Why the change from 40 to 5 votes is terrible for us small fish.

in #steemit8 years ago (edited)

There are all these threads and arguments about how great this new system based on 5 votes instead of 40 a day will be. Well as a small fish this is going to kill my steem use for many reasons.

  1. The big argument for this is you can still vote as much as you want but at reduced power. This is not true. You only get the slider to choose your voting power if you have high enough steem power. This means 99% of the people will be limited to 5 votes a day or eventually go to 0 voting power and be unable to vote.

  2. Small fish have little chance of getting a curation reward. Unlike the bigger fish are SP is so diluted that we not only have to vote at the right time on a thread but hope that thread both makes enough that are small cruation reward is over .001 and that someone bigger doesn't vote and knock are percentage of the curation to 0%. Even with 40 votes and 115 SP I'm lucky to get 4 or 5 small curation rewards a day. We are talking pennies or less here. Now divide that by 8 and maybe get a curation of a few pennies every 2 days.

  3. Comments. People rarely vote on comments now with 40 votes who thinks anyone will vote on them with 5? It's also nice when someone makes a comment you like on one of your threads to vote for that comment. This will not be possible with only 5 votes. Only the 1% will be able to vote on comments in their thread giving them an advantage of drawing more people to their threads and keep them active so they get even more of the limited votes.

  4. Flagging. Right now I use several of my votes each day to fight spam. That will no longer be possible. Flagging will be for the 1%. Spam and plagiarism fighting will slowly grind to a halt while bots create more and more accounts and overwhelm those in the 1% who do try to fight the abuse.

  5. Bots. I have heard over and over this is going to be a blow to bots. Well simple math tells me it will not. Bots with little SP will have their votes cut but those bot owners can just create 8x the bots to compensate and still have those 40 votes. Bots with SP can just set their voting to 12.5% or even less and have 40 or more votes a day. Bots can adjust rapidly to any changes. People take time.

  6. Usability. The average user and new people don't know about SP or don't want to bother with all the settings. They just want to read, comment and vote. Now they will have to constantly check their SP, count their votes, and worst of all ration them. How many will say I love this but I'm not going to vote on it because something better may come along in the next few hours? How many higher power people will want to set power on every vote?

  7. Pay to play. You want to vote and enjoy steemit? You better be well know and get the votes from the 1% with the power or buy your right to have votes. I think this is really a way to try to make people buy steem power. People have been powering down and cashing out and the price of steem is down. Make people need to buy steem to use the site and try to drive the price back up. Makes steemit look like a pyramid scheme even more. The 1% are climbing better add another tier and keep them down.

  8. Censorship. Limiting voting for one group (in this case the majority) and not another group is censorship. You can spin it anyway you want but it's still censoring the ability of the majority to state their opinion by voting.

Let's finish this off with some numbers. From what I have read the cutoff to get the slider is around 310SP. I'm not a writer so I have been making small posts, commenting, and voting. Most of my SP came from comments and converting my SBD to steem power from that. It's taken me almost 2 months to get to 116SP even with mining. Now I would need almost 3x that to get the slider to get my votes back so another 4 months stuck with 5 votes a day. Even longer since the chance of getting a curation reward will be 1/8 of what it is now and comment rewards will be next to nonexistent. Even worse with this user experience I will probably just leave and I'm sure a lot of others will too.

Now take a look at the trending page right now. The top 10 posts have a total of 2902 votes. How will this look after the changes? Giving the benefit of the doubt and going with the active in the last 24 hours percentage instead of all users about 10% will be able to vote more than 5 times so 90% of those will have their votes cut. Those 10 posts could be reading as 616 votes between them. Yes this is so variably it can be argued to death but the point is that the top trending posts could have as few as 60 votes. People are going to look at that and say who even uses this site? Really though I think you will see just as many votes in those top 10 where it will hurt is every little content creator. People will vote with the money and all the small fish trying to crate content will suffer. Those with SP and who are already popular will get more so. The rich and famous get even richer and more famous.

I can see my average day if this goes into effect. Vote on my thread (if I bother to make one anymore). Vote on my friends threads. Have 1 vote left and keep that just in case another friend makes an article. Possibly use it before I got to bed. Go from hours a day browsing, commenting, and voting on steemit to a few minutes when someone links in chat then go back to reddit where I can comment and vote as much as I want. I'll be making the same both places after all........

So do you small fish still think the 40 to 5 vote a day change is a good idea?

Sort:  

the big fish have a voting slider, so they can give 10% votes now

which means that instead of giving 5 votes, they can now give 50 x 10% votes

there will be a lot more voting going now

The whales already have that ability. This will just extend it down to more people but the vast majority will not have it.

#3 really hits the mark. Why spend your time actually reading the article and commenting on it, when no one will want to upvote your reply. Spend the time writing your own stuff instead of commenting I guess.

It might be a good strategy to just write five posts a day and use your five votes on your own stuff.

