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RE: @haejin is stealing YOUR rewards!!! EXPOSING THE TRUTH!
From steemreports its roughly 70% from 2 users (roughly 35% from himself and roughly 35% from ranchoralexo)
From steemreports its roughly 70% from 2 users (roughly 35% from himself and roughly 35% from ranchoralexo)
So if am understanding correctly, is it just whales supporting and upvoting themselves in order to get back author/curation rewards? I see so many doing it, yet have a hard time breaking it down to see how it effects the whole community! I guess you should share your Steem Power as that is how the community will grow with quality content! Just my .02 cents since I just started to buy more Steem and then Powering it up since I see the growth on the platform! I also took advantage of the SBD/STEEM pricing to get almost 1.6X, I am still learning but man I finally got it! If anyone here suggest anything differnt, please let me know as I am looking to increase potential Steem Power over time, just want to do it the best way. I see all these resteem accounts and whale accounts, but how can going that route be better than just organically growing it? @kryzsec @berniesanders
So to answer your first question, that is kind of what is going on here. How it affects the entire community is that there is a limited amount of Steem in existence and it gets shared through the reward pool using the PoB algorithm. However if all the whales upvoted themselves then the reward pool would be depleted and the value of an upvote (and flag) will become 0, basically.
What's hard for me to wrap my head around is why I wouldn't vote for my own posts. It increases exposure, and rewards myself for participating, which makes me want to participate more. On the other hand, it feels like it's cheating the system, even for a Dolphin? Large Minnow? like myself. I try to balance it for myself morally by upvoting at least one other person for every upvote I give myself. I don't know if that's enough...
Currently, my vote is worth 2 cents, and I can vote 10 times a day for 2 cents. (Which, I love doing - feeling like a high roller at 2 cents! LOL!). But, I only do one post every 3 to 5 days, so, feel it's somewhat fair to upvote myself once out of 30 to 50 votes. But, I do enjoy giving it to others, because of course, 2 cents isn't going to make or break me. But, when I'm staring at a post that I poured my heart into, and it's got 4 cents on it, my finger gets twitchy over the vote button! :).
keep it up.
i know how u feel. but we always have that hope of "oh, maybe it could somehow help to boost the post, a vote is still a vote"
And now it seems my vote has dropped down to 1 cent for some reason! I was so excited when it was worth 2!!! :)
time to pump up the SPs then =)
the more you invest, the more returns you get
And now I know I'm a .01cent pleb...feelsbadman
A
Steemit should have a max 5 posts a day limit. That would cut him of 50%.
I love this idea because some people create posts that are complete crap just to vote themselves more rewards.
Maybe we should not limit the persons number of posts, but limit how many posts they are allowed to get any rewards for... like after the first post, the rewards would be reduced by 75% and the post after that the reward would be reduced by 90% until if they posted say more than 4 times in a day, only the first or maybe second post would be worth posting simply for the monetary value.
good idea i think
I suggest 2 and when steemit crossed 2M members then 1 daily to avoid flooding
The idea is to invest and buy steem. I m new and waiting for my steem to transfer but I think the idea is the whales are whales because they invest in the Steem and platform.
That kinda sounds like censorship. If one makes 5 posts and makes another great one but has to wait...
Then if this happens quite often there would be posts that could never happen because of an arbitrary number.
Just playing devils advocate
Any attempt at limiting like that would just mean he would need extra accounts so it would have no real effect.
Good call man. Problem solved.
Then he would make 10 more accounts.
so true, especially when you see the bigger fishes playing the game with their own rules
Chuckles*
Sharing some love. It's not much, but it's something =)
So here are the stats for your outgoing and incoming votes (by weight) over the past 100 days and mine. Personally someone up voting themselves with a few $1 (or less) votes (while abusive to many) is slightly abusive in nature but nowhere near as bad as the bigger guys doing it. Remember by weight means that if you upvote yourself 20x at 100% and someone else upvotes you 40x at 50% then they have given you between 49.897215469% of your votes by weight and you have given yourself 50.10278453% of your votes. You decide what you make of the numbers these provide though. I would prefer a few thousand minnows upvoting themselves, and distributing the rewards over a large population, over a single user getting that reward... personally
Your voting over the past 100 days
Mine over 100 days.
