Why are the value of votes going down this past month? [A Reader Asks]

in #steemit7 years ago (edited)

I received a question from someone and chose to answer it in a post for more people to benefit from the answer. @irawandedy said (in part):

"... I see in this month, the value of votes that have been given decreased very significantly, about what causes the friend? Many friends ask me this question and I can not answer it myself. thank you"

steemit-vote.jpg

There isn't only one reason, but several. Some of these reasons can recur at anytime, and some are a result of HardFork changes to the Steem blockchain code.

There are 3 main reasons I can think of:

  1. The falling price of STEEM.
  2. HardFork 19 changes.
    2a. HardFork 19 gave more power to SP holders which motivated self-voting.
    2b. HardFork 19 changed how the vote power works.
  3. Pay-to-play.

1. The falling price of STEEM

The falling price of STEEM makes your posts worth less USD/SBD. It's that simple. The payouts are always based on the value of the STEEM token.

When STEEM rises, your post value rises.

When STEEM falls, your post value falls.

This can happen because:
a) Bitcoin price falls which means the other tokens lose USD value as well.
b) More people are selling STEEM than buying which makes the price of STEEM fall.

Your post payout will fall, and your vote with have less value to allocate.


2. HardFork 19 changes.

2a. HF19 gave more power to SP holders which motivated self-voting

HF17 gave more power to SP holders. This means they could upvote themselves and get more money. And that's what they did.

Instead of using their power to vote for others like they did before, more and more users started to vote for their own comments.

Some people made new accounts to manipulate the reward pool and siphon rewards to their comments and posts, cross-account upvoting their comments and posts to increase their rewards/money in those various accounts. Collusion between people is always a factor on Steemit, but his new HF change made people collude more to get more money by upvoting themselves and each other.

Rather than use their vote power to reward others, they are concerned with rewarding themselves more.

With more people voting for themselves, your post payout will fall, and your vote with have less value to allocate. Even for those who vote for themselves, their vote value will go down.

Also note, that if more people join Steemit, and more people are voting, then more people influence how the reward pool gets allocated, and that also means your vote value will drop. This isn't the main reason for vote values falling though in the past month, but it may slightly contribute to that drop. The main reasons are the 3-4 I'm talking about.

2b. HardFork 19 changed how the vote power works

HardFork 19 changed how the vote power works, giving people less 100% votes that they were used to, which made them vote for less people.

The changes made the former 100% vote as powerful as the new 25% vote, making the new 100% vote a 400% vote before the hardfork. If someone changes their votes to 25%, it's the same as 100% before, and they can keep voting as they did.

All users with less than 500SP don't have the vote power bar to change their votes to 25%. So they don't keep voting as they did. Even users over 500SP with the bar chose to stop voting for as many people. Why? Maybe they wanted to upvote themselves more, which is reason #3.

When more votes are made on different posts, the reward payout on your own posts will go down.

More people are voting with 100% (400% in the former system) on their own comments, and this means more rewards are going to those comments, and less to the other comments and posts. All of the self-voting means everyone else gets less on their posts and comments voted on by other people, and their own votes on posts and comments goes down.


3. Pay-to-play

Many people are motivated to get money for their posts any ways they can, even paying someone to vote for them. They want to upvote themselves by paying someone to vote for them. The other person isn't voting for them because of the content, but because they are being paid to. It's a self-voting tool for the most part.

This has meshed with #3, where people are not upvoting their own comments to get more rewards, and they pay other to vote for their comments.

So instead of people voting on things they value from others, now some are paying for votes so they can pay themselves essentially. Less votes are going to other people, and more self-voting is happening through pay-to-play. It's not someone voting for themselves directly, but they are buying votes for themselves, so it's still self-voting.

All those pay-to-play votes for one's self, one's own posts/comments (self-vote), act like other self-votes, in that they apply more total votes in the system and that reduces the influence of your vote, making the value of your vote go down.


I hope these answers provided the information to understand why the value of your vote is going down.

If you have a question you would like me to do a post about, please feel free to ask :)


Thank you for your time and attention! I appreciate the knowledge reaching more people. Take care. Peace.

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Good information here, enjoyed reading , thanks.

The story post is very thought out but I have one question in regard to this comment:

People are selling STEEM which makes the price of STEEM fall

Wouldn't this only make the price of Steem fall if people were asking less for Steem than the current market price? I see bots all the time on small volume trading sites that manipulate the price of coins to make it look like the market is pumping to get the volume to increase and then dump their coins at a price point that gives them a decent price.

