Steem.Supply Update: Rewards Algorithm Rewrite, Major Cleanup, Version Bump

in steem •  last year

Following my recent efforts to understand how the rewards allocation works out in Steemit, I think I came to a conclusion, so I updated the rewards calculation algorithm in steem.supply.

On a side note, steem.supply has been on an unusually high load during the last few days (which led me to the cleanup I will talk about later) and also some of the content nodes that I'm relying upon are experiencing very high loads. So please try again later if the page doesn't work for you right now. My content node is still under making.

How The Rewards Are (Actually) Calculated In Steemit:

First of all, thanks to @geekorner and @penguinpablo who helped me during my other post.

Now, let's see how this actually works.

The main confusion point is the "$" displayed by default near the rewards by Steemit (and busy, and eSteem). This "$" is not a USD. It has nothing to do with it. It's also not a SBD. So, what is it? It's what I'l call from now on a "Steem Token Unit", or STU. This is different from SBD and STEEM as currencies, and it's actually the expression of the underlying value storage in the STEEM blockchain, which goes under the name vests.

So, the potential reward you see near your posts is actually expressed in STU.

Example: you see near your post $100. In order to understand how much you will get, we will talk form now on in STU whenever we refer to the numbers the Steemit UI is showing. So you actually see near your post 100 STU.

Out of this, you give away 25% from your STU to curators.

You remain with 75 STU.

This amount is split 50 / 50, with the following algorithm:

  1. the first half is given in SBD, in the exact amount shown by division. In our case, half of 75 is 37.5. So you get half of your rewards as 37.5 SBD
  2. the second half is given in Steem Power, at the current feed price (the internal Steemit price for STEEM) in USD. So you get $37.5 worth of Steem Power. If the current feed price of STEEM is, let's say $6, you get $37.5 / $6 = 6.25 Steem Power.

Please note the difference: you get SBD directly as half of your rewards, but you get your Steem Power at the current market price of STEEM, not in absolute numbers.

You get half as SBD, and half as usd equivalent value expressed in SP, at the current price of SP in USD.

The end result for something that displays 100 STU near your post:

  • 37.5 SBD
  • 6.25 Steem Power

Let's see how much this means in fiat at the following prices: STEEM = $6, SBD = $8.

  • 37.5 SBD x 8 = $300
  • 6.25 Steem Power x 6 = $37.5.

So $100 displayed rewards, are actually equal = $337.5 real USD.

I tested this algorithm on a few posts, implemented it in steem.supply so hopefully from now on your rewards will be correctly calculated. Please be aware that the former algorithms often resulted in higher payouts than real. From now on, this shouldn't happen. If you notice something unusual, please let me know.

Major Cleanup

I bumped the beta version to 0.3.0 and I got rid of any other unnecessary baggage. JSECoin code has been removed, it was a nice experiment for a while, but steem.supply is now too big to run experiments on it. What started as a one page Steemit learning exercise turned into a tool that gets used by more than 1,000 people every day, and it's even used as evidence in acrimonious disputes over the reward pool. So from now on will keep it as clean and as accurate as possible.

As always, looking forward to your criticism, suggestions and feedback.


I'm a serial entrepreneur, blogger and ultrarunner. You can find me mainly on my blog at Dragos Roua where I write about productivity, business, relationships and running. Here on Steemit you may stay updated by following me @dragosroua.


Dragos Roua


You can also vote for me as witness here:
https://steemit.com/~witnesses


If you're new to Steemit, you may find these articles relevant (that's also part of my witness activity to support new members of the platform):

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Everything is fine and very nicely explained dear @dragosroua but why in steem.supply when you show the potential payout, you certainly put the wrong computation of SP. Please correct it, I am also attaching the screenshot here.

jpg.jpg

Please check the screenshot and in my case the potential payout is 54.16 SBD+ 31.97 SP. While 54.16 is the correct one but 31.97 SP is the wrong one and the correct one is 10.697 SP. Because I added the figueres of SP individually for each post and comment which is given in details at the the bottom of the profile in steem.supply and after adding it, the total figure is not matching with the potential payout figure of SP.

jpg1.jpg

jpg2.jpg

I hope you pay attention to the error and correct it at earliest. Thank you and Have a great day.

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Thanks for the heads up, I'll look into it.

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Thank you for paying attention to the issue.

