Deceptively Optimistic Self-Shilling Posts Hurt Steemit

in #steemit7 years ago (edited)

"I am so excited! I have been in the platform for X days and I have made X amount of money. Look at my stats. I am no.X on steemwhales with X amount of followers. You can do it too!"

Well, not exactly...



If you have been on Steemit for a while then you must have stumbled upon this daily dose of digital herpes. These posts might have seem great for people back in the early 2000's but they don't really work today. Sensible individuals with an I.Q ranging above room temperature don't buy it.

The author making this kind of posts purposefully milks a superficial enthusiasm for easy cash. Since both the newcomers and the whales will upvote on what seems a "positive" post, nobody really finds anything wrong about the act. The matter of fact though is that it will take the average user about a week to realize that Steemit is not a unicorn farting rainbow cash. Irreversible platform abandonment will follow. You can bet your ass these users will also share the experience with their friends. In the meantime, the pool rewards along with Steemit's fragile reputation gets lost in the black hole of shilling that we have created and actively promote as a community.

Exuberant advertising posts usually come from privileged users that never really had to do walk the bumpy road towards the top to begin with. Much like in any other industry in the real world, these are usually early adopters that managed to do the right connections at the right time. Everything else rolled out pretty much by itself. Best case scenario, these posts look similar to photoshopped products advertised by companies like McDonalds. They will superficially attract tons of people for easy revenue but not those who can see beyond the kool-aid.

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McDonalds doesn't mind this because all mouths chew much the same. Steemit though is not McDonalds. We don't sell mass produced cheap burgers. We have the monumental task to try and compete with other social websites that already have good content and credibility. One marketing tactic does not fit all. This senseless shilling mentality should not be so hastily pushed from those who control the reward pool because they actually end up hurting their own investment in what seems good promoting content.

Outrageous claims about making easy money is a guaranteed recipe for failure since they raise all the warning flags about a scam. The situation much resembles a car salesman trying to push an overhyped delivery car to a skeptical buyer. The seller gives you the car for free as long as you drive it in order to deliver his goods for a small percentage of the profits. All you have to do is just drive around. The skeptical buyer might entertain the idea at the beginning to get the car but after a week driving they will return it. Not only they will realize that the car does not deliver as promised but he will notice that a handful of other drivers seem to be taking advantage of his route, collecting more for themselves.


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Wouldn't it be better to let the customer decide what the car is all about? Isn't what the free-market — we so proud ourselves — stands for? Recycled cheap marketing tricks that we read in self-help books might have worked a decade ago but people are starting to wake up. They have worked so well that everybody is using the same tricks. They are as old and expired as door-to-door sales.

At the end of the day the people who will fall for this level of marketing will be the ones whom we don't really want to attract in a young platform to begin with — not at least before wide adaptation. A content creation platform that rewards good content needs actual good content creators first and then the rest of the crowd can follow. This is how the masses will actually acknowledge the rewards in the trending page. They quality bar will be higher, functioning as a quality meter for those who want to improve their game.

Half the comments we see on Steemit posts are either straight up sucking up to the author or batshit crazy. Worthy content creators that are "sharp" in identifying superficial content fillers will stay away once they witness this level of authorship in our platform. Meanwhile, gullible and naive believers that know the basics or kissing ass will flock for a quick buck and disappear even faster when the price drops. This is exactly the environment that they need to help them flourish. And guess what. We went through this phase once so far.

A respected author that wants to migrate from medium to Steemit will get immediately disappointed if they see self shilling posts earning thousands. The best advertising for Steemit is good content from every possible tag — not 70% content from the crypto world. Let's face it folks. We had a year to attract the crypto crowd. Those who were interested joined already and those who left ain't coming back unless they are going to make a cheap quick buck. Promoting more and more crypto-related posts will just make the platform look alien to good authors who are just getting their feet wet with the whole blockchain thing.

