Steem Debates: Delegation - Helping The Rich Get Richer?

in steemdebates •  19 days ago 

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The new delegation committee have obviously been very busy. They have a new post about how they are structuring old and new delegations, which they have clearly worked very hard on.

However I think there is one point that needs to be addressed. I've posted a couple of questions on their post which hopefully will be answered. Though my comments are being ghosted by Sir Butthurt so I realise they may not be seen, which is why I'm making this post.

What Is Delegation?

Before we go on, I thought I'd better explain what delegation is for all those Steemians reading this who have no idea.

Quite simply delegation works in the same way a patronage worked in Elizabethan times whereby a rich benefactor would support the work of an artist that he or she liked.

In this case, the rich benefactor is Steemit and the artists are me, you and everyone else on the blockchain.

So if Steemit, or rather the delegation team, feel that your project is worthwhile, then they will delegate some steem to it.

Delegation Examples

In the past we've had delegations to projects such as @sndbox run by the brilliant and energetic @voronoi, and we have also had delegations to individuals such as @sweetsssj

So whether you're a group or an individual you can apply for delegation. Which you can use to enrich a particular community and of course the choice to self-vote is always there.

No Fair!

Okay so now you know what delegation is and what it can potentially be used for, let's get onto the bit where I think the new process falls down.

In order to put yourself in the running for a delegation in this new paradigm. You have to pay 40, 65 or 100 SBD, which at the moment is running at about 92% of the cost of a United States Dollar.

For me this will allow rich projects and individuals to apply, whilst keeping poorer ones outside in the cold, watching with their noses smooshed up against the window.

Revenue Burn

Let's get this clear right now. This is not an attempt by the delegation committee to make money. The Steem Dollars are burned and go to no one.

What they are doing is in fact quite noble, they are trying to help the currency by deflating it a bit.

However as I've already opined, I don't think it is fair. I personally have a project or two in mind, but I can't afford to throw money at something that may not yield any returns. That is gambling pure and simple, and the number one rule of gambling is to only bet what you can afford to lose.

I understand as well that a donation stops spam, however I just think the fees are too high, after all, these are fees for applications.

So my plea to the committee is to drastically lower those fees to something like 1, 1.50, and 2 SBD. That way some poor project in India has just as much chance as getting a delegation as a rich one in the United States.

Original Delegation Post

WHAT DO YOU THINK? SHOULD THERE BE ANY FEES TO THE APPLICATION PROCESS? HAVE YOU EVER PAID TO APPLY TO SOMETHING BEFORE? OR PERHAPS YOU THINK THIS IS JUST ANOTHER WAY FOR WHALES AND WHALE PROJECTS TO GET MORE POWERFUL?

AS EVER, LET ME KNOW BELOW!

Cryptogee

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I've not looked too far into how Steemit are running their delegation, but we could do with their SP doing some useful work. Is the fee to make it less attractive to get it for self voting? If you have a good project then it ought to be possible to raise 100 SBD across some Steemians. I know it's a lot in many places, but some people make that much in a few days.

Is the fee to make it less attractive to get it for self voting?

Not sure how it would stop self voting, in my mind it would increase it. If you have spent money to get the delegation, then you'll probably want to get that money back.

If you have a good project then it ought to be possible to raise 100 SBD across some Steemians.

Maybe, however the point still stands that it shouldn't be so cost prohibitive.

I know it's a lot in many places, but some people make that much in a few days.

Well exactly. So we could have a scenario of 2 great projects, however one is based in Lahore, the other in New York. The NYC project can easily raise 100 SBD, the Lahore project can barely scrape together 5 SBD, so New York wins simply because it has greater spending power.

I dunno man, that just doesn't seem fair to me.

PS: Thanks for your support and comments. Much appreciated!

Cg

  ·  19 days ago Reveal Comment

It's true, fair isn't always possible and sometimes trying to achieve it ends up messing everything up.

I've had a laugh from some of your recent posts. You are saying what needs saying.

Lolz, thanks. I'm trying to keep them humorous and on point! :-)

Cg

  ·  18 days ago Reveal Comment

The thing that I am iffy about are there are no provisions for Anti-Abuse projects like @steemflagrewards. We aren't a business but what we do helps legitimate business on Steem.

We could use a delegation to implement a flag and burn campaign against misuse of promotion services, spam or abuse outside of @steemcleaners scope and this would help the credibility of the entire ecosystem imho.

Hell, would love to go after higher stake spammers. We just need a bit more muscle.

Hopefully, @aggroed, @eonwarped and @starkerz could develop an application process for projects that are not oriented around their own profit.

I would love to keep doing what I do but without @utopian-io or another dev sponsor. Things look pretty bleak atm.

TL;DR: Anti-Abuse projects serving the community should have a distinct application process with minimal or no fee.

This is very well understood and has been talked about at length. it is clear that some project will generate a profit and others will provide a valuable service to the community but won't generate a profit. We are developing an evaluation process that takes both types of project into account.

  ·  18 days ago Reveal Comment
  ·  18 days ago Reveal Comment

The price will certainly be raised as a point of discussion in the meeting tonight

  ·  18 days ago Reveal Comment

I would say so far that you must note that these prices are applicable to delegation renewals only. This does not necessarily apply to new delegation applications. When the process for new delegation applications is issued by us, it is likely that the price will be lower in those cases

  ·  18 days ago Reveal Comment

I'm against the delegation system, it certainly reduces the incentive for both individual investors and projects to invest Steem power. There were quite a few times I actually think about buying Steem and power up, but then if you compared to the 1 million SP they delegated to projects, even if you buy 100k or 200k, it's comparably nothing much, especially under current price...

  ·  19 days ago Reveal Comment

Nowadays most whales voting with their euther pre-mined or invested stake stopped so the biggest voters (except bidding bots) are mainly those project that recieved delegations from steemit inc (´s ninja mined Steem), then i was wondering why we cant just let these project invest sp on their own, or let the investors decide which project they want to invest?

  ·  19 days ago Reveal Comment

I feel even if I invest, say 200k, my vote doesn't worth much compared to the delegated projects. So I doubt if there would be new investors coming, cos new investors are important for Steem.

Ah I see, so you're afraid that new investors won't come behind you, thus making your initial sum worth less?

Okay that makes sense, I get it I think.

Cg

I can answer your question. In last week I was discussing with another steemian about my plan to invest 200 USD. He just told me that if u r investing 200 USD then consider that the worth is 66 percent. I asked why? He replied-- because 33 percent of supply are ninja mining token held by steemit and that can very well be used by others in the for of delegation. Then I finally I dropped the idea of investment in Steem.

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  ·  18 days ago Reveal Comment


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  ·  18 days ago Reveal Comment

my read of the post from the @delegationtrust is that they want to delegate to support projects with a pretty clear viability for the platform. That application fee is a good way of separating the chaff from the wheat.

If your project is that uncertain at this point you are likely way too early to be applying. You'd be better to build interest and support in the community. Small delegations from a group of people also has the advantage of not putting all your eggs in one basket.


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  ·  18 days ago Reveal Comment

that is largely the idea. If your business plan can't cover the cost of doing business is it a plan?

Excellent article, it feels like the common man voice of steem.

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  ·  18 days ago Reveal Comment

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