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RE: Should I up vote this guy ranting? No I might face retaliation
And you expect new people to know your esoteric rules?
You expect them to know people already wrote about a similar topic they are writing about?
You expect them to know what tags they can and cannot use without getting flagged?
DO I GET TO MAKE UP RULES FOR YOU? (I don't want to... I stated that question to drill a point home)
EDIT: For clarity, I was not one of those flagged this way. I just see the harm this is doing.
Using the right category is absolutely not an esoteric rule. It is a rule that is implemented on every well managed forum on the internet. That's just about as esoteric as wearing clothes when you go outside.
It's not just one person, it's a huge amount of posts that hit the front page. WAY too many people write about steemit. For this site to reach mass adoption, it needs more content that isn't related to steemit, as most people don't care about the complex inner workings of this site.
The tags they can use without getting flagged are tags that relate to the post. I wouldn't tag this post with "art" because it has absolutely nothing to do with art. In a store, putting a lawnmower in with the food "to get it more exposure" is frankly stupid. Organizing things makes life easier for everyone.
No reply button available for the comment I'm really replying to. Replying to this...
https://steemit.com/steemit/@dwinblood/should-i-up-vote-this-guy-ranting-no-i-might-face-retaliation#@benthegameboy/re-dwinblood-re-benthegameboy-re-dwinblood-re-benthegameboy-re-dwinblood-should-i-up-vote-this-guy-ranting-no-i-might-face-retaliation-20160811t024435677z
"...Nobody who thinks about what tags are appropriate for a post and what aren't should ever tag a post incorrectly...."
With the exception of the "steemit" tag, I mostly agree. It is incorrect for the steemit tag, though. I've been using Internet forums since the days of dial-up modems, usenet news, Bulletin Boards, and AOL chat rooms, but I was confused about the use of the steemit tag until I happened to stumble across someone's unauthoritative post on the topic today. Does the "steemit" tag mean "pertaining specifically to steemit" or does it mean a "general catch-all for everyone on steemit"? I could've argued it either way until I saw someone's strong opinion on the topic today. Fortunately, I didn't step in that particular landmine and get my reputation crushed, but how many other landmines are out there waiting to trip me up while I am learning the ropes?
Anyway, I don't have any problem with community enforced rules, and from the top-level post, I am fairly confident that @dwinblood doesn't either. I won't speak for anyone else, but what concerns me is the apparent (?) combination of arbitrariness and severity with the reputation system as it is currently implemented. Every STEEM/SP holder has a vested interest in getting this right. It's not just about the user experience, it's also about the value of our holdings. If over-flagging drives users away, our asset loses value. If poor quality content buries high quality content, then our asset loses value.
Bingo. I've been using computers since 1982. My first modem was a 300 BAUD modem. I was using the internet in 1989 and 1990 well before WWW hit. I in fact designed what were precursors to forums on a Vax VMS system used by my school. I've used most of the social media platforms, hundreds of forums, and quite a number of portals that no longer exist.
Expecting users to "know" and being biased about what is "common sense" is poor design. That type of thinking ALWAYS fails. There are too many people with many different levels of intelligence, and it isn't even an intelligence thing. People approach problems differently. They think differently.
You cannot operate from ASSUMED rules, and what you consider COMMON SENSE, or because it was this way somewhere else. That doesn't work. Well actually it can work but with a lot of bumps, and pissed off people. Usually you only get away with it if it is tied to a job or some other thing which kind of forces people to DEAL WITH IT and use it.
The attitude produces piss poor software designs from a large scale deployment perspective. You simply cannot expect people to think the way you do. If anyone takes a Systems Analysis & Design course in Software Engineering or Computer Science they are usually shown this.
I've been using the internet since CompuServe on amber screens. And let me tell you, life is good now.
How long ago were you new? I am about 4 weeks in. I do remember the first few times I posted not quite having a hang of the tags. I believe my first post was possibly in steemit. Why? Because, I looked at another post and emulated it.
You have VERY flawed thinking if you believe everyone approaches the problem the same way as you and I. They don't.
Have you ever written any code? If you have then you'll know what I mean. You write code designed to use a specific way, and you drop it in a big user pool and they end up using it in ways you did not predict. This may require making more error correction, or other things to help.
The point is you can't create a platform designed for the public and slam them when they are NEW for not knowing this issue.