This just blew my mind. I remember reading another post where someone says split you payout to 50/50 is SBD is over $1 and 100% if it’s under $1

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That was me, yeah. Still true :P

Have you corrected the rewards for 30 minutes timeline there.

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come again?

Is it possible to switch payouts for posts to be 100% SBD somehow? Wouldn't that result in a higher USD value overall for the payout?

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I don't think it's possible right now. It will most likely require a hardfork, if ever the witnesses agree to change the consensus.

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oh ok, i thought maybe some UIs allowed more options than just 50/50 or 100% steem power.

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Rewards are part of the consensus, they do not depend on UI.

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Since posts are made via UIs, the options available for choosing post payouts depends on UIs supporting the available options - for example steemit.com does not currently support splitting payouts between multiple beneficiaries, yet it can be done at the blockchain level and is done by other UIs. I thought that, as with beneficiaries, more options existed for SBD/Steem splits than is visible in the Seemit UI - but maybe not.

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but maybe not.

yep, not.

Also

Since posts are made via UIs

not necessarily true. You can interact with the blockchain directly via the cli_wallet, if you wish...

Good job, awesome explanation because I was wandering where my sp goes, and my favorite tool! Thanks!

It was very very confusing and suspicious so far, thanks a ton for the straightforward explanation, nice job! Voted you as a witness! cheers

:D

Now to wait for Steem.Supply to work again for me and see how hard my projected income "Drops", which it doesn't, because it was an error anyway, but still.

;_;

Good job! We got there in the end, including all the 85/15 discussions. It was worth it. All for the sake of understanding. Thanks for persevering <3

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Thanks for surviving to my proverbial stubbornness :)

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Thank you for cooperating and being awesome, you stubborn men! <3

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Stubbornness is next to Godliness. I think... right?

Thank you for this! Really useful!

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my pleasure, glad it's useful :)

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Incredibly so! Thanks!

Thanks for that. That makes it so much clearer.

Thanks @dragosroua for the updates, steem.supply is an amazing tool which is beneficial to all the members of steemit platform, i appreciate your decision of removing JSEcoin code, you may find even better alternatives once steem.supply gains little more popularity. Good luck!

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i appreciate your decision of removing JSEcoin code

Me, too.

@dragosroua: More Complexity for your Computational Formulas:

The Steem blockchain has an interesting feature when SBD debt is too high. If the SBD debt exceeds 2% of Steem market cap, author rewards split starts deviating from 50% SP + 50% SBD, producing some Steem instead of SBD. At 3.5%, it is 50% SP + 25% SBD + 25% Steem. At SBD debt hitting and exceeding 5%, all SBD production stops, and author rewards are given out at 50% SP + 50% Steem.
https://steemit.com/steem/@liberosist/thought-experiment-sbd-only-rewards-at-high-sbd-price

Really learned a lot here. $ are Steem Token Unit. Shared to my Steemit Facebook & Twitter Group👍

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Thanks, appreciate it :)

@dragosroua ~ I really appreciate the effort you put into this, but I still am a little confused. My "Total Potential Rewards" indicates nearly $700, but I cannot determine where this is coming from. Can you further help me understand. Thanks.

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There is a concept called inflation. What it means is that the new tokens are created regularly. These tokens are distributed to the users who create value and contribute to the Steem eco system either by creation content, curating content, holding steempower or by being a witness. Quoting from the Steem blue paper

The rate that new tokens are generated was set to 9.5% per year starting in December 2016,
and decreases at a rate of 0.01% every 250,000 blocks, or about 0.5% per year. The inflation
will continue decreasing at this rate until it reaches 0.95%, after a period of approximately 20.5
years.
Of the supply of new tokens created by the Steem blockchain every year, 75% of those tokens
compose the “rewards pool” which are distributed to content creators and content curators.
15% are distributed to vested token holders, and 10% are distributed to Witnesses, the block
producers cooperating inside Steem’s DPoS consensus protocol.

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Still does not justify my Potential Rewards... it was way too high and it should have been closer to $25 usd when I posed the question, not $700.

Nicely done!
SBD might fall down, but supply is small so it ain't hard to pump...

I think this is the most clear explanation about How rewards are calculated. Ty a lot sir!

This is an amazing explanation, and it really cleared up a lot of misunderstandings I had about the payouts. Now that I understand the numbers a bit better, it actually really motivates me. Thank you.

Nice to hear the update @dragosroua! I used to check steem.supply a lot a while back but stopped because of loading issues and the rewards shown were confusing! I think you have got it right and working properly! Thanks for such a useful tool!

