I Don't Want to be a Sellout and a Few Other Things I Find Somewhat Humorous About This Place

in steemit •  10 days ago

Nearly two years of feeling like the underdog is starting to take it's toll on my mind.
No whiny complaints about the place.  A few grievances, sure.

And some things simply don't make sense to me.

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Of Course

I don't expect anyone to listen to me either.  That's life, and I'm fine with it.

There's no need for me to complain about something like: The Trending Page.

I'd much rather offer ideas.  Improvements that benefit all.

I know a lot of people do complain about it, and yes, I can see a few problems there as well but the thing is, I wrote about the issues many see today, long ago, before they happened, because I didn't want to see these problems before they started.

So why should I complain about being right!?

Wink-wink.  Just messing around.

Back in early February of this year, I wrote a facetious post comparing bidbots to crack cocaine and the drug's tendency to destroy neighborhoods.  The publication was well received and opened quite a few eyes.

These days, not always, but some days, that front page looks to be a tad bit run down and doesn't really reflect what the majority of the community stands for.  You have to drive pretty damn far through the shit part of town to find the nice neighborhoods, where most of us who take pride in this place, reside.

We all know how some folks would sooner drive around and miss out on the entire city simply because the entry point is unappealing.  A few more might even assume the entire community is much of the same and take the freeway out of here, never to be seen again.  It's bad for business if a city can't attract tourism or random travelers just passing though and this vibrant community of ours is one and the same.

I broke character (I typically blog in character and write entertainment, for fun) to write another post after the crack cocaine incident.  In that post I became frustrated and pointed out how we all dodged a bullet because Steemit's trending page was featured on Joe Rogan's podcast as they spoke briefly about the potential here.  Even Joe Rogan said, "Wow," as his eyes lit up.  That's good for business.

One or two days before that podcast, our trending page was complete chaos.  Flag wars and trolling.  1.5 million people have since watched that podcast and that's only counting the views on Youtube.  So yeah, we dodged a bullet.  The first few posts they showed on the video version of the podcast were respectable, that day.  Phew!

After that close call would have been a good time to start cleaning up the neighborhood.

Nothing Changed

I didn't expect anyone to pay attention to what I said anyway.

Then a few weeks later, Ned is being interviewed live on Bloomberg and the reporter mentioned the "low quality content and people simply attempting to chase the money."

I'm sure some of you remember that.

We had plenty of time in between the free publicity offered by Joe Rogan and that interview on Bloomberg to make some changes.  A few minor tweaks would have went a long way and those heartbreaking questions during that interview would not have existed.

I say heartbreaking because I've been here for nearly two years; and there's a reporter on television painting us all with a broad brush; calling our stuff, including mine, junk.

Ned didn't stand up for the hidden gems either but I understand why.  Those interviews don't allow people enough time to say everything that needs to be said in order to cover all the bases.  They cornered him, but he did acknowledge the fact there are a few issues that require attention; so that was good enough.  Growing painsI get it.  Always have.

Way Back in Early January

Before the crack cocaine and bad publicity.

I wrote a post describing exactly what's about to happen to the trending page, and I was right, because we see it getting out of hand today.

I explained the difference between paid programming and actual content.  I tried to point out why it's wrong to put unmarked advertisements on the trending page and favor that sort of content over actual content that helps lure eyes to this community.

Since the bidbots are there to use for promotional purposes, anytime a member here uses one (or many) of these bots, their post gets converted into a form of advertising similar to paid programming.  When it comes to ratings, paid programming gets the lowest.  It has always been that way in the entertainment industry.

The content consumer doesn't watch twelve minutes of commercials and then take a break to watch two minutes of the show they like, then go back to another twelve minutes of commercials.  It's bad for business if we continue to do things backwards like that here on Steemit.

Have a look at Youtube some day.  That 'skip advertisement' button is there because people want actual content, not advertisements.  Nobody wants to wait around for two minutes just to be able to watch the one minute video they were clickbaited into viewing.  Advertisers became aware of this and now many of them cram their message into a five second spot so by the time one wants to skip the ad, it's already over.

Look how successful Youtube is and now realize even the advertisers are putting the content producers and consumers first in order to help keep the eyes and ears everyone needs in order to succeed in this industry, so let's follow their lead.

The Solution

Simply remove the posts from trending status the moment the use of a bidbot or other promotional tool is detected.