I will say I do think most topics I put in #steemit likely were valid for that, but I can't say 100%.
It is also not something I would be sitting there thinking "Should I be doing this?" I make up my own tags, or I look at the list of current tags and I pick 4 (yes I only use 4) that I believe fit my topic.
Yet that is MY procedure. No one taught it to me. I can't guarantee most of the public will do the same thing as me. To expect that they would is ludicrous.
Except that slamming people for not knowing what to do is what every other platform does. If you post what you had for lunch today on some band's Facebook page, the post is obviously going to be deleted. If you were to post something about a new game coming out on /r/askreddit it would be deleted because that is obviously not the right place for it. You have to assume that there is a baseline level of knowledge for anyone using any website or else you will get stuck explaining every single thing which is not an good use of time. Nobody should have to be told that "You only should add tags that relate to your post". That should be assumed knowledge. Every other site has knowledge that is assumed, and steemit's will have to be that you should never tag posts with tags that don't relate to it's content.
We hit the nesting limit... responding to:
I was under the impression we were trying to be better than the other platforms.
That people didn't want the reddit style chats where moderators nuke anything they don't like or disagree with so many channels are 100% circle jerk with people only agreeing with everything.
So to be honest with you I don't give a damn what the other platforms do. We can learn from their mistakes, and I believe this is one of them.
Steemit is already completely different than that simply because it has no central moderation. Posts cannot be deleted, as they are and will be present until the entire blockchain is gone from every computer. Circlejerk is clearly not an issue. Tagging posts properly isn't hard to do and greatly improves the overall quality of the site. Nobody who thinks about what tags are appropriate for a post and what aren't should ever tag a post incorrectly.
You are correct it is not difficult. Yet it is still a learned thing. They wish to attract a lot of people here. Have you ever by chance taken a Systems Analysis & Design course? Since that focuses on exactly this problem. Assuming because something works for you that it is easy for everyone else. I am not writing any of these posts because they are happening to me. I am writing them because I am seeing them happening to other people. In many cases in situations where they shouldn't even BE happening. So no matter what your opinion is of how anyone should have "common sense" to do this is. It is irrelevant as I'm already seeing people having problems and most of these people are fairly tech savy. We want to attract a larger audience and these problems are likely to multiply. My posts are because this platform is AWESOME and its potential is WORLD CHANGING. It doesn't need baggage from other places that is known to cause strife. It is totally not needed. Fortunately it is in beta and hopefully the people that are designing it will see these things and think of some more experiments to try on us. I am fine with being a guinea pig. I've written a lot of software in my time, and I've seen a lot of software fail due to assumptions and arrogance of the programmers believing everyone should do it there way. I fired one at the behest of one place I worked at that had a PhD in Comp Sci and I took his job and fixed all of his code. His problem was exactly the same as yours. He said "it's easy... all they have to do is X" We were dealing with nurses, and doctors. They did it many different ways and it really didn't matter one bit what that programmer's opinion was on this. It mattered how the users used the software and what their perception was. Many pissed off nurses in boardrooms tend to trump a programmers opinion. Likewise, your opinion on what is easy and how everyone should intuitively know how to do these things WILL and IS being trumped by the fact we have a fairly technical user base and they are bumping into issues with this.
"Using the right category is absolutely not an esoteric rule. It is a rule that is implemented on every well managed forum on the internet."
Even so, the punishment should fit the crime. I agree that flagging is not censorship, but there's also something not quite right when someone gets the same penalty for using six hashtags on an otherwise well written post as they get for plagiarizing an entire article. And although what I've seen is anecdotal, it appears that some of these flag-downs are resulting in what is basically a "life sentence without the possibility of parole."
I'm still learning, so I haven't formed any strong opinions yet, but when new people like me are having reservations about even hitting the "Post" button, I think we might be seeing some warning flags.
Having enough flags to have your posts be grayed out is not a "life sentence without the possibility of parole", as just today I saw someone who made an apology post about spamming tags and their posts were not grayed out anymore.
As I said earlier, using the correct tags is not something that is difficult. Just thinking about what tags will fit the post rather than spamming the tags that have the most prolific rewards is enough.
This is one of the people who replied besides you.
https://steemit.com/steemit/@onceuponatime/flagging-etiquette-and-practice
You should read that.
I have already read that, in fact I have read it before this too, and it does not change my opinion.