Breakdown of your income over 100 days
Breakdown of my income
Btw, the calculation for finding the amount of voting done by weight is a little more complex then what I did (rough approximation) and is supposed to take into account the SP of the voters as well, I didn't in my hypothetical situation.
Thanks for the breakdown. I just don't know what to make of this ethically. On one hand I do want to contribute and add value to people, on the other hand it seems profitable to always upvote yourself while at the same time upvoting others. It's something I'm having trouble wrapping my head around economically and ethically. In an ideal world all of my upvotes would be from other people, but it's like I have this "free" money here since I spent my hard-earned money to buy steem, so it would feel wasteful not to at least allocate part of it to myself if I feel that I am contributing in some meaningful way to the conversation.
Well if it helps you out, if you reward others then it is likely that they will be more likely to trade it around or get more people to buy into it this increasing the value where if you just reward yourself and nobody else then it is less likely to increase your value in the long run. Basically it becomes a quick buck and thats it. So how you come to a decision on what it morally right or wrong, up to you... but at least what you are doing isn't decreasing the value of the reward pool in amounts that are actually noticeable to other people.
Well if nothing else your resources gave me a chance to objectively look at the proportions, which gives me a more accurate idea of how I feel about it. (When I just do 1 upvote for someone else with content I appreciate and 1 for myself when I contribute meaningfully, it feels pretty fair, but seeing the numbers in a pie chart... it feels a lot different). Thanks for helping me clarify my feelings on the matter.
Glad there are people as generous as you in this situation! No worries.
I don't think it's bad to self vote. You can only do it once per post anyways. I agree that by balancing it out with rewarding others for decent comments or posts, you remain true to the goal of the platform.
Maybe if you're a huge whale with a crazy amount of power and you're only posting to upvote yourself, then that's not really fair. But there's nothing preventing that. In the end, the majority of us are here because of some kind of financial incentive. Otherwise, there are platforms like Medium, which boasts 30,000,000 readers and features regularly curated content that features on their homepage.
Plus, I feel that it's a waste for me to remain at 100% voting power. Unfortunately, i don't always have the time to find great content, read and upvote, and that's because I have a demanding job.
There are a lot of empty posts on Steemit too like "this is a flower, please like and follow me. Follow for Follow". I'm tired of that.
I realized that I made a mistake by immediately following back anybody that followed me or engaged on my posts, because I ended up with all that crappy content in my feed. I'm working on cleaning up my following list and reducing it to only those that I feel are actually worth following! Otherwise, it's hard to find good content when you land on the home page!
Content is King! And if you invest the time to write great articles then you should reward yourself with a little upvote too. Because you deserve that!
And without a decent following or an investment in upvote bots, it becomes difficult to gain visibility on your posts, and it just gets lost in the noise.
For great content I invite you to look at @ecotrain, a nice mix.
I understand your difficulties with finding great content, if the ecotrain authors sometimes don´t put out the usual number of articles in a day, for whatever reason, busy with other stuff I guess, I also don´t really know where to check and what to read and what to upvote.
Well said soul.
If you want music to listen too whilst you clean your page,
I'm your man :). Original curator.
The Mute button is your friend.
Yes, specially if you write in a minority language it is hard to get noticed.
There is nothing wrong with voting for your own posts, it's well within your rights to do so, however there comes a point when it becomes blatant abuse. For example, you are allowed by the system of steemit to upvote your comments as well, but if you were to say, spam hundreds of one word comments on old and irrelevant posts and then 100% upvote them yourself that would be seen as abuse, since you are not contributing anything to the system, only taking from it. Haejin's posts are seen as abuse because of the sheer amount of them. He could EASILY combine them all into three or maybe even four posts per day, but he posts like ELEVEN per day. The reason he does this is because he can maximise rewards that way, and take more of the community reward pool for himself. He also doesn't do anything to engage with the community here, just take from it. Anyhow, the main point is: Voting for your own post is totally ok, abusing the system by posting a ton of low value and then upvoting it yourself is not ok.
Yeah! The whole upvote of your own post seems so narcissistic. But hey! -I do it! Nobody else is doing it! HA! :P
^Reference: Black Mirror season 3 episode "Nosedive". An appropriate metaphor.
