Go watch 'The Red Pill' is berniesanders doing what feminism did to men's rights movement?
So I think I got taken in by what appeared to be a scam, I threw my weight into it before truly understanding the situation. I was triggered by his claims of fraud, there are scammers here, was this a real one? I don't know, but a ton of users just showed up, of course they commented on his posts.
He made it appear that a huge problem was afoot, when in fact a ton of new users had just shown up and this guy was gaining huge steem. Now I feel horrible.
Put your effort behind someone, not to destroy. There is a reason berniesanders has a -18 reputation. What this man does is generate hate, I've not seen anything positive from him. I am ashamed. I'm sorry I jumped on this bandwagon and will never do it again.
Go watch 'The Red Pill' because I'm starting to think what feminism did to the Men's Rights Movement is happening here. Logic is exchanged for reason/logic without real understanding.
But you won't sway minds by attacking, that just strengthens their resolve. I hope more recognize this and apologize. But who needs an apology, why not just settle for stopping putting their steem behind that which is negative.
I talked with bernie in chat and encountered him on different occasions (flag wars). I am not on his side in general, but I think it is good to have someone like him around, who will flag everything he deems bullshit.
It is just much more sympatic than all these rainbow puking other wales and dolphins.
Destruction is part of change.
He also got -18 from @dan in person. It is not like he drew the hate of actual Steemians.
Disagree, I know of 6k Steemians that he drew the hate of.
personally?
Sure, the same way you know all your followers personally. I help promote Haejin, so no not the same way for me maybe, but it's not a far reach at all.
The guy is selling the idea that Haejin uses 6k bots (ridiculous and unfounded)....when he openly uses tons of bots to ruin people's accounts for no reason except that he doesn't like the picture they took...yes I've see that actually happen. I'd like to see ONE piece of evidence of these 6k bots Haejin uses, rather than speculation by a few who know nothing of the truth of how hard it was to get to this point.
lol, ofc @Haejin is using bots. Are you retarded?
Umm no sir I'm not, and prove that to me....or just believe whatever people speculate on. Doesn't matter.
I don't see him creating anything, he seems just to be negative. That is not something I will ever support again.
He literally just drained a ton of steempower from legit post that all these folks used to downvote, how is that helpful?
You always need to destroy something to create something. Think of it like cooking: You need to killl the ingredients before you can create the meal.
I would agree that he is more about making witty insults than contructive criticism, but I understand why he is frustrated with Steem.
I'm interested in working to stop the circlejerking, but I doubt that flagging will get the job done.
Hey man, i came here to talk, because the original post is todo cluttered and sluggish.
You do have a point in what you say, and some of the people involved may be following and "false prophet" one side or the other.
But, as you said yourself, you jumped in withouth Second thoughts, and regret It later, with some good reasons, i might say.
So, always do your research before agreeing with what someone have to say.
For example, from what i know about Financial markets what he claims cannot be truth. The best Financial advisor in the world could only reach 68% of prediction accuracy. And Elliot waves technic? Thats is a really controversial technic when it comes to accuracy.
But these things didnt bothered me, since people has been following bad "Magic" advice since the beggining of times...
What made me see that there is something fishy going on is this:
Too many autovotes from newly created accounts that only defend him (like 2s between votes) and with pretty weird accounts
One big account that was created around the same time, that did nothing (no votes, no posts) and sundenlly, when it have a huge bought/transfered power, started to vote 100% only on haejin account
A sudden appearence of New accounts coming in to defend haejin
5 to 6 posts a day, with information that could easily fit on 1 or 2 posts.
A too big reward for some dubious content (disagreement with a reward is a validad suggested flag reason)
And a lot of other few bit of information that i checked through the steem tools avaiable.
So my position is that berniesanders methods and arguments may not be the best ones, but in this particular case he does have a point.
Btw, good video you suggested. I Will Watch It fully when i get some time today.
I don't think we are going to fix this type of problem with flags. A bunch of good users just lost their 'upvotes' for good purposes.
I think we are going to need to develop some sort of system to watch for circle jerks. what I hear berniesanders also sells his votes. to me that is the same type of bullshit. I don't think selling your votes is a good thing, and it will only lead to corporate type behaviour here that is devoid of individual content.
Once non-individuals get involved, which i believe has already happened but on a small scale, the front page of steemit will look like reddit and just as controlled.
I've already experience the effects of what I see as non-legit voting practices to hide dissenting opinions. how do i know? because I argued with them, discovered their circular arguments, and felt the weight of their authoritarian view points.
Damn i Love when i find people that want to do healthy debates!
The problem is that the flags is the only mechanism we have to control things around here. The platform has some inherent problems, on this case, on one side power to the wealthy, and the other side, abusing If the system for personal gains.
Shouldnt we try to fight first the bigger evil?