I mentioned that, way back when.

Slide those posts over to the promoted tab (or create a new tab), and allow the real content, produced by those who put their hearts and soul into this platform, rise to the top.

When we're busy publishing, before we hit the post button, we should be able to select from a list of these promoted posts and include one or two to sit as banners within or under our publications.  If a member visits our blog, sees one of these ads, then clicks; that click should function just like the vote button, rewarding the author of the post.  That's one of the easiest ways a blogger here could generate ad revenue.

The ads could jockey for position on this list by spending more and more money like they do now to hijack the trending page.  That, my friends, is good for business.  Everyone wins.

Bloggers curate advertisements to include with their posts, and when that advertisement gets it's reward, a share of the final revenue should go to all bloggers who chose to include that ad on their post.

I'm certain advertisers would want to find ways to sweeten the pot to ensure their ads are the ones being selected by content producers by offering incentives in the form of quality ads and higher rewards.  They'd know they're now able to tap into a larger market and get more eyes on the prize instead of depending on a measly 20-30 top trending slots.  I know I'd be out looking for the best deals.

People need to buy STEEM in order to create these ads, which is good for everyone; and now we have another alternative method of distribution as well.

Right Now

Only a handful of members jockey for position on the trending page.

There are thousands more who would really appreciate at least a chance to make it to the front page.  There are thousands of members here who would be delighted if that only happened once in their lifetime.  Bring that feeling of winning the lottery back into play here, and I promise more people will want a ticket.  Offering a chance to win would help with what some call, retention.

Three people consistently competing with themselves for the front page slots is bad for business.  One gentleman purchases $400 worth of rewards to sit beside his post to look pretty, then he has to spend that much again just so his next post in a few hours is right up there with it.  He could have spent $200 the first time and still be up there, then $200 again.  They set the ridiculous costs for themselves.  This behavior is laughable, in my humble opinion.  Those advertisements are not something I'd want anywhere near my blog either.

There are plenty of alternatives out there we've yet to try.  I've given some solid options here today, and I do hope others can see the benefits of what my brain has to offer.  Ned, go ahead and use these ideas if you like them.  I'll go back to my corner now.

Have a nice day.

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All images seen here were produced digitally, by me.
"I care about the place.  It doesn't have to be perfect, but it could be better."

© 2018 @NoNamesLeftToUse

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I don't check the trending page anymore. At one time it was a war zone with flag wars and to me it became a place to avoid out of fear I'd become a target for no good reason. I've actually moved to finding new people to support through resteems in my feed of people I trust who are seeking to promote good quality content. Even if those who run the site aren't changing things at least individual users are out there trying to support the little guys and trying to give them a boost. The biggest shame of the design of trending, hot, new, etc is that people who deserve to be seen aren't and that for people who are new with no friends, they may struggle to find friends and get their work seen.

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So, let's say, at the bottom of post published by a blogger you trust, you saw something like this:
Screenshot (398).png

Click that awesome banner, that serves as a vote for the post hosting the banner, and you move on to the next post that you might want to vote for, and there you're met with another interesting post you might be interested in, so you just follow the path, supporting everyone along the way.

We can already do this for free, without needing bidbots for added exposure. If someone slipped me a few bucks to purchase one my slots for a week, I'd do it that way, but if I lose potential votes due to distractions that lead away from my work, it's not a good idea. That's why I say the slot should come with the UI and serve as a vote once clicked. Easy ad revenue.

We can do it on our own but if promoters offer incentives, we can choose from their list of promoted posts. I certainly wouldn't want to place junk at the bottom of my post. I'd look for something my followers might be interested in, and that could be anything. Doesn't have to be a coca cola commercial. It might just be an interesting paid programming style post we sometimes but rarely see on trending.

Now, since the trending tab offers the real content creators the potential for added exposure, we could have the same interesting add pulled from the MARKET on several of the top trending posts, giving the one who promoted the post far more potential views than they had with one post hijacking the trending page that most folks don't look at anymore.

Simple stuff, right?

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My problem with this is if the recommended post, even though quality, doesn't interest you, this system would have you going down to the bottom of the article/post to see the next recommended post which also may not interest someone, whereas going down trending/new you can just hit on the stuff you want to read without all that scrolling.

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Most folks read top to bottom. Nobody is forcing anyone to click anything, it's just there. The rest of the world still exists outside of the post, as is.