So I'm new here guys, how do i get a whale, shark, or large minnow to upvote me? I promise not to type in all caps or even use title formats when im posting or replying (at least most of the time but old habits die hard). I also promise not to complain or try to load my bandwagon with people whom your lofty contribution effects blatantly or indirectly. as far as i'm concerned :
And To Whomever This Applies:whalealert.gif
Well, those of us who are trying to grow our accounts have a big incentive to engage by commenting, voting, following, etc. It's hardly torture -- I mean, most of us are happy to vote and reply if another user visits our posts. At the same time, it's obviously self interest because we want to grow our networks.
Still, I guess it's easy enough to understand why people who already have a large stake don't have to work that hard. Also, the sketchier the information that you provide, the less you would probably want to say about it.
Still, many of the whales do take an active interest in growing their following and helping out small fish -- which is really cool. I'm just sort of amazed that the whales in question are still so brazen and shameless after getting called out so many times.
yes but for whales it is also self interest that they choose to upvote minnows. See right now steem is somewhere between $4-$6. If we bring in new people (and they stay and buy steem and power up) this creates demand for steem, which will take the price of steem to (eventually) $100. So, if you have 100,000 steem and you encourage new people to join and help steem hit $100, you just made $99,400,000. If you post dailt and just take from the reward pool, (haejin makes approx $4,000,000 per yr) it will take him 24 yrs to earn that. where as, steem can hit $100 in under 2 years...
So it's more profitable to actually be nice. and not rape the reward pool
Totally agree! Be nice here, be nice in the real world and help anybody you can without asking for anything in return. The life has its own ways to thank you for your kindness. Keep up the good work Dear Steamians! May the power be with you!
That's a really good point that I hadn't considered in the whole incentives structure debate. The question is how does that balance with my obvious self-interest to up-vote myself when I respond to your post? Shouldn't I be able to reward myself if I own enough Steem? It's a really weird dilemma to try to work through.
you can reward yourself. Everyone can. In a previous hard fork there self upvotes weren't allowed by the steem blockchain. But there is an easy work around... create a new account and upvote that one instead, same shit...
My arguement isn't meant to stop people from upvoting themselves, feel free to do it, if you bought steem you've invested and self upvoting is a way to recoup money on your investment. I'm just saying you will make a shit tonne more money if you upvote other people instead.
A rising tide lifts all ships. We are all on the same ocean, so you can either use your upvote try build a dam and lift your own boat, or contribute to steem, play the game give everything away and watch your invest grow....
Now here's the fun part. The example you quoted, was with steem at $100... that's easy, year or two steem will be at $100 (provided enough new people keep coming in and qualtiy content also increases). Now think about 5 years from now. steem at $1,000... suddenly, that $10,000,000 in steem (100,000 SP) is worth $100,000,000... All because you weren't selfish. because there are 100 million steemit users, because SMTs are here...
and your 4,293.181 is worth $4,293,181 that is why you shouldn't be selfish...
That is true, but try to explain that to haejin or his followers
I feel like people just dont give a damn about it. For some reasons they just prefer to stick to their old habits and not browse through the steemit to look for the steemians that touch the similiar topics as @haejin. Who knows, maybe certain people do it two times better but they get pennies, because they are not so well known.
Anyway I think it should get clear and obvious for all of us that someone is standing behind @haejin to upvote and uprank his posts, just take a look at the reward: almost everywhere they are equal to 300 $. I would love to see this madness being stopped.
Ranchoralexo is standing behind and supporting haejin
Yes, it seems so.
I have the feeling they're one and the same. I also saw that Haejin only ever delegated (100! lol) SP to another user. This user is now copying most of his posts into Korean and posting them as well...If that's not fishy, then I don't know.
Ranchoralexo and haejin are different people.
Great point! It is smart to hold Steem for the long-haul. It has some serious potential. I am powering down a little now, as I need some extra cash to help finance my house move, but then I'm keeping the rest in the platform.
And I am looking at a long term plan to build up Steem by posting quality content!
I understand, if you need to power down then so be it. but if yo udo get a chance, buy more steem when you can. It will be worth it.