So if the majority of people asked for a price higher than the market wouldn't this actually help the price of Steem trend upward?

Again, thanks for the post.

Good point !

Go look at any coin, and zoom in to find a time where there is a sharp red descent. That is when people are selling below the selling price, and taking the buyer prices. I didn't mean whenever someone sells STEEM it will make the price fall and affect payouts. It takes an actual large amount of volume, like the red descent on charts. That shifts the price measurably. If people are willing to pay the asker price, or more, that sends the price higher yes.

You just explained what I wrote in my response. I just wanted clarification on what you meant with that quote. The way it was written made it seem if someone sells steem, in general, that the price goes down. Thanks for clarifying what you meant.

People are selling STEEM which makes the price of STEEM fall

It's just referring to simple supply and demand.

If everyone is selling, then there is more supply than demand so the price will fall. If everyone is buying, then there is more demand than supply so the price will rise.

At the moment because the price is falling so hard and people are panicking, we're seeing more people dump their Steem on the market and just increasing the supply with nobody there wanting to buy it until it bottoms.

Yeah, I'm one of them people waiting for it to bottom.

A great post @krnel, I just found a satisfactory answer. Thank you for your help, i can not repay your kindness right now. May be a time or only a god able to reciprocate :)

Thanks for reading and providing a question that others were asking as well ;)

Wow. Your analysis is very insightful, thank you! I am a minnow and new to Steem. I actually didn't know we shouldn't vote for ourselves. Now I know. I will never do it again. I'm learning lol. I am going to re steem your post and upvote. Thanks again =)

Yeah the principle is good to apply all around. But the major issue is when it's on everything. If you make 1,2,3 posts a day, then it doesn't affect it as much. So it's up to you if you want to not upvote your own posts. I would say just don't be someone who upvotes all their comments or uses pay-to-play to buy yourself a vote. Thanks for the feedback.

Its the fork.. I used to have one or two whales come by and upvote my posts of course aiding in others to upvote. I was just starting to get every post hitting double digits, now its far and few between with better posts and more followers. Not the greatest vibe since then...

Yup, my votes cut in half almost, probably like 40-45%, after the HF. Not much we can do about that, even if the HF is reversed, I wonder if those upvotes would come back :P

Thank you for this post it explains everything I wanted to know for the most part but I want to know what do I need to do you give people more money? I don't like just giving two to eight cents, thank you for your time

That's based on Steem Power in your wallet. You can make posts with "100%" to get all SP. Or you can buy more STEEM. I would say just make more posts and feedback on other posts with comments, make relevant comments and link to relevant posts that may have made.

Thank you so much for the information and answering me much appreciated krnel🕊

My point of view: The number of accounts are rising, but the issue of steem is the same. This means that when you vote the quantity of steem that you are sending is weighted with all users... then you send less money. We have to add the drop of steem price.

New users with hardly any SP voting does have some effect as well, thanks, but the issue wasn't present prior to the HF when new users were joining anyways. Maybe now it's amplified more though despite the low SP because of the HF changes, thanks for the feedback.

Great analysis @krnel. I am new to steemit and was wondering why the value of vote keeps changing... Your post explains it. However, another question that I didn't really research on yet... Sometimes my vote gives 1 cent and there are times when it had been more than $5. I am not controlling how much to give, but what defines this?

In the time you opened the post, and read it, someone else voted, or more than one person voted, and all their SP gets added to the updated $ you see when you cast your vote. It only updates when you load a page of upvote to change the $ value.

Makes so much sense @krnel. Thank you for spelling it out. I'm gonna share this with some friends who were wondering the same thing.

Sweet, glad it's been beneficial to many, I figured it would help to provide some partial answers at least ;)

Yes, and I really hope your "Only Upvote Others Athon" takes off!

I wonder... how to make that "take off"? Hehe...

I don't know, except for just to keep talking about it. I do KNOW one thing, it will catch on, and it will become the norm eventually <3

In a year?
:P

I suppose once there is enough social pressure and...

LOLOLOLOL

Thanks for sharing this valuable information, i was wondering what was going on as well but now i am aware. Upvoted Resteemed and followed!!!:)

Glad to help, thank for the support ;)

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