I am almost sure that this was not the intent of the changes and having said that changes will need to be deployed after a while. Steemit released a statement before the Hard fork that the witnesses could have an alternative to revert to the prior system as well. I see some of the benefits as spamming will be leas likely and it will ultimately lead to better scaling but agree with your assessment that it will be at the cost of smaller accounts who should have the ability to transact more to grow quicker. I am hoping that these RC costs scale down to the size of the SP because the new and small accounts are the future to this platforms success and if we are creating an ecosystem with various methods of engagement, we should also provide the bandwidth to do so.
I'm asking the witnesses each time they post on the HF what is intended with this. This is the one thing I haven't been able to get any of them to answer on. They'll answer every other question I ask, but so far are skipping this one on what is intended for these numbers and how we know when the "calibration" is done. This really is a defining question for the future of this blockchain IMHO.
These numbers are not fixed and so may not be representative of what is typical.
The latest patch is supposed to raise everyone's RC by a factor of 10.
My understanding (and I may be wrong) is that the cost of a transaction depends on a number of constantly changing things (including how busy the network is...in other words I THOUGHT it was supposed to be "cheaper" to transact at non-peak times for instance).
Yes, I saw last night that they intend to do a patch tonight, so tomorrow there will be a 10x temporarily applied.
Note that this is for the overall pool, not user by user, at least according to smooth. So we don't know how much increase a given user will see. This may also wind up distorted toward the top end, so a witness gets 20x and a plankton gets 5x. We'll see tomorrow.
But this is continuing to be adjusted. They say this is not a consensus decision, meaning they can keep changing the RC calculation algo without having to consult with the witnesses. So our continuing to provide them with input on what we think of how they're doing with this will be critical.
Also, in testing yesterday I posted 2 comments. a longer comment cost me 24Billion RC, and a shorter one cost me 19Billion. so, while steemd's vote estimate is close, the length of your comment will also significantly affect how many comments you can post. Get ready for 'tweet' style comments as opposed to actual engagement (this comment is probably going to destroy my RC)
You're actually missing a division by five there. Not in the direction that makes it better. A 15 SP account has two comments per five days, if it doesn't bother using that RC to vote or anything.
looks like it ..I have been waiting and doing nothing for days now and saying hi to you guys will likely set me back another day lol at my lvl it looks bad ... just got to the point I could toss a few cents in a vote... oh well guess I will sit on the side lines and wait for things to change ...(FOR THE BETTER I HOPE)
@Steemitblog put out a post that I just resteemed that says they are increasing the RC pool by 10x tonight. So by tomorrow morning you should be able to do more. Maybe not 10x more, because smooth says it isn't per user but rather per the entire pool. So we'll have to see how much of that goes to plankton.
I’m still on the case with this. I want to know what’s intended here and what happens if it turns out reasonable participation requires more SP than the current newbie delegation.
@indigoocean Great Post! I have to say, as a business owner, none of this makes any sense. Oh, and where are the “communities” and “SMT” tokens? Anyway, let’s hope this place doesn’t end up being MySpace.
SMTs and communities are a part of HF21. This HF was needed to make that one possible, because SMTs can only work with a method like RCs calculating how much usage costs the platform. The SMTs are probably going to be regulated by these RCs, making sure they are paying for the amount of resources they are actually using.
I share your concern that this may wind up being the beginning of the end for this wonderful blockchain. If they make it so that new users simply cannot succeed on here, the platform dies a justified death. Let's hope they make this new RC system support newbies.
Are you kidding me? New accounts get borrowed money. How does this not make any sense as a business owner? Would you hand out a few dollars to a hundred thousand people just to see how it pays out? That is not a good business strategy, specially when it can be abused.
@felipejoys
Let me clarify. If I make big changes to my business, my customers are clearly notified, way in advance. No secrets, no surprises. So, if you own a business, what would your customers reaction be if you said, "We won't be able to transact with you for a week. Please come back then, and all will be well." :-) Will those customers go somewhere else? Now as far as abuse of the system, I'm with you on that. BUT, the way this has been approached, well let's just say communication around here is "Less Than Stellar." Don't get me wrong, I love steemit, but, I'm no cheerleader. I remember Myspace :-)
Indeed, one has to wonder about the intentions behind the new set-up.