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That is most reassuring.

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I know that. lol. What you were saying would just be another option available. One other thing to consider is the fact that a lot of the same topics will start streaming at the same time. So say A, B and C all write articles on say retention, and A recommends B and B recommends C, so you start to read B's then decide you don't want to read anymore retention similar stuff, so you scroll all the way down to see what B recommended only to find out that C also wrote on the same topic. That's a lot of scrolling, clicking and reading for nothing.

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Arts, entertainment, lifestyle, edutainment, educational, informational, news, etc. Text, video, audio. Broaden your horizons, think bigger. Then you'll see how it works.

The typical forum style posts about Steemit (including mine above) aren't much of a draw for outside eyes or much fun for majority of those on the inside looking to pass some time, be entertained or informed; whatever they like.

Bloggers would have to curate ads or promotional posts and find something people might be interested in, because a click on that ad means a vote for them as well as potential rewards for hosting the ad or promotion. The better the promotion does, the more one could earn, so bloggers would have to be wise about their selection, not send people on an annoying loop from hell.

People have to scroll and click everywhere on the internet though. That's just how these devices work.

If you're promoting a blog that offers something unique, every post is different, and if someone doesn't like it, they can simply go to their feed like usual and find something else. Nobody is under any obligation to click a post or scroll, but if they want to, they can.

We can trust our social circles to offer something of value. I'll give shout outs to people from time to time, and some of my followers check out their work. I haven't had any complaints so far. If you hit the new button up there, then most likely, yeah, you'll eventually get tired of scrolling, clicking and reading for nothing, if that's what you chose to do that day.

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That's brilliant. It's kind of like the "Recommended" tab on YouTube except that you actually benefit from helping others.

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I'm right there with you. When I see long-time users complaining about the trending page, it throws me off a little. "What, you still look at that thing?"

For me, the front page of Steemit is my feed page. New people to follow is found by resteems from people I'm already following (don't neglect that resteem button when you see great content from people you want to support, folks!), or, occasionally, on tag pages. Heck, I still don't understand just what the difference between "Trending," "Hot," and "Promoted" are in terms of how the content appears on the respective pages…

Nonetheless, I can respect the opinion that, if we're going to have these "best of" pages, the content on them should be legitimately good.

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If I'm working for a magazine, I don't want to work for the one with the shittiest cover.

Hopefully this post of mine doesn't come off sounding like complaining, because that wasn't the intention here at all.

Simply remove the posts from trending status the moment the use of a bidbot or other promotional tool is detected.

This might be a fine idea, but as I think I've said before, it's tough to solve this in a decentralised manner. Steemit.com could certainly do this in a centralised way, but that would cause problems:

  1. Certain people (including myself, sadly) would see this as an abuse of their status as the main gateway.
  2. Other sites such as Busy.org which operate on the same blockchain would not reflect the changes.
  3. Bots would hop to new accounts as soon as they were discovered and added to the list, making it an endless cat-and-mouse game to catch and "blacklist" the vote sellers.

If we amended the witnesses' duties to include maintaining a list of known paid vote accounts, that would take care of 1 and 2, but issue 3 would remain open.

Personally I think it would be far more productive to integrate bidbot-like functionality into the consensus layer; to use the blockchain to compete directly with the bidbots. We could make it so that posts that had a certain amount of SBD burned to promote them appeared as if they'd been upvoted for 10 times that much. This wouldn't really "fix trending" in the way you're hoping, though it would go pretty far to stop bidbot abuse as well as the centralisation of stake:

  1. People who still used bidbots would lose the "promotion" argument and would be forced to admit they were only doing it for the money. This would open all bidbot users to (potentially automated) flagging, since legitimate promotion would be using the onchain mechanism instead.
  2. This would cause the bidbot business to dry up, which would fix the stake centralisation problem as well as hopefully causing whales to start curating again.

There is one option I have not seen discussed. I am honestly pretty drawn to it these days. That idea is... forget about fixing Trending. End it.

Switch to a pure subscription model for the main interface. Don't even try to rank posts by popularity or payout anymore. Just get rid of the Trending page, and have people follow people they find interesting.

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This isn't about abolishing or taking anything away from anyone. In theory, everyone ends up earning more.

A trending page full of solid content encourages consumers to stick around and see what else they can do.