This is really a no brainer. A few people in here really have the power to change completely the flow of content but only a few are doing it properly. Part of the reason is the massive dead weight of crypto-related baggage that the platform has to carry from the past. Who would have thought. Some of the innovators and early adopters have become the new version of conservatives.

In competing place like Reddit, Quora and Medium good content shines through — by itself. The stakeholders of those companies don't push their own agenda so that the trending page will be filled with their own interests. These places have a real free-market economy were users give rise to the content that relates to themselves — not a whale plutocracy with vested interests.

An average user earning thousands every month on self-shilling content (when under normal circumstances would probably earn him the dick in his hand anywhere else on the internet) will make any respected author run away. No surprise that after a year of promoting and inviting top tier authors not a single one has sticked around. This excludes of-course other the anarcho-bullshiters who powered down and vanished once the price dropped. Talk about walking the talk huh?


2017 arrived with the Chinese market boom and we repeat the same exact mistakes, actually believing we are doing something "right" because new empty accounts and bullshit comments sky-rocket. A simple market crash bitch-slaps us back to reality quite fast whether or not the platform holds real value or whether we are pawns in the larger market scheme. Are we really that blind? Why continue this stubbornness and keeping the platform so inclusive to specific crowds? It makes one wonder. Are we purposely rewarding specific content to boycott ourselves from the outsiders in order to satisfy a small circle of insiders? Do some people actually hurt the community in order to keep the profit themselves?


Kind reminder that self-critiquing posts from Steemians that have been around since the very beginning demonstrate actual credibility to newcomers. It shows how the community is willing to improve by tackling its own mistakes. Self-shilling posts only sweep the dirt under the rug, hoping it will go away.











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I'm new here; I am a content creator, and I have many other similar friends I can invite here. I am not inviting anyone yet. Most of us know nothing about crypto, reddit, medium, bots, or any other thing like that. 95% of my friends would never make this huge effort and would hate me for asking them to try.

We blog, or write books, or take photos, or film videos to make a point, sell a product, or try to reach and help people. I have a few niches but those are the common traits of my connections. The huge learning curve is too big of a hurdle for anyone already doing ok in their work so I'm laying low at the moment as far as callouts to join steemit.

I came here for the alexa ranking. Now I'm not sure if it is fake. After a month I have a lot of misgivings about a lot of aspects of this site, though I am still here trying to make it work.

I kind of like some of the "WooHoo! I did this accomplishment" posts because they give me guidelines, goals, and information about what milestones to shoot for. This place is so confusing and I am grateful any insight I receive.

It interests me to read that you have gotten some heavy hitters here who then leave the platform. I can see why and each morning I wonder if I should not get back to any number of projects on hold for this effort. I came in with a little flood of ex-tsusers and most of them have gone silent although some are doing well or still learning like me.

I am still a minnow swimming and probably will continue for another month. So far I am only posting into challenges for the most part as a learning technique, and I have not posted or linked to much of my main content.

I'll be doing some of that in the next month as well as posting my steemit posts out to social media in cycles. In this first month, I have come to realize that my goal should be to get google search traffic and not worry too much about what happens with the 200K+ steemers (How many are active?)

I'm going to see if I can drive traffic to my work. I am ok with seo; and now I "sort of" know how to make steemit posts that look good. I have not had such an opportunity before with a great alexa ranking like this and no censorship, so I feel hopeful.

At least my steemit posts go out to social media with great visuals and clickable links. Many other platforms cannot even manage that and so tweeting a post is a waste of time.

I really appreciate your insight, and I learned a lot from reading your post. Thank you.

My advice is to keep writing good posts and try to contributed into solving these problems by getting together with like minded people. Steemit right now is a risky investment when it comes to someone's time. If you have been on facebook and instead you spend the same time here then it is fine. If not, I would advice you to tone it down until the platform solves some fundamental issues. Steemit is not a job substitute.