I would be pleased to see fewer short, pointless, spammy comments (and posts of the same nature). At the same time, if this new system prevents people from making short but significant, relevant, and interesting posts and comments, then the Steemit platform will suffer some undesirable results.
Like, maybe, the death of the platform. Or at least a drop-off in the growth numbers. Granted, as a crypto-generating blog platform, Steemit has definite attractions, but if it erects obstacles to the blogging and to the ability to generate Steem, why would any newbies bother joining Steemit?
Let's hope the powers-that-be have taken that into account. And that they take that into account as this forking nonsense evolves or devolves.
@indigoocean THAT is very cool of you!! Do not upvote my comment, give it to someone who could really use it. For that, I will now put you on my list of accounts I refer to on my posts. Good luck to you!! :-)
Congratulations! Your post has been selected as a daily Steemit truffle! It is listed on rank 11 of all contributions awarded today. You can find the TOP DAILY TRUFFLE PICKS HERE.
I upvoted your contribution because to my mind your post is at least 4 SBD worth and should receive 158 votes. It's now up to the lovely Steemit community to make this come true.
I am TrufflePig, an Artificial Intelligence Bot that helps minnows and content curators using Machine Learning. If you are curious how I select content, you can find an explanation here!
I am almost sure that this was not the intent of the changes and having said that changes will need to be deployed after a while. Steemit released a statement before the Hard fork that the witnesses could have an alternative to revert to the prior system as well. I see some of the benefits as spamming will be leas likely and it will ultimately lead to better scaling but agree with your assessment that it will be at the cost of smaller accounts who should have the ability to transact more to grow quicker. I am hoping that these RC costs scale down to the size of the SP because the new and small accounts are the future to this platforms success and if we are creating an ecosystem with various methods of engagement, we should also provide the bandwidth to do so.
I'm asking the witnesses each time they post on the HF what is intended with this. This is the one thing I haven't been able to get any of them to answer on. They'll answer every other question I ask, but so far are skipping this one on what is intended for these numbers and how we know when the "calibration" is done. This really is a defining question for the future of this blockchain IMHO.
Two points:
These numbers are not fixed and so may not be representative of what is typical.
The latest patch is supposed to raise everyone's RC by a factor of 10.
My understanding (and I may be wrong) is that the cost of a transaction depends on a number of constantly changing things (including how busy the network is...in other words I THOUGHT it was supposed to be "cheaper" to transact at non-peak times for instance).
Yes, I saw last night that they intend to do a patch tonight, so tomorrow there will be a 10x temporarily applied.
Note that this is for the overall pool, not user by user, at least according to smooth. So we don't know how much increase a given user will see. This may also wind up distorted toward the top end, so a witness gets 20x and a plankton gets 5x. We'll see tomorrow.
But this is continuing to be adjusted. They say this is not a consensus decision, meaning they can keep changing the RC calculation algo without having to consult with the witnesses. So our continuing to provide them with input on what we think of how they're doing with this will be critical.
you numbers are confirmed by steemd. here is a brand new (3 days old) account:
https://steemd.com/@jimmyjamjar10101
Also, in testing yesterday I posted 2 comments. a longer comment cost me 24Billion RC, and a shorter one cost me 19Billion. so, while steemd's vote estimate is close, the length of your comment will also significantly affect how many comments you can post. Get ready for 'tweet' style comments as opposed to actual engagement (this comment is probably going to destroy my RC)
Wow.
You're actually missing a division by five there. Not in the direction that makes it better. A 15 SP account has two comments per five days, if it doesn't bother using that RC to vote or anything.
Whoa! You mean it now takes 5 days to restore power, not 24 hours?
looks like it ..I have been waiting and doing nothing for days now and saying hi to you guys will likely set me back another day lol at my lvl it looks bad ... just got to the point I could toss a few cents in a vote... oh well guess I will sit on the side lines and wait for things to change ...(FOR THE BETTER I HOPE)
@Steemitblog put out a post that I just resteemed that says they are increasing the RC pool by 10x tonight. So by tomorrow morning you should be able to do more. Maybe not 10x more, because smooth says it isn't per user but rather per the entire pool. So we'll have to see how much of that goes to plankton.