I'll go to Youtube and watch one of videos receiving high ratings, then click on something that catches my eye. These promoted posts could catch a ride within our potential trending posts instead of being the trending post. They get their visibility that way. And there's far more money to be made in honest advertising. More people would see the ad if it was inside a solid post. Not many people look at trending now, they look at the posts published by the people they follow, so that's where the promotions should be. Look at the audience. Those people spend money to promote in front of people who can only say things like, "Nice post!" They're not interested in buying a product or, anything, really. They're just there on the trending page now saying mindless drivel. An advertisers nightmare.

If someone wants to spend $500 to show off a couple of lame ass pictures, they can still do it, they can still be on the trending page, and many other places, if someone wants them to be there. The thing is, most won't, and those providing the promotional services won't have to worry about people attempting to scam, so that nonsense gets cleaned up and even those selling the votes won't look as bad because they'll be offering quality ads, or go out of business.

The guy can publish his shitty pictures, add an interesting banner, people might click, and he can earn for those clicks instead of getting nothing for a shit post, and then people can just flag his $2 spam instead of his $400 spam.

Right now this model is driving nearly everyone out of business. People aren't buying STEEM for this system. They buy some, they lose, they leave; and get replaced by the next idiot.

There won't be many people left to buy STEEM and promote their posts like they do now, and lose money. How many suckers are there in this world? We need real promotions, and those people need content producers. That turns into a proven money making machine.

That dude that tried to sell his white powder that he called gold failed because he pretended to be a trending blogger instead of smiling face on a banner ad where he belongs. He would have done far better as a banner, and we'd all earn because people like him have to buy STEEM in order to do their thing, plus he'd have to pay more for a higher slot. Then they all start competing while the content producers get to have fun and do their thing the natural way, plus earn. Yeah, I'm rambling. I'm tired, it's late, I'm going to bed.

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As a software developer myself, I had the same ideas about potential problems that @lemony-cricket highlighted. I don't think he/she was discounting your banners idea so much as the idea that trying to detect whether accounts are organic or not is much easier said than done. (One case that comes to my mind that he/she didn't cover is the case where a person that legitimately blogs and participates also sells bids through the same account; e.g., the account is not solely used for bid-bot purposes. Do you just blacklist all activity from that account?)

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Accounts don't need to be blacklisted. They can still function like they normally do and the posts still exist, they're simply sorted into a different pile. Account names would work like tags. I used the steemit tag, so if I click that tag, I get a trending page of only posts that used the steemit tag. That doesn't mean all of the other posts vanished or were blacklisted.

What I'm suggesting offers an opportunity for those promoting posts to present their work in front of more people. That means more money to those who sell promotional services, and if they wanted some of that money, registering their bot to work in a MARKET tab rather than the Trending tab would be the way to go.

There's far more money to be made in honest advertising than there is with this misleading style they offer now. You said it yourself, you don't look at trending. I pointed out in the post, it's normal for paid programming style posts to receive low ratings. That's just how it is, so there's more money to be made if they organize and put things where they belong, rather than attempting to cram it down a person's throat.

If folks realize the potential of doing things right, the bots don't have to be detected, it could be voluntary.

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Give trending and the front page the middle finger and make your own. Join and be active in a community.

Take the best they have from that week that are still open and make a curation post. Share it with them and let the community support each other for the outstanding work those members did for the week.

Most things we can’t change. Some things you can to make it better for those around you.

These are great ideas. I like the advertising option and the the idea of moving bidbotted content to a separate tab. I'm not too sure about the Promoted tab, though. I know that I personally never browse through those posts. Why would I want to read posts which have paid their way past the somewhat intelligent human filter? Or maybe that's the point;) One idea I had was to also have a lot of filtering options like on YouTube. Something like "Most upvoted by number", "Most upvoted by value", "Most views", "Most comments", "Most views by visitors who spent enough time on the post to actually be able to read it" (might not be possible)...

Or maybe we could just make an antibidbot to which people can delegate Steem which will be used to flag bidbotted posts?

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I've been fine tuning as I go and now think the ideal place would be a MARKET tab, something new. Even an entirely new DAPP that caters specifically to those who want to promote using bidbots to jockey for position, then the feed from that DAPP is connected to the publishing tools here or DTUBE, etc, and that's where this list I mentioned comes into a play. One could browse before publishing from the market feed, then place simple banners that lead to the promotions.

