate how you are always commenting with those insights! Keep it up!
As for the foundation things vs UI, I have some concerns. I am not a programmer, so I might be wrong here, but I feel that such a huge comments pool and changing rewards period is not setting any fundaments going forward. At least not from my point of view. It will make this platform look a little more fishy to new users.
I totally agree that proposal to engage new developers into building new UIs is a very nice thing. I am looking forward to this part!
I am patient. I still that this hard fork (if all the suggestions will be approved) is not going be beneficial for Steemit, but it is just my opinion based on very little information that I have. Nonetheless, I am glad to hear that all my concerns are being discussed. Next step is to fix it, I guess :).
If it was me, I would make UI at least more bearable for starters so that new users would not be discouraged to join the platform (people are spoiled these days). But it is just me. Let's see what Steemit Inc. has in mind. I want to believe that they know what are they doing.
Thanks for joining the discussion and I really value all your efforts towards improving things over here! Cheers!
There have actually been a lot of users that have been asking for comments to become more 'valued'. There have been lots of efforts to do so 'organically', but nothing seems to be encouraging users to vote there the same way that people do with posts. I think this is kind of an experimental solution to see if it can be improved by increasing the awards. I actually agree that the current proposal is too high. It is hard to know what the 'right' value is though. I've actually recently proposed that we make it a witness parameter, so the community (via witnesses) can easily change it based on conditions/feedback. We'll see if the idea gets any traction.
I'm undecided about the 7 day rewards pool myself. I agree with the current voting patterns anything significant after the first 24 hours is very rare. That may change with the addition of communities down the line. We'll have to wait and see. Also, your point about it seeming scammy is a valid one. I do think that this will become less of an issue though as the site scales and starts to become more mainstream. When my friends first joined they had to wait more than a week for the whole process of converting SBD to STEEM, then STEEM to BTC, then cashing out BTC. They stuck around to get paid though, and after that they didn't think it was a scam :)
As a developer I can relate to wanting to get the foundation right first.
Strange as it may seem people joining today are still "early adopters", I mean that in that I dont think steemit is ready for mainstream yet,, the site would become inundated with spam in no time at all.
It is still in beta, so we have to accept that. I also agree that foundation must be right before going big. However, from my perspective (knowing nothing about developing) it seems like changing payout period is building no foundation at all.
I would love to hear from so devs what is the impact of this decision behind the scenes, though. Maybe it has more sense.
Yeah, the ability to adjust a size of comments pool would be great. I would say it should be like 8 percent or so. You see, now you have a lot of people saying that comments should be more rewarded and after rewarding it, you will have many bloggers saying that articles should be more rewarded. Economy is never good for everyone.
I agree that Steemit will look less scammy with more time passing. As long as we all stand behind it with proves of it being a legit thing, it should be fine. But you know... the ajority of people is hard to please. However, I tend to agree. If Steemit will be growing into a right direction, there will be no more problems.
Maybe you have any info on when is 0.17 being implemented? If it is on the same time with communities, whole 7 days period might work. Or I should say that I cannot judge it, because things will be totally different with communities.
Yep, I agree.
They are working on it currently. I don't know when they plan to release it, but I suspect it will be fairly soon after they finish the changes. (It is hard to predict exactly how long that will take.)
Communities are not part of HF 17 though. They will come later. They are piecing things together one phase at a time. It will be hard to judge until they are closer to the 'final product'.
Thank you for the answer. At the moment I am not sad to see it taking a while. I still like it the way it is :D
Jokes aside, I hope to see it going through as smooth as possible
I don't get the 7 day payout period. Does it mean, potential payout will stay for 24 hours them you can keep earning after that for 7days or are that changing it to where your pay from a post will be potential payout until 7 days is reached?
At this moment it has been two periods - 24 hours and 30 days. Now it will be changed to 7 days. So it means that your first (and the only) payment from the post will be received after 7 days only. I tend not to like it...
In the same way that currently your payout can go up/down for 24 hours, and then once it is done it will 'clear', it will be changed so that it can go up/down for 7 days until it clears. If a whale upvotes your post on day 6, your earnings will go up.
Note too - that in the same way that the 24 hour window can actually go a bit beyond 24 hours, the 7 day window will be able to too.
The hardfork does seem to have some drawbacks. I post a lot of comments. Like ask a lot of questions and try to respond to the replies in my comments to invoke another reply. Not in discussion board type quality but in a peer to peer type quality. If you read any of my stuff you would know I massively misunderstood steem because I found it while in psychosis and thought it was a social media where you gained online points for being s good friend or something along those lines. I was so embarrassed when I come too and realized that it is so very much more than what I had origanally thought. That said, I still use it as a peer to peer site to gain new knowledge, opinions, viewpoints, learn of other cultures, learn cryptocyrrency, learn how hard coders and programmers work, learn how hard artists and writers work, etc. I have found it to be refreshing in that it isn't mainstream or construed in a way that is clearly bias to a target audience. The platform is open to everyone and goes in direction with the amount of votes. As more people join it will become less filled with bots but more fillled with mainstream. The comment section keeps the power on the actual users. People who comment by saying one or two words will not get as many upvotes from the whales as people who comment in quality replies. We take about the quality of work a lot on steem. This high number 38 will require people to put in a higher quality of work on their comments, invoking such aspects as constructive critismism, generation of new ideas, adding additional knowledge, promoting the original post and poster ability to become better. I think that would be the general idea behind adding slur to the comments. To gain a community response that generates a positive outcome by better the original post. That is just my opinion though and I am pretty new to steem so it hold no value. Basically, just trying to find the silver lining for you!!!