Cool thanks for the update and ...well here's a penny for your thought lol
How is a new account suppose to grow then? This is total bullshit
hehe i was too late :P i replied to the comment stating some numbers but you already did a post :P
I’m still on the case with this. I want to know what’s intended here and what happens if it turns out reasonable participation requires more SP than the current newbie delegation.
Posted using Partiko iOS
@indigoocean Great Post! I have to say, as a business owner, none of this makes any sense. Oh, and where are the “communities” and “SMT” tokens? Anyway, let’s hope this place doesn’t end up being MySpace.
Posted using Partiko iOS
SMTs and communities are a part of HF21. This HF was needed to make that one possible, because SMTs can only work with a method like RCs calculating how much usage costs the platform. The SMTs are probably going to be regulated by these RCs, making sure they are paying for the amount of resources they are actually using.
I share your concern that this may wind up being the beginning of the end for this wonderful blockchain. If they make it so that new users simply cannot succeed on here, the platform dies a justified death. Let's hope they make this new RC system support newbies.
Are you kidding me? New accounts get borrowed money. How does this not make any sense as a business owner? Would you hand out a few dollars to a hundred thousand people just to see how it pays out? That is not a good business strategy, specially when it can be abused.
@felipejoys
Let me clarify. If I make big changes to my business, my customers are clearly notified, way in advance. No secrets, no surprises. So, if you own a business, what would your customers reaction be if you said, "We won't be able to transact with you for a week. Please come back then, and all will be well." :-) Will those customers go somewhere else? Now as far as abuse of the system, I'm with you on that. BUT, the way this has been approached, well let's just say communication around here is "Less Than Stellar." Don't get me wrong, I love steemit, but, I'm no cheerleader. I remember Myspace :-)
If there is no better place to do what they want to do and they really enjoy it, then they'll come back.
This is a test product. As a customer, don't you look stuff up before you buy it?
@filepejoys
WEKU Social X APPIX LIT etc.
Much success to you bro. Gotta go, I have a business to run.
You missed the point entirely. Good luck with your business.
from my understanding that will level out. the blockchain is trying to balance and get the ‘costs’ down.
so i think those numbers will improve greatly in the coming days where new steemians will be able to engage much more than they do right now.
but that’s just my understanding and i’ve never claimed to be very smart lol
(i owe you an upvote too...just waiting to recharge my voting power....errrr voting mana)
Posted using Partiko iOS
I really hope so! These numbers just won't do.
And yeah, I've been waiting for my VP to recharge before doing any upvoting too. Thankfully we have enough SP to at least comment as we please.
Indeed, one has to wonder about the intentions behind the new set-up.
I would be pleased to see fewer short, pointless, spammy comments (and posts of the same nature). At the same time, if this new system prevents people from making short but significant, relevant, and interesting posts and comments, then the Steemit platform will suffer some undesirable results.
Like, maybe, the death of the platform. Or at least a drop-off in the growth numbers. Granted, as a crypto-generating blog platform, Steemit has definite attractions, but if it erects obstacles to the blogging and to the ability to generate Steem, why would any newbies bother joining Steemit?
Let's hope the powers-that-be have taken that into account. And that they take that into account as this forking nonsense evolves or devolves.
Very true. I'm starting to think that they don't care about users falling off if they aren't users who buy STEEM.
Let's all keep an open mind and see what happens. I'm guardedly optimistic ...
Btw, everyone, I'll be upvoting your comments in a few days, once my VP/mana is back up to 80%.
@indigoocean THAT is very cool of you!! Do not upvote my comment, give it to someone who could really use it. For that, I will now put you on my list of accounts I refer to on my posts. Good luck to you!! :-)
Already upvoted your initial comment. I always upvote my commentators though. Just had stopped a couple days while my VP/mana was in the can.
Congratulations! Your post has been selected as a daily Steemit truffle! It is listed on rank 11 of all contributions awarded today. You can find the TOP DAILY TRUFFLE PICKS HERE.
I upvoted your contribution because to my mind your post is at least 4 SBD worth and should receive 158 votes. It's now up to the lovely Steemit community to make this come true.
I am
TrufflePig, an Artificial Intelligence Bot that helps minnows and content curators using Machine Learning. If you are curious how I select content, you can find an explanation here!Have a nice day and sincerely yours,
TrufflePig