A Few Clarifications About Steem.Supply Browser Mining
The coolest thing about the blockchain is that whatever you put on it, stays there immutably. In other words, you can't get back what you said, if you really said it.
And if you want to prove that something happened, well, a blockchain-based proof will always be 100% trustable.
With this small, but necessary introduction, let's get to work.
Does Steem.Supply Mines With Your Browser?
The short answer: yes. I wrote about that more than two months ago, and it's in the blockchain:
JSECoin - Mining Crypto Currencies In (or With) Your Browser
It's basically a presentation of a newly launched coin, called JSEcoin, which tries an in-browser mining approach. If you don't want to read the whole post (and by looking at how fast people jump to conclusions these days, I infer you don't) here's the most relevant part to our topic:
I write about cryptocurrencies daily here, sometimes 2-3 articles per day related only to new coins, interesting ICOs or other relevant blockchain projects. I found JSEcoin interesting enough to give it a try. And I publicly and openly announced it.
Even more, JSEcoin has a disclosure layer showing up for each site, in the footer. It looks like this:
So there was not only a written announcement about me experimenting with this new currency on steem.supply, but also a full graphical disclosure.
Why do I insist so much on this?
Well, because recently, 2 posts in the Steemit ecosystem exploded with accusations that "I hijack people's processors for my own profit". Interestingly enough, both posts have each more than $60 in payouts. Nice. Anyways...
Here are the links to the posts:
- https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@themarkymark/ufc-fight-pass-caught-secretly-mining-cryptocurrency-on-their-paid-service
- https://steemit.com/steem/@julienbh/steem-supply-is-mining-using-your-browser
The accusations are that I do this "secretly", in a "sneaking", "unethical" way.
Now, back to our intro: did I announce this publicly? Yes, it's in the blockchain. Is there a full disclosure about this? Yes. Go check it out, but try to have the ad-blocker disabled. An ad-blocker kinda defeats the purpose of letting announcements like this passing through.
So it's public and fully disclosed. And it's more than 2 months old. It's immutably stored in the blockchain.
Then what are we talking about here?
P.S. And to all of you who, carried away with the need to find an escape goat, called me "thief, fuck, cunt" and a few other names: if you want to talk to me, you'd better stop yelling at that mirror and turn around.
I'm right here.
I'm a serial entrepreneur, blogger and ultrarunner. You can find me mainly on my blog at Dragos Roua where I write about productivity, business, relationships and running. Here on Steemit you may stay updated by following me @dragosroua.
https://steemit.com/~witnesses
If you're new to Steemit, you may find these articles relevant (that's also part of my witness activity to support new members of the platform):
Hi everyone, I'm one of the developers at JSEcoin and I just wanted to comment without hijacking the thread if possible. So the privacy notice with opt-out link stays for 10 seconds before it fades out and you don't have to scroll to the bottom of the screen to see it as it's placed automatically at the bottom of your current view. There is a ten second delay but this coincides with the delay placed on the mining itself to ensure it doesn't affect page load speed times.
Browser based mining has got a bad reputation because some companies tried (are trying) to do hidden mining without users knowing. We really are trying to be as transparent as possible while still making this system work. An opt-in system wouldn't work for all the same reasons that opt-in doesn't work for online advertising. On that note it's worth mentioning that the script only uses excess CPU and is less resource intensive than an auto-loading video advertisement.
I understand that it's new technology and most people have a negative preconception of cryptocurrency mining.
Certainly the privacy notice is our responsibility and not the publishers so any negative comments there should be directed at us and we will take them into account. Before anyone eats me alive though I would just ask you take a quick look at our site or whitepaper to get a good understanding of the platform and what we are trying to do do.
I personally think that browser mining could be a great replacement for advertising if done well. I read not too long ago that The Pirate Bay was running a miner too. The reaction here is not a million miles from that.
The real question is not whether it's permissible, it's really cool, and there's no legal requirement to publicize usage (yet, see below), but whether or not it's done ethically. I have to side with most people and say that they way you did it was not ethical.
The one thing you said above but did not address is that it's for your profit. It certainly is. I see the real issue in people's minds here is that it's a reversal of miner beneficiary, and it's follows the pattern of malware. It will have a negative impact on computer performance for the user, though they may not notice. You are requiring them to pay for access to your website in a way that is not totally up front.
