Bots, they are everywhere, you see?
Not only at Steem.
They are at Bitshares too, trading faster than you could ever do.
No bid bots were used for this post.
The so called trending (landing) page on Steem was one I stayed away from as much as possible. Just like I did with those rubbish reSteem services. Basicly the first is an advertising service and the second a SPAM one. The accounts offering these services profit the most from it. That is why it has been created in the first place.
From my point of view reSteem services are very closely related to Scams. And they can become extremely annoying, they're like unwanted flyers that get dumped in one's mailbox. To me they are an absolute waste of Steem/ SBD {Steem Backed Dollar}. The revenue on bidbot services at least is more worth using it. As I did try myself a while back, it created some bonus SP {Steem Power}.
It is just advertising.
If one wanted to get ones post noticed on Trending this would take between a 100 to 200 SBD investment. Marketing on a Social Media platform, build on a blockchain like Steem, does come at a certain price. There is no Marketing firm that owns Steem, as it is a Community Stake Holder construction. All members registered on the blockchain own a share, as shown in their account.
As it is Free and Open (Sourced) it can be used for a lot of different purposes. Be it commercial, gaining capital by offering services to using it as a platform for freedom of expression and anything in between. There is absolutely no guarantee one's time and efforts do get valued and rewarded. A heavily bidbot advertised post on trending can attract members that hope to get a part of the payout, for instance. Subjective ideas about whether it has to have a certain level of quality are actually unimportant.
Support what you prefer.
Fighting against the so called bidbot services seem like a waste of time and energy to me. Even though they do drain the reward pool for quite a bit. These services own a lot of stake in the Steem system already and therefore get big returns in payouts from the upvoted posts. And of course they get a lot of SBD/ Steem payed for giving part of their voting power as an upvote service. That is something I think is good for Steem members to be aware of. Basicly they help get the bidbot services become legend level accounts. For me that insight was a reason to stop using them.
Now, I can imagine reasons to use them to get noticed and get at least a return gain in SP, above the payed SBD/ Steem. It is all possible on Steem. And even advertising part is understandable though a reason for me to stay away from the trending page most of the time. But to change this around is by offering an alternative, for instance, like the no bitbod innitiative. All that is needed next is some huge support from Legend level members and it could become a game changer.
Withdraw Witness votes
Some of the bidbot services also run a witness node. Now part of showing that you disaprove some of these services is by removing a vote for their witness node. And give a vote to those who run for witness that support no bidbots, for instance. Witness voting and or unvoting can be a way to send out a strong signal.
This is offering an alternative that might be more effective than trying to fight them. Also, I believe in giving people the freedom to choose based on all the information transparantly availble to them. And that I stopped self-upvoting and used bidbots briefly does not mean others have to do the same. After all, a big part of the drive to use Steem is an economical one. To gain enough Steem Power {SP} to make a difference at all is already tough enough.
Counter by offering alternatives.
It is easy to be critical, but it is quite a challenge to offer different solutions or alternatives that work. And I can state that it is quite hard to build up some Steem Power these days from scratch. Bidbot services also can attract advertisers, who just want to market their goods and or services for example. They need to invest in Steem and or Steem Backed Dollar {SBD} for that. Which is actually a good thing for all members that have some Steem at Stake.
And some bidbot services use delegated Steem, paying members part of the payout. So, part of the reward pool also flows back to those who delegated their SP. Still helping to build dominant accounts in thr proces and that might backfire at some point in time. Yet, if one does dislike this I think it is a waste to complain and or rage hard about it on the trending page. Throwing away Steem and or SBD that could be put to good use. By supporting alternative solutions for instance instead. And that could even proven to be profitable too.
Steem on Steemian!
PS Due to the length of this post I will write about Bitshares trading bots in another one...
Not all bots are bad.
Image CC0 licensed courtesy of Comfreak at Pixabay.
Very good point with witness votes to fight voting bots!
There are several ways to make a change. Sending a signal by voting/ unvoting sure is a strong one.
Thanks for the reSteem Andrew!
You are welcome! Anyway, I try a lot to make people change their mentality of using voting bots, but I was pretty unsuccessful by now :)
Well, I can understand those using one for a low amount. To get attention and some better payout, with SP gain. Works better than promote.
The real reward pool drain is caused by those who pump a lot in several bidbot services. That they get to trending is not the challenge. The rewardpool getting drained creating powerfull legend level accounts is a different story, as I see it.
And the best way to convince members to change is by offering them an alternative. At least that is what I think innitiatives like no bidbot can offer.
We'll see how this developes over time. :-)
Although the long article is interesting enough to complete the reading. Thank you very much for enlightening. Regards!
Thanks for taking the time and effort. ☺
Congratulations! Your post has been selected as a daily Steemit truffle! It is listed on rank 12 of all contributions awarded today. You can find the TOP DAILY TRUFFLE PICKS HERE.
I upvoted your contribution because to my mind your post is at least 21 SBD worth and should receive 94 votes. It's now up to the lovely Steemit community to make this come true.