Thank you for that interesting advice and I will definitely keep it in mind as I am here. I do use fb for traffic a lot and have stopped about 80% of that work for now.

Which of the fundamental issues do you think are most critical for me to pay attention to or that need to be solved to make this a good place to be?

Focus on comments. They create a good following which will get you attention in your posts. If I was starting just now I would make a post twice a week and spend 2 hours everyday on commenting.

That makes me happy to hear. The majority of my time is on commenting and I will definitely continue. It's the only way I learn or connect with new people or the people I already know who are here.

The posts can be very eye opening even if they take a lot of effort to comprehend. My posts definitely sink like a stone - but you can find them on google which makes me happy. I got traffic to you tube as well. These results are what keeps me going here.

@fitinfun, I'm trying to do the same thing you are, but much more tersely.

lol - It's hard to beat me on verbose. I never talk in person though :)

I'm at the bottom of the thread!!! Woo hoo. It's cozy down here :)

Just 2 hours? And how many realy meaning coments can be done? I dont think more then 5-10 , as far you should read the post and think it over.

If you have been on facebook and instead you spend the same time here then it is fine.

That's exactly what I've been doing tbh, allocated probably 20% of my fb time to this place, nothing to lose...nd 100% agree that spending huge amounts of time is as risky an investment as buyint thousands of steem!

CHAIN GANG WE EVERYWHERE!

I feel very similarly to you - I am a professional writer and know a LOT of people in the writing community - especially horror and science fiction. A lot of them are professional editors, teachers, and freelance writers who would love to make some extra cash. But most of them are not that tech-savvy and trying to plunge into steemit without any prior knowledge of crypto would frankly, be a confusing mess of a nightmare.

I'm lucky in that I've done research on cryptocurrency in the past year and already knew how it worked. But things like wallets, block-chains, encryption, exchanges, and the differences between currencies takes time to figure out and isn't immediately obvious. I can't in good conscience recommend the platform to friends because of it.

I think that's why we get the glut of crypto-related posts and there seems to be a lack of quality, professional writers. For the amount of money you get, it's just too much of a hassle for most people to do the research.

I've done the "shilling" posts, but they don't really bother me unless that's all I see in a person's feed. I admit they provide little value to anyone who isn't already a fan of the author.

My Mother USB a professional writer am deathly I have been trying to get her on here, but I worry that her post s will fall flat and she'all be out. I told her to get on here for a little while, poke around, comment, see what she likes, before putting be a LOT of time into creating content that might not get many views...

OH MY GOODNESS! This is the BEST post I have seen on any platform period. All true and should be heeded, or else Steemit runs the risk of becoming a graveyard of ignored and abandoned quality posts and troves and troves of shit posts.

You say, "Steemit is not a unicorn farting rainbow cash". You can say that again! I am a witness to that but I will keep being consistent with posting and that of good quality, whether a post is a long, researched post or a meme. I always go for quality.

And as far as too many people only voting to kiss ass, it really is discouraging to authors, like myself, who work to create quality posts because it tells me that the massive upvotes will only come when my steem power is up enough to where my upvote is worth more to people leaving comments.

This site could so upset sites like Reddit if the true content creators were given a chance, whether they have 100 SP or 100,000 SP. Capitalism in this platform will not sustain the platform. Minnows need to have a chance to have some level of success, if they are truly deserving and put out good content. Think about it. If a whale puts out a post and that post is voted up by 1,000 minnows and say 1 dolphin, then how much would the post earn without the minnows?

I have some serious ideas for the next hardfork, for sure, but I doubt that I'll submit them because I just don't believe it would do any good.

I'm very discouraged.

But, yeah, thanks for posting this.

Comments like yours help to get the issues on the front line which is the first step. I have been making similar posts since the very beginning last year and some recommendations were indeed implemented at least for a short while.

There are really 10-15 whales that we need to convince to sit together and really see the simple reality about what is good for the platform in the long run.