As for the flags, well, the thing is, if someone is willing to spend $500-1000 or more to have their promotion placed inside blog posts, they better make it something good, or they will be suffering a heavy loss because nobody will select it, and they will not get their views. It's no problem if people want to spend money and promote shit, if it's not sitting on the trending page taking up space and pissing people off, right? It's their loss and only their loss. They bought STEEM, so we win, and the promoters made money, so they win. Those promoting would have to step up their game, or fail.

What I'm suggesting here has the potential to make a lot of money, and solve a lot of problems all in one. It's more about taking what we have and making everything work together, rather than against each other.

A really interesting post @nonameslefttouse and it mirrors a lot of my views on what is holding steemit back and driving quality content creators away.

I've been on here just shy of a year now, I'm guessing this is a second account of yours based on what you said in the article about being on here for 2 years.

My experience here has been somewhat of a mixed bag for sure. I come from a creative writing background, having done my degree at university in that subject and while I don't consider myself to be the best writer in the world 😉, I am justifiably proud of work I have had published outside of steemit as well as the work I put up here. A big problem I see with bidbots, is that various new users who have a high level of writing/blogging/vlogging skill often don't stick around long enough to get that first encouraging curie vote. I'm a curie curator and I see this all the time. Someone I'm watching, waiting to submit something of theirs when the time is right, disappears never to return. I nearly did the same myself at the beginning when I saw how stacked the system was to facilitate circle-jerking for the high SP users. Luckily I got that first curie vote on my 7th post just as I was thinking of jacking it all in and going back to producing only on WordPress. So what is my point? Bidbots need to be positioned out of the market. The only way this will happen is if they're somehow made to be less useful to the decent content creators. I think you have got it absolutely spot on when you posit a solution:

The Solution

Simply remove the posts from trending status the moment the use of a bidbot or other promotional tool is detected.

I mentioned that, way back when.

Slide those posts over to the promoted tab (or create a new tab), and allow the real content, produced by those who put their hearts and soul into this platform, rise to the top.

Ned and the dev team are so fixated on 'steemit businesses' - 'lets get a a hundred thousand entrepreneurs on steemit' yada yada yada, that I can only assume they fail to recognize that not all business is good business. Your analogy of bidbots being basically advertising is a good one, I have friends who are amazing content creators using bidbots in the hopes of being seen or just for a moral boost when their posts don't do too well. This is tragic as these are people whose content speaks for itself and they're having to pay for a chance at the higher SP users to even see it. Obvs, discord communities are redressing the balance somewhat. I haven't used bidbots in 6 months now and I stick by my decision as it was a fake sense of achievement and often it was returning a negative ROI. This has driven me to do the needful things to start to thrive on steemit, such as getting involved with projects like as the charity I'm now involved with or the discord communities I curate in.

To wrap up this rant, all in all, I guess it just depresses me a little that steemit isn't what I think it should be! A blogging platform that rewards people based on the quality of their content.

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I'm guessing this is a second account of yours...

I have one account: this one.

they fail to recognize that not all business is good business

What is a business without happy clientele? Destined for failure.

The content producers needs aren't being met using bots. All that does is put a sign in the window that says, "$50!" People still need to come in and look around before the content producer can make money, if you think about the blog as a business.

I can't use the bots because I'm not in the business of misleading my patrons. The struggles I face now include being an artist, so I need eyes first in order to see success. Robots can't see. What these bots do is put posters and advertisements on my windows, covering up the art or whatever I have set up behind those windows. The moment a few people buy votes and use the art tag, my work gets buried. I didn't come here to work for a middleman. Those bot owners didn't hire me, and if I had a job somewhere, I certainly wouldn't be paying just to have a chance to work there.

I worked pretty damn hard to build this blog up to where it stands today. You talk about curie and all that. My first 18 posts earned 10 cents, but I understood I needed to work and climb the ladder. That's what I signed up for. Now people just butt in line, push me aside, and they don't even earn, so the damage is done, they don't get anywhere, they quit, after kicking us creative types who take pride in our work to the curb while they were here. It's a tough pill to swallow. I've wanted to quit many times since I came back in December, but I calm myself and just keep on going. I still have fun, though some days can be quite depressing when it feels like I'm only going backwards now.