The notice needs to be loud and clear. For example, like the European cookies notices, it needs to be always visible until intentionally dismissed. This insures to a basic level that it is read and noticed.
The best way to run an experiment like this is to allow user to opt in to the service in someway. It could be a "mine wall", similar to a pay wall, that has a full screen notice blocking entry unless you accept the terms, which allow mining. Or it could be a premium version of the site which uses the miner. Either way if I were you I'd be less defensive about it and admit you dropped the ball slightly, especially since it's now a business for you.
Incidentally I would expect a ruling from state, international and federal bodies on this kind of thing too if it becomes popular, perhaps a ban. So it might be wise to stay 100% above board.
Thanks for your input. I didn't drop any ball but I appreciate how everybody is an expert over night. Where were you 2 months ago when I stated loud and clear that I'm going to test that?
I'm not defensive. I have nothing to defend.
I consider myself relatively expert, it didn't happen between yesterday and today. The personal jibe is not appreciated.
I'm not talking about whether or not you announced it in a post, but whether or not it is obvious to the visitors of your site, who may not have read that notice.
There's a reason why businesses are required by law to display certain notices prominently, sometimes in store if they have bricks and mortar stores, or on their online stores. It's because not every customer has taken the time to review every press release they've made recently for information that may be relevant to their custom.
Someone using your website essentially implicitly enters into a business agreement with you to lease their CPU power for access to your service. Most people want to explicitly make agreements, so this is the problem.
So, if I dare to question your expertise over a comment, you frown. But how am I suppose to feel when I'm called thief, fuck, cunt and so on?
And I think this may be the fourth time I'm writing this today, that I'm planning to put some sort of a notice on steem.supply on the next update.
Belive it or not, although very vocal, people who are not agreeing with how things are right now are still a minority. Things were ok for like 2 months, then suddenly this minority screams that whoever using a miner script is a villain, or a crook.
When did you get the consent of your users to mine cryptocurrency using their browser? I have your web page open in a browser with no ad blocks, there is no pop up or any kind of disclaimer saying that you monetize with cryptocurrency.
I mean, that's dramatically put, but for what it's worth I didn't call you any of those things and I'm sorry you were.
Usually the negative is louder than the positive, perhaps you can just ignore this ruckus. I wanted to challenge you to be more ethical and to examine whether you set things up ethically. I'm not convinced you really care about that so I suppose I have my answer.
Man, I wrote about that thing 2 months ago! I publicly stated this 2 months ago! You see this today and then you say I don't care about ethics?
There isn't yet any accepted standard about this and people are moving in droves, pushed by fear, in a direction which is usually worse than the current situation. Suddenly, there's over-standardization. People are forgetting what steem.supply is about and they only think about this mining thing. It's like they want to replace steem.supply with a huge banner saying: "I'm mining coins as a villain that I am, you fuckups! I want your CPU cycles as a villain that I am".
It's ridiculous...
I'm a follower of yours @dragosroua and enjoy reading your content.
This is a complicated situation. There's a lot of hypocrisy I see on this site around income streams. Everyone makes a buck somewhere, some are more honest than others with their methods. Some would like to seem extremely honest and selfless but perhaps their internal focus is not so kosher. We're humans and it's hardwired into most of us, I'm always surprised when people forget that and become upset...
To put this situation as simply as possible from my perspective, hopefully it helps rather than pours fuel on the fire.
I don't think it should be seen as a problem that you setup a way to make extra income and you did the right thing in making the announcement.
However, if you don't want anyone to call you out on things then it's up to you to mitigate that. You're in tech so I'm sure you're used to QA (and how tedious that can sometimes be) but it also exists for not only bugs but also to catch things like that.
Information needs to be apparent at all times, at source, not just an article from the past on Steemit (I know they're connected but still). Therefore, the people who are saying that should have happened, are right. Or at least they represent a percentage of people who are willing to kick up a stink if they're not satisfied. It's your responsibility to ensure users are aware of whatever you are doing, if you'd like to seem transparent that is. Now you already have this in place with the notification from JSEcoin, which is cool, but you need to test to make sure it's sufficient. It's the solution, I'm not saying it's one many or anyone would take time to ensure either...