Keep writing good content and try to use the guilds like @curie to get more visibility.

Thanks a lot for the information! I'm always on the lookout for what to do regarding this issue.

Keep writing good content. I like that. I've seen a few more like you that say to just consistently write good stuff. I especially like the part of about allocating more time for comments than posting. I can see the logic in that. Thanks.

Apparently, most problems will be solved when the minnows increase STEЕM POWER

Yeah, that about sums it up, I see.

You're spot on, as usual. It's tempting to post vapid, self-congratulatory bullshit on a platform like this, and even easier to get distracted by "successful" people doing it.
I try not to and I admire everyone who succeeds in providing real value instead of the digital equivalent of fast food.

It is easy to take the easy road but I think it's not worth it.

It's not. I admit I posted random shit when I first started on this platform, because I just struggled to figure out what to use it for, but I've since decided I'd rather NOT post than post something that I feel has no value.

I still need to figure out what kind of content I want to share(mainly which topics I'd like to write medium-length blog posts about), but until then I'm just not posting instead, and only writing comments and giving upvotes where I feel it contributes in a meaningful way. I don't want to be part of steemit's digital fast food problem.

this is probably wise if you don't have the right connections. Good comments create a good following and earn you some rewards as well.

I agree with you @somergermannerd ( that's a long alias). Anyway, I must admit I also started posting sh*t just to get some followers but then i realized it's going away from the real value of quality content sharing.

Most if not everyone posting crazy stuff just to get the attention of steemit community, to receive that .001 from minnows or if you get lucky some $ from whales.

Everyone is rewarded for simply being here that's great right?, but will also hurt the community in a long term. We don't want to be a community of spam comments. I received comment that doesn't have meaning to my post and I have no way to vote it down so quality comment is up there.

In our business website, we also rewards community members for their actions through points then convert to crypto currency but we also deduct points for spammy comments, bad behavior, etc. And I hope steemit community will have a way to implement this approach.

We all want to make this community succeed, but we need to have quality stories to tell and sanitize comments to keep a healthy community. What do you think?

Thank you @kyriacos for starting this discussion.

Follow me @Yehey

@yehey how about writing a bold warning at the end of every post saying in effect that spammers are discouraged here and every unrelated or spam comment here will be flagged ...and actually doing it? 🤔 🙄 😲


🎹 🥁 🎷 🎺 🎸 🎻 I’m trying to use a lot of emojis here to Celebrate the World Emoji Day this week. Are you? 🎊 🎉 🎉 🎉⛄️

The problem with that, as I see it, is the bots and abuse and spam are so out of control here one would effectively use up all their voting power to flag such content (and, in the process, open themselves up to retaliation flagging which is nearly difficult to impossible to defend against without thousands of others supporting you)....
Financial Oligarchy, the struggle is real!

Hmm, got your point. But wouldn't multiple flagging to a spamming bot or user by several users make it blacklisted / inactive? Isn't there any such rule on this platform?🙄 🤔


🎹 🥁 🎷 🎺 🎸 🎻 I’m trying to use a lot of emojis here to Celebrate the World Emoji Day this week. Are you? 🎊 🎉 🎉 🎉⛄️

Really seems to be more of an issue of the Value-of-One's-Network being greater than the Quality-of-the-Content.
This seemed to be an issue 11 months ago (New accounts soaring but Steemit use falling, multiple account spam?). Yet I haven't seen much pertaining to blacklisting, more based on what I see going on (the only thing I've seen dealing with @ blacklist has been a couple users complaining they were unfairly blacklisted, yet could still see their posts/comments).
Just doing the math (being as I was nearly 'nuked' myself by one user, I should have read the "White Papers" BEFORE calling him out....) it seems to me the value of one's account has more to do with it than anything else.
If a Red Fish gets hammered with flags and blacklisted it can ruin their account if they give up. If a Whale experiences the same level of flag attack, so long as it's value is high enough and Network strong enough, the suffering is significantly minimal compared to the same actions done upon a Red Fish. I would doubt the Whale in this scenario would even be blacklisted, doubtful since everything relates to the value of the account - the higher the value the more hits it would take to do any damage &the more powerful it's own flag becomes. Know what I mean?
Guess I should start researching the ins and outs of if an account can really be destroyed here or not, if it's more of a situation where an account finds themselves in a position they can not recover from and give up (or create a new one).

