The Problem with the HF is What's Intended, Not the Missteps

in steem •  20 days ago

I've been doing the math on the way RCs will affect plankton and new users. It's not pretty folks.

Now I'm not even going to bother with addressing the question of how the fork was done and the snafus along the way causing people to temporarily not be able to make full use of the platform. I'm only going to focus on what it looks to be the intended way the system will work for everyone after the transition's kinks get worked out by next week.

If you're a plankton or anyone with the default 15 SP still (which could be someone on here a few months, since your 15 SP free delegation gets taken back as you earn your own SP), hold on to your hat.

Using Steemd to See What You Can Do


Looking at someone with 117 SP on steemd I can see the following:

Enough credits for approximately:
0 comments (16 after recharge)
1 votes (79 after recharge)
1 transfers/powerups (87 after recharge)


If you do the math, that means someone with 15 SP gets about 2 comments per day!

I presume that includes posts, so one post and one comment per day.

They also get about 10 upvotes they can give. Planktons, you might as well skip using the slider on Busy or SteemPlus and just give 100% upvotes every time, because even if you have VP left, you won't have enough RCs to vote more than 10 times before your VP recharges anyway.

You can look and see exactly what you can personally do by going to that Steemd url I gave you above and then adding your username (with the @) at the end, no spaces.

What This Means


Well I'm hoping it means stuff is still off and the calculation of what you can do with a given amount of RCs (based on SP, so really with a given amount of STEEM), is also still off. I hope it really was not the intention with this hardfork to take the legs out from under any plankton who can't buy STEEM.

Is the site now meant only for people who can afford to buy STEEM?

When I'm training people to get started on here , I always tell them to comment lots and wait to start posting regularly until they've attracted enough followers by commenting. But at 2 comments per day, of course anyone will get discouraged before they've build any sort of following.

I had left about 3,000 comments by the time I reached 100 posts created. That means that if I was posting once a day, I was commenting 30 times per day. The "secret to my success" was only possible because I could comment so much, left good comments, and so built a following of active people on here pretty quickly.

I had people reading my posts and commenting on them within my first couple months, and this was the encouragement I needed to keep going long before I had the money to buy STEEM.

I see no reason why everyone shouldn't be able to have the experience I have if they can put in the time and effort I did, and have the ability to write good comments and create good posts. But this new system clearly doesn't agree.

Clearly the priority now is people who can buy STEEM.

Can't afford anything other than the free delegation? Then hang around if you must, be really you aren't wanted here. Not according to we fellow Steemians, but according to those who make the rules.

This truly saddens me.


What will become of this wonderful place when so many new users, and even newish users already here, all leave in frustration because they just can't interact with the blockchain?

This has now effectively become a pay-to-play system.

My only hope is that the numbers I'm seeing on Steemd today are just more inaccuracy caused by the unexpected consequences of the fork. Next week we will see that at default 15 SP you can comment 10 times per day and upvote 20 times per day (making voting sliders for plankton reasonable still).

What do you hope to see next week?

What do you worry you will see?

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I am almost sure that this was not the intent of the changes and having said that changes will need to be deployed after a while. Steemit released a statement before the Hard fork that the witnesses could have an alternative to revert to the prior system as well. I see some of the benefits as spamming will be leas likely and it will ultimately lead to better scaling but agree with your assessment that it will be at the cost of smaller accounts who should have the ability to transact more to grow quicker. I am hoping that these RC costs scale down to the size of the SP because the new and small accounts are the future to this platforms success and if we are creating an ecosystem with various methods of engagement, we should also provide the bandwidth to do so.

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I'm asking the witnesses each time they post on the HF what is intended with this. This is the one thing I haven't been able to get any of them to answer on. They'll answer every other question I ask, but so far are skipping this one on what is intended for these numbers and how we know when the "calibration" is done. This really is a defining question for the future of this blockchain IMHO.

Two points:

  1. These numbers are not fixed and so may not be representative of what is typical.

  2. The latest patch is supposed to raise everyone's RC by a factor of 10.

My understanding (and I may be wrong) is that the cost of a transaction depends on a number of constantly changing things (including how busy the network is...in other words I THOUGHT it was supposed to be "cheaper" to transact at non-peak times for instance).

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Yes, I saw last night that they intend to do a patch tonight, so tomorrow there will be a 10x temporarily applied.

Note that this is for the overall pool, not user by user, at least according to smooth. So we don't know how much increase a given user will see. This may also wind up distorted toward the top end, so a witness gets 20x and a plankton gets 5x. We'll see tomorrow.

But this is continuing to be adjusted. They say this is not a consensus decision, meaning they can keep changing the RC calculation algo without having to consult with the witnesses. So our continuing to provide them with input on what we think of how they're doing with this will be critical.

you numbers are confirmed by steemd. here is a brand new (3 days old) account:
https://steemd.com/@jimmyjamjar10101

Also, in testing yesterday I posted 2 comments. a longer comment cost me 24Billion RC, and a shorter one cost me 19Billion. so, while steemd's vote estimate is close, the length of your comment will also significantly affect how many comments you can post. Get ready for 'tweet' style comments as opposed to actual engagement (this comment is probably going to destroy my RC)

hehe i was too late :P i replied to the comment stating some numbers but you already did a post :P

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I’m still on the case with this. I want to know what’s intended here and what happens if it turns out reasonable participation requires more SP than the current newbie delegation.