When I say need, you don't NEED to. It's not a requirement, no one will lock you up. But you will have to weather the onslaught of potential hate in these situations and provide answers on the backfoot. By then, people can develop strong opinions that could have been halted at source. And this theory is correct anywhere, things should be tested rigorously, checked, etc or we run the risk of someone getting the wrong impression.
I hope that seemed more insightful than critical!
Thanks, appreciate the insight. I already put in place a one time popup notification and there is also a permanent notice at the bottom of the page. I would have done this anyway (and I told to some of the people asking if I would do this), if I wouldn't spend so much time answering to the comments (most of the time coming from people not knowing what they are talking about). I'm not hiding anything, I'm always open about what I do, so putting that notice wouldn't have been a problem anyway.
With that being said, let's put this behind.
Steem on!
Perfectly explained! People should learn and inform much better before accusing someone else...
I remember your post announcing the introduction of JSEcoin banner in your app. Service...
Fully supporting you.
Have a nice day!
Thank you for your support, really appreciate it! :)
I hear you and I do remember reading it about it on one of your posts and I have also seen it on the bottom of the page.
Might want to add a opt in or opt out though.
Thanks for the suggestion, it seems to be quite common. I will pass this through to JSEcoin people.
Are you mining monero? :)
Good job. I like it and will gladly give you some of my CPU power.
Neah, JSE, but I like how you think. Thanks :)
Now I learned something :D Ofc there is special coin just for that.
:))
Im working in web agency and we run some "passive income" websites with healthy traffic.
Can I get back to you in few months and ask more about this? How profitable it is and stuff like that?
Yes, absolutely. It's still at a very early stage, just numbers in a ledger, but if it takes off, it could be huge.
Hi @dragosroua - I first want to say that I appreciate your contributions to Steem and you were one of the first people I followed and supported as witness when i first joined the platform.
I see both sides of this "discussion". On one hand I think that using cryptocurrencies as a new way to monetize websites is a great concept (note that I say concept since it's not mature enough for me to evaluate how it will go in practice).
I think that it's something the Steem community should be especially supportive of researching and experimenting with. I, for one, would welcome the option to choose using my computing power to mine a currency to support the content I like to consume rather than seeing ads or paying a subscription fee.
On the other hand, recently there have been numerous, high-profile cases of popular sites using cryptocurrency miners in unethical and irresponsible manners. Unfortunately, like with all things, a few bad actors can ruin things and make things more difficult for everyone else.
Because of this, people like you who are experimenting with new ways of monetization will need to go above and beyond what probably should be necessary to educate users about these new ideas.
I think if similar information to what you shared above was displayed clearly and obviously on steem.supply (similar to how some sites have big clear notifications about cookies that stay until dismissed) then instead of this negative, knee-jerk reaction you might have a rather positive response.
Thank you for your support. I'm planning to add something on the next steem.supply update (it might be the third time I'm writing this in a comment today).
As for the knee-jerk reaction, I'm taking responsibility for my own deeds and words. Some people may need to practice that too.
I personaly think that web miners "stealing" some of my cpu cycles are less annoying than adds that stalks me. But thats only my personal opinion!
Thanks for your comment :) Good to know, it makes the case of browser mining more appealing than the one of ads.
I guess they are just jealous of the great work you are doing for this community.
I didn't know that on the blockchain everything that you say can't be changed.
Keep it up!!! Haters gonna hate.
Thanks for your support, appreciate it! And yes, after a 7 days window in which you can edit/ delete your post on the Steem blockchain, it can't be modified anymore. Even during this 7 days period, the root post will stay on the blockchain unchanged and each modification will create a copy of it.
Hi @dragosroua, you and @themarkymark were two of the first people that I encountered on Steemit. I have the utmost respect for the work that you do here and outside of this community, so it is difficult when there are opposing opinions about what is the 'right' or 'wrong' thing to do here. I try to tell people that Jedi and Seth are not 'good' or 'evil', but merely opposing forces required to keep the balance in the universe. I am just happy that there is an open and honest discussion for everyone to see, and similar to other cases where certain things have been implied or fingers pointed at specific users. In most instances I have been able to see both sides of the story and therefore able to come to my own conclusions - which is that you two are still both on my witness vote list (but I hope that doesn't offend either of you)...
I'm not offended in any way, by anything. I just state facts here, not emotions.
Thanks for the clarification.
I must admit that I was concerned and did not do any research to find out the truth.
Are you active on discord?
Hi, nope, not active there.