" I am pretty new to steem so it hold no value"
Not true, I think being new, we hold a lot of value. If the changes they make chase us away then they have made a mistake.
You are active and engaging so you are adding value all the time ;)
Okay I will agree with that. I just feel as though the value I have or create is minuscule compared to others. But yes, we all add to the platform so every person or steemian does count. Thank you for pointing that out :)
Thank you for your honest answer @kristy1
I really hope that it will provoke an honest discussion in comments sections and so on. However, I am afraid that at first, it will be very uncontrolled and some people will simply jump into the comments section with their spamming and bots to upvote. Other from that, you are already commenting on stuff you like. So does people on all the other social media platforms. it kind of makes me feel that people will be receiving more spam than honest replies. For an honest reply you don't need to get paid... You just want to write it.
I would be up to see how comments pool works with like 7% instead of 38%. Also, as ats-david pointed out, those 38 percents will be taken away from bloggers and curators. That will only make it less attractive to hold any SP, which is already a problem.
Anyway, I thank you for your insights and I wish to come to you and say that you were right one day after the fork. :) Cheers!
I hope so. And about the comments I make. I don't expect to be paid for them. I just like conversation. I am young and on disability so miss that intellectual/adult conversation working or school provides. I find it here in steem and that provides me with more than money in value- sanity! Literally, sanity as in you guys help me grasp reality and call me out when I be getting real strange like I tend to do! Lol
That is the main point. And if we had more people like you and me, and everyone else here, there would be no problems with engagement! Keep on steeming, you are a very interesting person and you are not strange at all :)
Thank you. I find you interesting too. Read through your blog the other day. A lot of the views that make me so different in the southern states I come from are views others embrace so that has been refreshing. My views sound very strange here because it's big oil who reigns king. That's most people and their livelihood where I am from so I just try to respect that they are set in their ways and I can choose to try to show them other parts of life and living. I live ten minutes from the pipeline crossroads of the world. The keyston pipeline they are taking about is highly anticipated here to revamp the down turned economic situation. I hope it does help because these people are my friends neighbors family. They are a hard working bunch just the skills they learned are oil related.
Oh yes. Our living place has a huge effect on how we think. I am sure that people in your are good people. I am very sad that there is a lot of struggling going on, but I guess things can change pretty fast!
Enjoyed your content "Upvoted & Resteemed" in the 23rd Hour! ;) Sorry, I have no cats, but here's a Funny Meme of my Dog:
That out of the way, I agree on the 7 day thing & why is there no talk about Referral Codes? 97% or more of the SP I now hold is 'self invested', believing in the platform. Honestly I've made more $$$ with the Referral Code from Coinbase to my friends - than trying to interest them in Steemit on FB. Now the potential "Rob-in-the-hood" of what minor earnings from posting get taken out to the tune of 38%. Makes one wonder (at times) Why Try?
If anything I've learned here it's about the meaning of "currency" and how to better use it in a digital format. I figured out how Poloniex works. I don't see the 'short term' benefit to this next Hardfork - I see the chef quote in this "When you See the Fork in the Road... Take It!".
haha, that is a lovely dog indeed!
As for referral codes, I tend to agree. It would definitely bring some more people on board. It might look a little scammy tho, and that is not good for Steemit at this very moment.
I am not seeing any short-term value in this fork yet as well. I just hope that devs are seeing a bigger picture and that it is a beautiful picture. Forking for the sake of forking would be unprofessional, to say the least.
And thanks for you support and resteem!
Scammy did not keep my friends from earning $10 BTC @ $634 in November 2016, and I am sure not 'sad' about the earnings I received from them back then. 7 out 10 now have a Shift Card. (Though we are far from that here on this platform) I do know that it was effective marketing, far more than the promise these days of "Getting Paid to Post".
I am not negative about Steemit in the long-term. I hold much more on Poloniex now. I am even conflicted - Power Up, Power Down? I think for now - Power Down, because it is trade-able. Why Vest & Rest when there is no positive outcome to this next fork? I will make far less money 'lending it' to the governance of Steemit then I will trading it. It's like the question of should I just give an 11 month + loan to the IRS, only to get it back (UN-invested) for the sake of belief that the United States is "My Flag waving Country"? Nope!
Thank you for the positive comment on "Digger". (My Dog) I will still continue to post here on Steemit. I will wonder if "Whales" will get off their lazy bums and stop eating the "New Fish". IMHO
You should probably vote with your "Feet". If I read this article, in context Steemit is going to shoot it's active users in the foot. Never a goodthing for something so new on the internet.
True, if you get money all the scammy talks do not sound that bad anymore. However, you know that majority of people are not that open trying new things...
I am also thinking about powering down and having my Steem in a liquid form. My SP cannot influence anything, so I might rather go on and trade around it, so I could make some extra cash.
This fork might look really negative at the moment, but we will see. I also believe in Steemit future or I would not be here anymore. However, I see so many things to be improved, of which, marketing is the most important.