Posted using Partiko iOS

You're actually missing a division by five there. Not in the direction that makes it better. A 15 SP account has two comments per five days, if it doesn't bother using that RC to vote or anything.

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Whoa! You mean it now takes 5 days to restore power, not 24 hours?

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looks like it ..I have been waiting and doing nothing for days now and saying hi to you guys will likely set me back another day lol at my lvl it looks bad ... just got to the point I could toss a few cents in a vote... oh well guess I will sit on the side lines and wait for things to change ...(FOR THE BETTER I HOPE)

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@Steemitblog put out a post that I just resteemed that says they are increasing the RC pool by 10x tonight. So by tomorrow morning you should be able to do more. Maybe not 10x more, because smooth says it isn't per user but rather per the entire pool. So we'll have to see how much of that goes to plankton.

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Cool thanks for the update and ...well here's a penny for your thought lol

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How is a new account suppose to grow then? This is total bullshit

@indigoocean Great Post! I have to say, as a business owner, none of this makes any sense. Oh, and where are the “communities” and “SMT” tokens? Anyway, let’s hope this place doesn’t end up being MySpace.

Posted using Partiko iOS

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Are you kidding me? New accounts get borrowed money. How does this not make any sense as a business owner? Would you hand out a few dollars to a hundred thousand people just to see how it pays out? That is not a good business strategy, specially when it can be abused.

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@felipejoys
Let me clarify. If I make big changes to my business, my customers are clearly notified, way in advance. No secrets, no surprises. So, if you own a business, what would your customers reaction be if you said, "We won't be able to transact with you for a week. Please come back then, and all will be well." :-) Will those customers go somewhere else? Now as far as abuse of the system, I'm with you on that. BUT, the way this has been approached, well let's just say communication around here is "Less Than Stellar." Don't get me wrong, I love steemit, but, I'm no cheerleader. I remember Myspace :-)

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Will those customers go somewhere else?

If there is no better place to do what they want to do and they really enjoy it, then they'll come back.

communication

This is a test product. As a customer, don't you look stuff up before you buy it?

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@filepejoys

  1. IF ( myself, and I would venture to say most people who own businesses can not build it on IF there is no better place. I would much rather dominate)
  2. True, you are right, and that is my point.
    WEKU Social X APPIX LIT etc.
    Much success to you bro. Gotta go, I have a business to run.
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You missed the point entirely. Good luck with your business.

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SMTs and communities are a part of HF21. This HF was needed to make that one possible, because SMTs can only work with a method like RCs calculating how much usage costs the platform. The SMTs are probably going to be regulated by these RCs, making sure they are paying for the amount of resources they are actually using.

I share your concern that this may wind up being the beginning of the end for this wonderful blockchain. If they make it so that new users simply cannot succeed on here, the platform dies a justified death. Let's hope they make this new RC system support newbies.

from my understanding that will level out. the blockchain is trying to balance and get the ‘costs’ down.

so i think those numbers will improve greatly in the coming days where new steemians will be able to engage much more than they do right now.

but that’s just my understanding and i’ve never claimed to be very smart lol

(i owe you an upvote too...just waiting to recharge my voting power....errrr voting mana)

Posted using Partiko iOS

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I really hope so! These numbers just won't do.

And yeah, I've been waiting for my VP to recharge before doing any upvoting too. Thankfully we have enough SP to at least comment as we please.

Indeed, one has to wonder about the intentions behind the new set-up.

I would be pleased to see fewer short, pointless, spammy comments (and posts of the same nature). At the same time, if this new system prevents people from making short but significant, relevant, and interesting posts and comments, then the Steemit platform will suffer some undesirable results.

Like, maybe, the death of the platform. Or at least a drop-off in the growth numbers. Granted, as a crypto-generating blog platform, Steemit has definite attractions, but if it erects obstacles to the blogging and to the ability to generate Steem, why would any newbies bother joining Steemit?

Let's hope the powers-that-be have taken that into account. And that they take that into account as this forking nonsense evolves or devolves.

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Very true. I'm starting to think that they don't care about users falling off if they aren't users who buy STEEM.

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Let's all keep an open mind and see what happens. I'm guardedly optimistic ...

Btw, everyone, I'll be upvoting your comments in a few days, once my VP/mana is back up to 80%.

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@indigoocean THAT is very cool of you!! Do not upvote my comment, give it to someone who could really use it. For that, I will now put you on my list of accounts I refer to on my posts. Good luck to you!! :-)

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Already upvoted your initial comment. I always upvote my commentators though. Just had stopped a couple days while my VP/mana was in the can.

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So this is the wodnerful hardfork 20 weve been hearing about lol. Steemit is dead

Posted using Partiko Android