Power to the wealthy is a problem, and this Power nerds to be better distributed, but from what a saw, at this moment there is some balance between the whales opinions. As you can see, @berniesanders -18 rep came from @ned that saw some abuse on his methods.
In the other side, the abuse If the system can create a bigger problem: If most of the content created here is valued by bots, and people gaming the system, the other accounts that contribute with good content may start to lose faith on the project, leave, and all the newcomers will see here is bots and fake accounts circlejerking squeeze the most they can of the system before It implodes.
We have a good thing here, and i dont want to projects like utopia.io that are doing something really good for the world dissapear among a mass of blind retarded followers(on both sides), bots and fake accounts that do nothing but overvalue shitposts.
Things like what you write here is what should have visibility.
I see that even with a -18 reputation and large amounts of money he was able to make a huge stink. So it returns to the users. But now that I think about it, what if your reputation affected how quickly your steem returned or what if have a bad reputation caused 'leakage' of steem power?
What I am reaching for is a system that would actually prevent abuse, but a low reputation is only so good in that it prevents people with huge amounts of money continuing to game the system. let their money be tainted with their low reputation, let it follow it wherever it goes.
of course in this instance we would need a much stronger 'justice system' that looks more carefully at downvotes. Certainly not something that depends upon flash decisions and people that are unaware (aka the bandwagon effect). But I certainly feel we should be able to call into question haejin's benefactor, let him defend in an open judgment type system.
Bah, but in the end all these rely on people actually voting without greed in their hearts, without jealousy.
As I once heard, and believe, all systems fail when those that lead/implement it are corrupt. The United States came the closest to having an uncorruptable system, it at least forces them to come up with a good story, but the control of the media has lead to another form of control, one that I feel places like steemit could break, and honestly think that is why it is now under attack.
absolutely agree. It has so much potential, but how do we control without allowing it to be abused? No answer will be without contention, and I honestly don't know that I have it, but what if we all worked to find it? It is relatively easy to spot those that are willing to have a healthy debate and those that are stuck in an agenda type speech patterns, but man, the really good ones are tough to spot....
so a division of 'power' needs to happen, we do need a 'leader' and perhaps a 'justice system' and then a 'congress' that works independently of each other. What would be really nice is if all discussions/debates happened here, in the open, like we are doing now. I'm so tired of secrets...
One of the problems If humanity is that when there is Power and/or money somebody Will want to take advantage of It.
About the reputation system:
The reputation number is the least important number on the reward distribution. Is there as a marker of How much the community approves the user. It only increase/decrease when a user with higher reputation than yours vote on one of your posts, and increase on a log scale. It is a bit harder to manipulate.
What defines the reward is the ammount os SP. So it is kind of easy, If you have enough money, to pull out something like what i think os happening in this case. (Inactive account sundenly recieves shitload of money and start voting one user only). That is the exact definition of abusing the system.
But the thing that worries me is that things like this doesnt seem to be If concern to the devs, and most of the whales.
Even lacking manners and better facto check, and not a really good way to call for support, the only big player i see doing something close to try to reduce the damage os berniesanders.
The big problem is that this is a mob justice. And really bad things can happen when mob justice os the norm.
But If the devs themselves, who have the Power to set the rules to make things more Fair to everyone doesnt seem to Care, these kind of things Will keep on going until the platform os dead.
Its a hard subject to define wich course this should take. But the ones that should be talking about this are silent...
if our 'leaders' (whales/devs) choose to do nothing than this platform fall. Nobody said it was easy, and how can the whales not care? if money means nothing to them, well than the 'proof of stake' model fails when people have so much money they ignore everything to do their agenda.
Consider to, as long as you can buy in with fiat currency, then people that print it can buy all the steempower they need to do their evil deeds.
So perhaps we need a platform that remains somewhat closed, or less useful in gaming the system with fiat currency.
Maybe there needs to be more control around 'powering up' that revolves around have at least a decent reputation, that requires people to show they provide value to the community before they are allowed to become a whale, because lots of money doesn't mean lots of integrity.
Indeed.
Do you mind If i use this conversation on a Future article?
The way steemit Works generates philosohical questions by itself... If its a Free speach platform, should everything be allowed?
But isnt Free speach limited by the harm words can do? (Like is It Free speach when i disseminate hate against a particular set of citizens?
But How do we give freedom If se dont have accountabilty for each action?
Also, people on our position, (new minnows), How do we get our voice heard, when the volume os those who have more money is higher?
There is lots of questions.
Please feel free to use my words, I meant them publicly, but please work to keep my own doubt as to final outcome. I am not certain in any of this, but appreciate a free discussion that leads to some conclusion based on the problems presented here.
Best of luck, and perhaps link me here to it, or some other way of replying, should i be busy and miss the link in my feed. ; )
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