Not everyone is a writer, photographer etc. A site needs more readers/commenters than creators. Like saying everyone should be on the football team instead of enjoying watching the game.

THAT is an excellent comment!!!
(But sorry I can't afford to upvote it tho, you understand I'm sure... JK!)

Very good analogy! Why not post this in the thread where the change was announced?

i dont post, I'm not a writer, I'm a reader/learner ... this imo ruins the chance for being a curator and getting any comment votes, so ..what's the point of even reading ?, what the point of "Engaging" at all? just lurk and read I guess

I think it's just a cover to force people like us to buy steem to power up if we want to participate.

not going to happen

You nailed it. The negative effects will cascade beyond upvotes on the post. Also if you create 4 articles a day you are now only left with a single full power upvote to grant to someone else. Do you think I'm going to give that upvote to your comment? Fuck no, I'll save it and give it to one of my dolphin friends so they don't forget about me when they are giving out their limited votes.

This will compound the social clique problem already bubbling under the surface.

So if we take your point and @ibringawareness point above, combine it with @fubr-bdhr entire post, what hell are we supposed to do? How can we make this work without throwing a bunch of money at it... either buying SP, promoting or paying others to post our stuff for us?

You're brilliant. Problem solved!
Except we're all limited to four posts, so one to share

lol... another boob that didn't read the whitepaper :)

Can't reply below your other one so replying here.

Unless they changed it there is no payout after the 30 day one.

That's a bummer. I've been thinking about that for a while. thanks for answering it.

It hurts your rewards if you post too often. 4 a day is about right.

So when you write something, you receive a distribution at 24 hours and then after thirty days. Do you keep getting them every thirty days into infinity, or just two payments?

Replying to @vegascomic below, I am hoping they eventually make the payout ad infinitum as well - or even just one year -but guess there's only so much free money they can give away. I do think longer payouts would increase the user base and activity on the site tho, as you'd post more hoping for payoffs years later as well. Maybe if it incorporated an activity threshhold, like "one post per month" rule or something like that.

An upvote from someone like myself with 600+sp is still pretty worthless even at full power, but whales and dolphins will still be upvoting comments as well as posts, so there is no reason to see this as a reason to stop reading and commenting at all.

I tend to agree with you. I think it's going to make the activity on the site grind down almost to a halt for awhile. But I'm not opposed to them testing it out, this is still Beta. I'm going to wait 15 or 30 minutes, then upvote this article, haha.

Attempting to curate one of my posts? You would have more luck searching for pennies in a local parking lot. :D

Hahaha! Maybe I'm working on building a following at the same time ;)
Nah this is a hot topic, I'm surprised it hasn't taken off yet. It will.

I think varying vote power should be available to all also. It will be built into my #steemportal app

Neat I glanced at the portal - will try to save/keep up with. Thanks for offering your innovations and working to make this a better place !

Yes limiting voting for one group but not another is censorship plain and simple. Knew there was something esle I wanted to ad to the post. Edit time.

You could say voting raising a post in the 'trending' page is a kind of censorship also. Humans need to filter information. It is a filtering system. I don't think that Steem is small enough anymore that one Trending feed will see you click a link within 3 screenfuls. Even in your narrowed down personal feed, there is still too much, although at least it goes slower.

You can't call it censorship if it is just someone choosing not to pay attention to you. Censorship is where you cut the distribution pathway from source to some destination, by force.

The protocol allows for more than one view of the database.

I appreciate your input on this matter. I'm not sure how it will work in the long-term, or if it will stay the way that it is now, but I'm not entirely optimistic about it either.

Agreed, it's not a good thing, and I'm going to leave it to the big brains to implement a better solution to the whales/upvote power/bots problem. Thanks for such a detailed article tho, and yes I read it before voting.
Yours and others (and my own waking thoughts) have me brain storming my own article for later.. generally I think the only way to make money here is by writing articles - but to make money you first need to spend a few hundred hours (maybe) commenting, voting, interacting, and drawing followers (small fish I mean). Hundreds of them, thousands... Remeber we're still in beta, and there might be millions of people here soon. Work on getting a following, then your articles will be upvoted. I hope!

And yes you DO have a followng already I see, just keep up the good work. Cream rises to the top, don't give up brother. Following.

I never really like the whole following thing. I browse the new page and look for stuff I'm interested in. I only had 2 friends followed for a long time until one told me I wouldn't get votes unless I was following other people. Feels kind of wrong to follow just because but that seems to be the way the system works.

I'm a small fish but I can't really understand your post. I'm sorry, but I'm not already into the "Steem Power" thing. I don't understand how that work, so I don't have a clear opinion about this change.

Interesting article, anyway. We'll see how it will be :)

It seems like this is going to kill off the profit you'd make from upvotes on your comments. You said you're mostly a curator and commentor. I am too and as I look through my history, I've gotten a lot of payouts from them. I'm not sure anyone is going to upvote comments anymore. :(

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