Read the post and about 70% of the comments, so if someone already mention this – sorry for reheating already warm water.

I am about 4 days old. :) I never used any social media (I do have a FB acc but more or less inactive). I did wrote a blog for about 3 years. I have a vague idea about cryptocurrency and about as much interest in it as my 4 year old niece in nuclear physics.

So I was thinking of blogging again and my friend suggested this. My first impression was not really the best. It seemed a bit messed up but I figured I feel this way only because I’m new. 1 day in and I already got the feel of it. It is messy. The overlook and the system of the page itself … it is not working. I am not talking $ here. I have a job. Upvotes are not an issue. Being seen is the issue. Yesterday I actually counted – just in one section there were like 22 posts in the last 30 min. How many of those posts were actually worth my time? Big fat zero. Mostly just a picture with no content. And I’m talking just a picture taken from google not an actual photography someone made. Even if there is some nice content out there it is like browsing through 9289392 spam messages. Then there is this reestiming stuff. I just hate how the page is made. If I go check out someone’s profile it states what is the owners post and what was reestemed. But sorry … couldn’t that be done some other way? Like in different paragraph? Or maybe colored with pink and with animated dancing pandas around it – so you see it right away or maybe I’m just to OCD for this.

I know blogging takes time. I know building views takes time. I know bonding and integrating into a tight circle takes time. I have no issue with time. But if posts are swamped under all this bull... at this moment I don’t know if this place is worth my time.

Just saying it is not easy for newcomers. After the introduction part you are left alone in the sea of spam with no bread to put it on.

Then there is this reestiming stuff. I just hate how the page is made. If I go check out someone’s profile it states what is the owners post and what was reestemed. But sorry … couldn’t that be done some other way? Like in different paragraph? Or maybe colored with pink and with animated dancing pandas around it

Hi, have you tried using busy.org? It is another site that connects to the same data (Steem Blockchain) but the interface is very different.

You can use your same user credentials to access the interface.

Oh ty, I will deffo check it out if its more "organised". :)

Although crypto is a common interest of almost everyone using Steemit, I agree that it's a shame that it's such a dominant subject here. I started a competition for writing about cycling last week with prizes for the top 3 entries... and so far only 2 people have entered. We really need more users who have other niche interests outside of crypto

Spot on, well written, awesome visualised - some cheerleader dancing missing a bit - agreeing though. resteemed!

Thanks so much for this, very on the nose and it doesn't feel like you left anything out. You've crystallized a lot of thoughts I've had myself, and I'm glad to see someone with such a high rep and visibility saying things like this. It gives me hope to see high profile users being critical and not just sitting on laurels.

This post is focusing on the financial issue ... but we must remember the great advantage of Steemit: Its decentralization.

This advantage is very important for people who are against, for example, the bureaucratic state. I know several people who are censored in "Fakebook" or Youtube, for example.

True freedom of expression outweighs monetary issues.

20 or so whales controlling the reward pool is not exactly decentralized. We have the decentralized architecture — not the implementation.

The blockchain is decentralized 😏

I get it. The idea behind this platform is to have a gathering of "talented artists" share their work in their chosen fields to a possible new audience for new exposure and the possibility for some type of financial reward at the end if the game was played properly.

Before joining this community a month ago, I spent my time on FB and IG. Why? Because it was easy and a distraction. In my ADD trace, I would bounce from one shiny post to the next. I am not an artist in any sense of the word. I am just a guy who LIKES things. I have interests that are all over the board. So when I was told about this place, I figured why not? Could be fun and I have nothing to lose.

