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RE: Liquid Steem Rewards are Here - Math Time!

in #steemit4 years ago

There's the suggestion to increase Steem's price, which will then lead to more SBD getting printed (because the higher Steem is worth, the more STUs are handed out, and the more SBD relative to Steem that pump out), which should hopefully lead to SBD's price going down - increase supply, lower demand, lower prices, right? Well, I've had some thoughts about that before.

Ah here you are talking about the feed price. I actually think this is a viable option if we want to keep in the SBD zone. But you're right about one thing-- it's still so susceptible to a pump that it could send us into longer term STEEM printing than we'd like. I'd go with the wait and see approach, as you are suggesting.

(There are by the way some witnesses that want to tweak these thresholds to give us even more room, but that is an actual code change of the steem blockchain itself, and unlikely to happen. This along with reverse conversions code and all sorts of fun stuff...)

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Would it work though? Because if you manipulate the feed price, it manipulates both how much SBD gets printed and what the system thinks the market-cap is. You're going to really have to mess with it constantly to make sure one moves without the other, overmuch.

The alternative is, indeed, to trust in Steem to skyrocket. Well, that's not "trust," so much as it is "belief." Or, well, yes, to rework the system entirely. Somewhere.

Here's how I think about it: Changing the feed price essentially changes what the target peg is. So if you double the usd price of steem for the feed, you are effectively intending to peg the value to 0.5 USD (long term).

So you can still do the same exercises in pretending to reason about half dollars. But still, you are right, it's a bit tricky. Especially with the low liquidity of SBD already.

replying again, now that we are closer to mutual understanding :D

Woah. That 10% threshold is something I was looking for but never found in the code. I'm going to go double check that now...

[edit]. Looked again, I cannot find that 10% behavior... any pointers? @inquiringtimes

There are a lot of things that have since been edited, or even edited out. Such as the plan to every so often divide all Steem amounts and prices by 10 to fight inflation.

I wonder if this is one of those older figures that is no longer accurate but was intended. @timcliff?

I'm actually laughing at that divide by ten to divide inflation. That sounds suspiciously like another hyper inflated real world currency. But I do remember steem inflation curve had that property at one time...

These are very old posts from 2 years ago.

changing the bias, which is what I believe you two are discussing with the wrong terminology, is simply letting the blockchain know how much rewards should be liquid. increasing the bias would lead to more liquid rewards.

no one is manipulating the feed price. feed price is pulled by a script from a variety of exchanges and averaged out over the past 3.5 days.. the witness feed price is only wrong when their script is acting up. It is never manipulated to produce some effect on sbd print rates. Bias is what we should be discussing here.

BTW, in case it makes you feel better, the system is so convoluted I almost think it is on purpose.

What tripped you up is exactly some of the stuff I mentioned on Discord clarifying up for others before. The Witness Price Feed, that is. A lot is actually dependent on it, and even I got it wrong, such as the relationship between Steem going up/down and our rewards... it's all VESTS man.

I think we are on the same page. The terminology is confusing due to how it is displayed in various places. At the end of the day, the blockchain only cares about one number: the number the witness states in its own feed price. (Look at the steemd page of the individual witness setting the price to see what I'm talking about)

see, that's where we are not on the same page...

all the way on the right hand side is the bias column... depending on where the bias is set is what determines how much rewards are liquid, and how much are sp. The higher the bias, the more liquid, and less SP... if no bias then it's 50/50 (also ignoring the actual price of sbd, but acting as though all sbd ==$1 worth of steem)

the bias has never been used by enough top witnesses (at least in my time here) for it to impact our rewards at all, but that is the variable which can be changed not the feed price. The feed price is Always to be a reflection of whatever is pulled and averaged from various exchanges and performed by a script.

I hear you, but again. It has the same effect as what I'm saying. For example: netuoso has a bias, and I found where it shows in steemd:

Screenshot_20180318-211438.png

In the end it's the median of these prices that are set that determine the feed price the blockchain uses. Yes it uses the USD STEEM ticker as the base, but my point still stands.

(We could easily swap the feed for something else and get everyone to pin it to something else like gold which is what golos does, but I digress.)

ok, now I see where I was confused... what the bias does, is actually change the pricefeed at the blockchain level... so yeah,ok.... sorry!!!!

https://steemit.com/steem/@fow/aggressively-forcing-sbd-peg-by-adjusting-feed-bias-witness-digression

:blushes:

sorry for arguing in circles with you.

but bias doesn't effect the price feed, only the way that rewards are handled... which is what I thought, until I read this article just now

https://steemit.com/witness-category/@timcliff/witness-voting-guide

which states that the bias is a way to effect how conversions are handled, and says nothing of how rewards are handled... I guess I'm going to do more reserach... the whitepaper has nothing on bias :(

That's because the white paper only mentions the feed price. Bias is just a convenient way of expressing how much we are deviating from market price.

Everything in the block chain uses the feed price to convert to and from steem and sbd.

I should mention I had this same confusion when comparing the white paper to steemd witness page settings and the bias discussion.