This make sense. I am new and hardly understand steem language. But this is the most logical comment I ever encounter in my few days here.
would you mind checking your math again please, I think you´re off by factor ten
100,000 add 00 on the end, becomes 100,000,00 move comma to the left by 1 digit 10,000,000 looks good to me
100,000 add two zeros to multiply by 100 = 100,000,00. Move comma left to put it in the right position = 10,000,000.
How are you calculating it?
I´m still one of those old-fashioned guys who calculate in their head and to whom it appears to be a miracle if you have 100,000 Steem at 6 US$/Steem which turns into 10,000,000 US$ when Steem is at 100 US$ and then "you just made $ 99,400,000."
But who knows in this wonderful world of crypto and technology, of which I understand very little, anything seems possible.
Also, under the Steemit logo it reads "beta". So, we know it will get better. And hopefully loops holes will be taken out so all users can have a equal chance at succeeding.
But, it's good to call people out who are abusing the system and think only of themselves.
Basically, all posts share a pool of x amount of steem power & SBD, split across all the users being upvoted at that time, so when someone takes 70%, that only leaves 30% for the rest of the community to share between us, and that is how it affects us, I think!
not actual
yup, that's it. But no one can take 70%...
We have a limited reward pool that's created everyday and distributed according to votes.
Kind of, it is a little more complex then that but for a very basic explanation, yes.
I'm with ya, brother.
完全不明白你们的意思
Friend, the epicenter of the problem is that the steem community is made to make money; The basic principles of sharing, giving opinions, having a good time like any other social network has become a juicy business. That's why, now in steem there are the famous mafias or whales as you well define them ...
I am really so god damn glad that someone finally used his brain and moved on this problem because it should be fucking fixed!
Steemit is made for the community, it wasnt designed for the minority to take the rewards for them alone but for all the peoplw that wish to give some insight, publish their work or even just discuss on common things!
I never got dissapointed on @berniesanders, i remember him being almost at the top on steem but things changed nowadays. Even tho, he is just same as he was: a simply great guy that cares and supports the whole website along with the community, after all someone needs to guard the quality here, am i right?
Many use their brains on this problem, its just many do not know how voting works so they do not see a problem.
You upvote stuff you like? Isn't that how it works?
smh... the technical ways it works, mathematically. Where the value of an upvote comes from and shit... nvm
I agree. At the start i was thinking he had a lot of people voting for him because he made good content... now i see its basically a farm...
:) Are you absolutely sure about that?
Haha, first thing I thought when reading your comment was "I thought it was implied with steem being power based"... Since steem is democratic, can't we vote to kick haejin and fam? until they can figure out how their blockchain never considered the biggest threat which is human nature itself.
Didn’t you just join?
Nope, I didn't just "join".
Im into steemit since the half of 2016, however I have lost my old account because I installed a new system on the disk where I had the password... I hope i'll recover it tho!
Anyway, greed,jelous and abuse were present on steemit.com since the very beginning, thats why we are obligated to fight the people that corrupt our community: that is my point of view.
I dont like when people use steemit only because it might provide some profits, it is a great tool for a publishers or bloggers that do not even expect profits: still, we have thousands of people that are making posts only because they hope that one day, a guy with the high account value with give them an upvote...
Gotta stand up for the bro-nies!
come follow and vote on @cakalakkabumbum for followback and boom vote
Yea... I have noticed it even as a newbie. It's not just fair. My highest so far is just $1.07. @lorddanzi
i've got $2.006 from 24 persons,, im a month old or maybe two and thats my very first time to gain that amount
Well I gave you some more rewards,
could you give me one too? Thanks. ha ha.
lol
wow such generosity
i agree with you bro....
Ive literally just joined and I'm so thankful I've come across this, is his steem pwr so high that his rewards to himself are that great? Thus just pumping more of his rewards into pwr to upvote himself? I'm still new to it all.
Yeah, thats about it too
What's the resteem counter number at?? haha
money rules the world!
Sad, but true. I mean, why are most of us here?
Because Steemit is cool and awesome? Someone brought me here. I didn't join because of monetary incentive. Although it does feel good to get paid, even if it's just a penny
yea, it feels good to get paid
So, not #Sol then? giggles
yeah! the more you have the more powerful you are
Are there greedy people in steemit?
they are everywhere.
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