When I arrived, I felt like an pretty 18 year old girl getting off the Greyhound bus in LA from Madison, Ga making my first journey to MAKE IT in the big city.

The music begins and it's time to dance. But what is the etiquette? What are the ground rules? What clique do I fall into? Who is popular and why? Where do I see myself in this new adventure since I am not a crpyto guy, an artist or blogger/vlogger with my own YouTube channel that showcases my special talents? Not a clue so off exploring I go.

The recurring sentiment I hear is that, as a minnow, give quality content and comments. Be patient and eventually everything will fall into place. I am good with that. This isn't my "job" or "source of income".

I stumbled on some, what I would consider great souls and having an opportunity to engage in sometimes deep, but always meaningful dialogue. It was and still is very refreshing. I have found new and interesting topics, subjects and personalities here that have been an absolute joy. For the most part, everyone I have interacted with has pleasant and helpful.

And then there is the dark underbelly of the city. When you know trouble awaits you at every corner and the pimps and drug dealers are there to help you, it will only cost you your soul. Do this and you will have meteoric success instantaneously.

So when I read posts like yours, it saddens me, because I am hearing a lot of the same rumblings from others who have been on this platform for a while. I can't help to think that the voices of reason will not exist because everyone of substance is gone. There is a reason for the cliche of the struggling starving artist.

I wish it could be rainbow colored, glitter filled butterfly fields for everyone. Unfortunately, it can't and won't. Life isn't like that and the reality is that there are going to be some serious growing pains. But with the support of others, we can heal these wounds and laugh about the scars later. Maybe we can help with a pre-indoctrination to Steemit. I don't have the answers, but as a collective, I know there are a ton of smart talented people around, just look to your left or right. I am enthusiastically optimistic about the future. That's my pennies worth and an upvote lmfaosrag Just don't stop dancing before the music stops...

@thecryptofiend has created an awesome help page for getting your feet wet on the platform. As far as the culture goes. Well, it is a jungle and you really need to be-friend some lions if you are to make it.

Thank you for the suggestions. I will make sure that I go over and explore his revelations. And yes, this culture is a jungle, as is any arena that involves monetary gains based on performance. It is also an example that it takes a entire village to raise a child. The elders that are here who continue to inspire the little ones and groom the next generation. I have stated before that this Darwinism on full display. The weak, in spirit, content, substance, contribution will either get bored or will dismiss themselves. Until then, antics and exceptional performances will be performed to woo and garner the attention of those of influence. Do the means justify the ends?

One of the problems we have here is self-selection bias towards being excited about steemit itself and crypto in general. One of the reasons posts about the platform itself are so abundant and remain a viable strategy for attracting attention is the fact that they appeal to the largest percentage of the users here who are here because they have a positive attitude towards the platform or they wouldn't be here.

As you pointed out, new users find it inspiring and motivating in the short run and whales find it positive. In a sense, this is the least objectional type of post one could make and the one with the broadest appeal so those posts are still successful. In a sense, that's the least common denominator here and that's usually something that rarely of high quality and still tends to work. You can clearly see it happing in music as well.

I personally remember that when I started two months ago, this was one of the first types of content I interacted with, because most of the things I saw was about crypto that I was not so interested in and steemit itself which I was obviously interested and intriguied by which is the reason I registered.

I think steemit is still suffering from lacking well developed niches besides the meta conversation about the platform and crypto and this is a sign of a new platform and is something that we need to overcome.

Still, writing about steemit from time to time is fine if the posts are meaningful and honest, not just votebate, but we do need to make an effort to expand the niches that would bring people beyond the early-adopter phase. It's often what makes or breaks a platform really and HF19 might not have been a step in the right direction and I have my worries about HF20 as well.

We might be nearing The Chasm and that's going to be the make or break moment for steem as a whole.

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