I am
TrufflePig, an Artificial Intelligence Bot that helps minnows and content curators using Machine Learning. If you are curious how I select content, you can find an explanation here!Have a nice day and sincerely yours,
TrufflePigThanks!
Very inspiring! Although it's sometimes difficult not to use a bot to remember a tough vote on the content :) Thanks, glad you shared it!
Thanks, and glad to know you value it.
True, it can help to use a low amount of SBD/ Steem to get noticed and break-even on that. And also build up some SP at the same time.
That is why I do prefer alternatives to counter the pool drain that is caused by the huge players to get on trending.
It is the best way to go I think, to create alternatives. One of those is nobidbot for example.
That is the interesting part of a blockchain system like Steem. How do we deal with challenges and still keep out a central controlling ruler hierarchy system?
It is great to see the dynamics at work.
Thank you my friend for a lovely reply. Success!
My pleasure, thanks!
Witness votes... Good call 👍🏻👍🏻 Looks like I have a bit of homework to do, gee thanks 😜😜
Thanks, still have to do my own witness vote updating too... 😁👍
I used to have a proxy vote and I just changed that, now that I am more familiar with things around Steemit. Finding “good” witnesses it goin to take some investigating to say the least.
True, it is a tough job finding the right witnesses to vote for.
Very good points. We don't need to be fighting against anyone or anything. We can just offer transparency and alternatives to anyone who would be interested. I'm very curious to see where the nobidbot tag and initiative leads. It's going to be harder to make an apples to apples comparison of the bidded up trending page and the one with nobidbot because we'll still see the gross $ amounts. If there were a way for that number to be broken out so we saw what the organic was versus the bid bots, then things start taking off organically, I believe, or at least have a fighting chance.
Thanks.
Maybe rename the trending page to _commercials_could help? Or filter the more than one bidbot use, above 3 SBD out?
Introducing a special tag perhaps, like #bidbot or #advertisement. And the webinterface putting those on a seperate page. Then there can be another web interface maker that will not use those filters.
But I guess bidbot services would dislike those kind of measurements. Yet in magazines, newspapers, websites and so on, it is normally made clear what is payed for content, or advertisement.
It could be a solution to classify these services as such. So posts that really get trending without using bidbots get in the right spot. While bidbot payed for upvote posts get their own field. Or are cleary distinct from the rest.
On the other hand this could be considered a form of censorship/ discrimination. And it would be better to come with alternative solutions to counter this phenomena. So members have a free choice.
It is a tough nut to crack though this one. It could help if these bidbot services would be willing to put a limiter on the amount they accept per member and so on.
That would keep things within proportion. And still a reason to vote for them as a witness.
A lot of possible measurements to make these bidbot services less of a reward pool drain they seem to have become.
And if they refuse to put a limiter on their usage, then other solutions will come, like I mentioned. No rulers does not mean we can not come to mutual agreements.
Still positive about the outcome.
I am, too. I think cooler heads prevail. We're mostly trying to get to the same thing, just with different approaches and maybe some different priorities in mind.
As I said, I like the breakdown idea best, but even something in the post box that said "Ad" or "Promoted" would be nice, or even having the bid bot stuff show up in promoted if they just wanted to go ahead and make bots "official." Anything so that we aren't all looking at it and wondering if its bot-induced or not. It's easy enough to check for the names of the upvoters, but it gets tedious after the fifth or tenth time. Some people have high SP circles voting for them, though, so it would be nice to distinguish them.
Anything other than UI changes will have to be voluntary, and I don't see widespread adoption of anything. We didn't even get that with grumpycat when they muscled in demanding 3.5 day voting compliance. A few bots resisted are still holding out, so I would imagine something like that would emerge in any initiative directed at them.
So, that means the solution resides with those of us who feel the bots are not a long term, or even a meaningful short or medium term solution for individual users or the platform. As we find the ways to get non-bot posts to the forefront, more and more people will move away from the bots, and there supposed need will be diminished. The amount of SBD needed to get people up the trending page should already be acting as a deterrent, but apparently, more is needed.
That will be key, to make alternatives work that make bidbots less actractive to use with loads of SBD pumped in. Then there will be indeed a movement away from bidbots as they become less interesting to use.
Things can change fast. Sometimes outside competition can also put some presure on it. To make a change that will be important to survive for Steem as a platform.
Time will tell.
yes that's really what you are talking about. i like, your way
Glad you appreciate it.
I am sagat agree with your word.
Thanks.
The nobidbot tag is the reason I found this post. Steem on!
Will try to use it more often.
Most of my witness votes are for the witnesses who believe that engagement and interaction is utmost important for the blockchain.
Other witness vote where based on the tools they did create. Have still some witness slots availble but it getting harder to make a choise.
It is important, that you know what the witness thinks about the future of the blockchain! If my ideas match with theirs. They have my vote!
That is exactly the way to use it.
Reminds me to update my Witness votes.