Also, I follow over 500 people. Many of them quit. In some cases, my vote was was the largest vote they'd ever see. So many folks with the SP get paid to look away now because of automation and delegation. Kevinwong has been writing about a few changes as well, offering more incentives to curate, and for the most part I agree with his proposals.

I don't always agree with rewarding "quality of content." I tend to lean more to the quality of the blogger. I rarely vote for an amazing post, then never visit that blog again. I'll usually support people, even on their bad days, because I'm a fan of their work. Much like how I enjoy motovlogs on youtube. I only subscribe to the interesting people who produce motovlogs though. I think a motovlog is quality content, but it's the person who gets my support. They have to be entertaining somehow. Many are dull and ramble on about things I don't care about. So technically, I can't say I like motovlogs, just interesting people. That's how this business works. That's why I tell artists to add their personality to their art posts. There are billions of images to view on the internet, but each artist brings something different to the table.

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Sorry about that comment about a second account, I miss-read the 'joined' section on your homepage as 2017 when it is in fact 2016. I have tired eyes today.

I guess the reason why I was talking about curie in relation to the subject of bidbots is that for the vast majority of people who arrive on steemit now with a decent level of content creation skill, the only vote of any quantity they will see in the first 6 months at least will be from curie or OCD. I feel that bidbots are massively to blame for this, along with autovoting mechanisms, as if these mechanisms didn't exist everyone would have to go out and manually curate to earn from curation and that would mean everyone genuinely finding new content creators who they like, share common interests with etc.

The content producers needs aren't being met using bots. All that does is put a sign in the window that says, "$50!" People still need to come in and look around before the content producer can make money, if you think about the blog as a business.

Couldn't agree more with what you're saying here. It is a false economy for sure and the frustration you talk about is something I completely understand as well. I have hope for the future that these things may be tackled with changes to steemit client at a base level. I don't have a massive understanding but have read a little about hivemind and SMT's which gives me some hope that things may improve.

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I wrote and explained in the crack cocaine post how placing $50 beside a post that's actually worth $0, as in it's not a reward, makes $50 worth nothing. An earned $50 holds true value. These folks are pushing the value down with this behavior, yet want to earn money. It doesn't make sense but unfortunately, most don't get it or they're forced to defend it to save face and social status.

As for those SMT's and whatnot: I'll believe it when I see it. My main concern is how it'll attract the scammy types who boost a post to trending advertising false money making promises and due to the misleading nature of these bots function, naive new members will assume the post is there simply because it's popular, then invest in a shit coin, make a scammer wealthy, while they lose all of their money. That'll only make the place look worse. I know it'll happen, which is why I insist marking these promoted posts as the advertisements they are is important. For now they are ads disguised as popular information, and that's terrible for business.

On the bright side, if those bot owners apply their stamp of approval on a scam, they can be held liable for promoting the scam. That makes them just as responsible for the scam as the creator of the scam. Maybe that's the wake up call they'll need in order to get organized and start promoting honestly? I don't know. I hope not.

I had a thought the other day, I'm not sure if it's possible, but what if there was an inverse to curie, like @theanti-curie which would be a downvote anti-curation trail.

I think it could be reserved for the worst offenders like 90% of the time (like the post that guy made telling people he was going to make a post)but every now and then just hit something that is trending and probably shouldn't be.

It wouldn't "Solve" any problems but could serve as a significant deterrent to people promoting up garbage to trending. It's unfortunate, but I think the only thing that motivates humans more than greed is fear, and just having the looming fear that they could be targeted by @theanti-curie could make a big difference I think. Just spit balling :)

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I'm one of the few who would actually downvote some of this junk we see. When it's really bad, I noticed others would join in on their own. On a few occasions we're treated like lesser humans, thugs. I have to tell you, it's annoying.

I won't be flagging posts any more, because it's not working. I can take about $2 away from a $600 post. That doesn't make people afraid. If one gets scared and learns how to blog like a normal person, another one of these trending page hijackers shows up to replace them.

What I'm trying to say is rather than those folks working against us, they could be working for us. I remember that post where the guy paid hundreds just to tell everyone he was about to write another post. He's such a genius right, so he could advertise the fact he's about write another post, and people could include that important message as an ad in their own posts. If nobody clicks, the genius should probably try a new approach. The way it's all set up now, they can keep throwing shit at the wall hoping something sticks. They have no incentive to improve and many of them are so delusional, they think they're successful, so not much will change. They're in the business of misleading people, false advertising. Renting a lambo for the weekend and telling people they own it. That's how they live, so I'd sooner find ways to embrace these kind of people so everyone can make money off of them and their advertisements.

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I just had a peek at the trending page. If that was my list of ads to choose from to include in my post, I'd probably select the young lady who's taking the sellout approach with her music. She's about to lose half of the $600 payout, and I'm not sure if she even knows that. She had to spend that much to get her video near the top, but in reality, I was once getting 200-300 views per post, I could run her music video advertisement for one week, giving her 1400-2100 potential views in a good week here on Steemit. Others could select her ad, which would offer her many thousands more potential views. If she takes a loss on this promotion, it doesn't matter because she got the exposure she paid for instead of a few curation reward chasers and new members who leave brainless comments. I don't think there's even one genuine response out of 70 under that post. Would you pay over $300 for that? These folks think they're taking a shortcut, but all it's doing is making them look bad.

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I can only assume that the makers here are focused on really big ticket items having to do with the entire STEEM ecosystem at the moment so I don't think there's going to be any big changes coming from the top down.

That's why I was thinking a curation trail could help. The problem you mentioned, your downvote only taking a few dollars from a $600 dollar post, as well as not as many people downvoting all in force, a curation trail would solve, and it wouldn't need each person to actively do something per post or for any feature changes(I don't think) Curie's 100% upvote with the entire trail of several hundred followers is well over $100 I think and that would wreck someone's post payout enough to make it a pretty big loss, but it would also wreck their reputation, which I think might serve as enough of a deterrent to clean it up a bit. Like I said, not a fix, just a deterrent.

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I don't expect any changes. Just more of the same.

I'm aware of what's ahead. Soon enough there won't be a trending page that functions in this manner. These promoters and those who promote won't have much of a market. Nobody will go to the advertisement community just to watch these folks boost their posts and be congratulated by people who think the authors are successful.

I'm to the point now where, rather than flagging, I'd prefer to find ways where we all work together, instead of against each other. The best content producer here, whoever that is, loses visibility the moment the worst blogger buys a vote. That's ridiculous.

The worst blogger can put their ad on the best bloggers post. The logic behind the banner link functioning as the vote button is simple: If one clicks the banner, the content producer who hosted the ad loses a vote because the member who clicked the banner has now traveled away from the content producers material, and chances are the one who clicked the banner won't travel back to drop a vote down. If we add ads that don't function in that manner, we create another headache where we're working against each other instead of with each other.

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I hear ya, I do like the idea of coming up with creative solutions that are positive instead of punitive.

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We don't even have to force these folks to take a hit by pushing them aside to the promoted tab. Create a new section for the promoted posts, call it the MARKET. People love shopping, right?

Steemit is much like a giant magazine, and people buy pages to promote their products in magazines. A real magazine turns that process into a money making machine. People don't buy the magazine for the ads, they buy it for the content. Steemit, as a magazine, is not benefiting from the current internal marketing strategies of placing the ADS on the COVER of the magazine. The content needs to POP, and the ads are just there, and those ads help pay everyone who's producing content, plus those marketing their products get eyes on whatever they want to sell or say. This is incredibly basic stuff, and somehow the concept is flying under the radar here. So there's no need to complain, we have the right ingredients, now we just have figure out the recipe.

There's a trending page....?
😂
(that's how long it is, since I've gone on it..)

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Exactly. It's prime real estate going to waste. Crack will do that. Doesn't have to be that way.

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Same with me.

"So why should I complain about being right!?"

I am a chronic pessimist so, for me, being right usually sucks lol.

This was a really thought out discussion of the issue and I like your suggested solution.

I made a similar point about trending being the face that we present to the world the other day. I see a lot of people say "well I just don't look at trending" and I fall into that category too. That is all well and good on a personal level but trending is still the first thing a prospective user sees. It doesn't necessarily drive established bloggers away. If one has been here a while, he or she has a feed and some tags that he or she checks and stuff but someone who thinks "I wonder what this steemit thing is all about" and drops by might decide to pass because he or she sees nothing of interest in the trending tab.

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I don't really know what to say anymore. Every comment here basically states the same thing. Nobody looks at the page. The damage has been done. I suppose it's irreversible now, and I should probably just shush. I'm an established blogger here though and it is disheartening to know in advance my work won't go very far now. I already know in advance, me buying a vote won't suddenly make all of those larger stakeholders take an interest in my work. And I also know, if I pay to reach the trending page, I'll receive a disingenuous response from people who don't care about my work, they just want my attention so they can get a vote and follow. Plus I've seen how art and humor gets treated there and I'd just end up with flags. Fuck it.

Every week I take a look at all the posts that the community I’m in shared with us on discord that fits our niche I highlighting the best that I could find from them for the week. I than try and get these people something if they have not already been rewarded little more than a pocket full of sand and dryer lint for the amazing work these members have created.

Bunch of the member in the community then resteem that post, upvote the members in that post.

I say fuck the front page and trending. I make my own every week. That is at least something I can do. I can't change minds in how trending should be. Instead I rather show by doing what I can.

In gaming at least the systems tend to reflect what the major of members end up doing in them. If a bunch of players start doing something and the developer notice they ask themselves "how can i make that easier for them to do that" if it lines up with what they are creating and is not attempting to cheat the system.

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I do what I can as well. I just don't like seeing downtown overrun by junkies. I guess I'm that one asshole who thinks they can make a difference. LOL! Like I said: "I'll go back to my corner now."

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Than help build a better downtown outside of junkie filled center of it. Not sure how active you are on discords. There this one place called Curation Collective. It’s not very old but they do what they can. Quite a few different channels where people are trying to curation different posts even ones for art. They tend to focus on the very under valued.

https://discord.gg/B8JFmJ4

I’m a regular asshole in the curation gaming channel. I piss people off a few times a week lol. We don’t have to sit in a corner. It’s just pointless screaming at a brick wall called trending and expecting it to move. Some of them rather powerful which is not wise of me to do so I think. But hell I have the gaming curation role for now at least lol.

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My voting power is exhausted. Before things slowed down I was dropping over 350 votes on 150 different accounts. I think this week I'm down to 250 on 100 accounts, but I also raised the percentage for a few folks. I'm doing as much as I can and I've always felt spending time on other platforms only takes away from the limited time I have here.

I have nothing to add, so I will simply upvote and resteem this. Hopefully the right people will read this and do something.

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I appreciate the help. This post is trending #1 in the #awesome department, so I got that going for me at least!

I never look at the trending page anymore. I just decided to look at it now, every post I looked at is using bid bots.

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Was there anything good? I checked a few minutes ago and saw a post with 4 screenshots of addiction information stolen from the internet. I couldn't even read the words on the images, too cloudy. I guess that's what the promoters and members here want. I give up LOL!

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No, unfortunately there was nothing good.

I gave up on trending/hot not long after getting here. Scrolling the wheel on my mouse was giving me carpal tunnel. I found a few people who were interesting and began hawking their comment sections and grew my list of whom I follow that way.

Not sure what the solution would be. I think Steemit.inc is focused solely on their SMT launch so they can go from being millionaires to billionaires. It seems they don't really have time for their SMT demo called Steemit. I rent most of my paltry SP, and as you mention, thinking my .05 downvote will do little but tickle those using the bots before they voted me down to invisible.

So, I focus on authors I enjoy from my feed and forget most days there is even a hot or trending tab to the site.

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Exactly. You're one of thousands of people who no longer look at those pages because of these mistakes being made in promotion. Even the promoters, those earning the most, are shooting themselves in the foot by offering a model without a future. I thought they'd be the ones attempting to make the changes like I've mentioned here today in order to solidify their futures. Majority of the members here with a brain know their model doesn't work, which is why only a handful of naive members take part in it. They should be pushing that content towards the actual eyes.

Nice information

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And a happy nice information to you, too!

To listen to the audio version of this article click on the play image.

Brought to you by @tts. If you find it useful please consider upvoting this reply.

This I awesome info..... Thank you for suggestions as per the solutions.

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Great informative post..

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Wonderfully informative comment.

Sometime you was Humorous then you think a lot about past and they make your life so weak and you scared to world. i'm right ??

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This is the strangest comment I've ever received. Thank you!

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Is it weird I read your reply and hope one day to be worthy of it from someone as well?

I'm crying. 6 months ago I considered the trending page a joke. Now it has become a plague.

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It is, what it is.

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The Trending plague

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Oh the page. I mean the trending page is still a plague of bots.