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Hi! @dragosroua! You have done a nice job with content reward tab, I guess it reflects the rewards properly now! May I suggest that you update the account value section as well as it is not reflecting the value properly. Probably you are working on it but do factor in the Steem, SP and SBD balances of the user accounts as well as I see the current account value is factoring the delegated SP and not sure what else.

Where were you 20 days ago when I was struggling to figure it out?
I knew everything by the time you wrote this. XD

This is the first time I heard of your site but I think I will be using it a lot in the future. Also thank you for explaining the rewards since I'm kinds new and had trouble understanding why some posts make so much while others almost nothing.

Thanks for sharing this calculations, I actually had a problem with this, I was complaining about the Steem power given being too low compared with the SBD but now I understand. Thanks ones again for sharing

Good job..Keep it up..
Upvoted and resteemed

Oh thank you so much!
I've been thinking about it for so long and you gave me a simple understandable answer!

Props !

I'm quite new and was already wondering about the relation and the meaning of the $ signs related to a post - very informative. Thanks for that :)

"Steem Token Unit", or STU.
For me it is a

Steem Token Unit of Pure Value or STUPV

I almost came as STUPID. So better be STUV or Steem Token Unit Value

Thank you, i found many new things about Steemit from this post :)

Always improving.

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Or at least trying :)

As long as you know what's going on, that's all that matters to me! haha (-:

Excelente publicación, aunque soy nuevo en la familia Steemit esta publicación es muy explícita me gusto mucho, gracias por compartirla con toda esta comunidad, te invito a que visites mis publicaciones, mucho sabré agradecerte por tus consideraciones, seré tu seguidor y votare, estere pendiente de tus post
https://steemit.com/bescouted/@esquinacreativa/lobo-siberiano
https://steemit.com/cervantes-spanish/@esquinacreativa/familia-steemit-2018-steemit-family-2018

Yeah because 1 SBD is assumed to be equal to 1 USD.

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It was designed to be pegged to the dollar, works well for more than a year..not the case after the rise of SBD in the last few weeks. Not that I am complaining.. :)

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Screen Shot 2018-01-05 at 3.34.27 PM.png


Source


I doubt the total potential payout is accurate as STEEM rewards should not exceed SBD they are actually way lower by a factor of approx: 1/7

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Do you have any posts with 100% SP? Because that gets calculated and factored in too.

The comments payout was not refactored, though, that's true, it slipped, I'm on it now.

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Nope all my posts are set for a 50-50 payout :)

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K, I couldn't reproduce your exact split, but there's some inconsistency. I'll look into it.

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I also had an error of about $1,000 USD. Simply I told myself, @dragosroua wants us to wake up.

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Also had errors in @haneun

Thank you for maintaining your app, we appreciate the tool and a dev who looks after it :)

But this does not make sense, I think Iunderstand the algorithm,but it doesn't make sense. Why the Steem is converted to USD at the feed price and SBD is not? It seems more like a bug to me...

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SBD is paid as "stable", in absolute numbers. This was the initial design, to have a part of payments in a stable currency. Assumed to be always $1. Isn't.

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The truth is that if SBD will go back to 1 dollar, everybody will be pretty upset. By the way, do you think it will pump again or should I power them up now?

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I have been watching numbers from the point of view of randomness. I see a DELTA Spread = 2, a Lower Limit at 6 and and upper limit at 8, converging both to 7. At least from the graphs of coinmarketcap.com

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HNI. Have No Idea :)

one thing.
if I understand it on SSupply the 'days' are actually moving 24 hr periods...NOT calculated from midnight to midnight.

in other words...it's 8:43 where I am...so yesterday would be longer than 24 hours ago...regardless of the date.

Have I got that right?

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Days are "24 hour time windows" from the current moment. So everything for the next 24 hours is displayed in hours, then it comes "in one day", then "in 2 days" etc.

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that explains the behavior of the 'stacks' (graph)
kinda confusing. I'm used to days being from midnight to midnight.
thanx.

very interesting stuff with the STU, the acronym sounds dirty though :)

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I think it sounds dirty only in Romanian. And only if you add an "F" somewhere in the middle :))

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I was thinking of "shut the f&^% up" rather than the romanian version :)

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I thought you were thinking of "STD" myself ;-)

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Remembers me, of TSU

I personally just found out steem.supply and have been using it ever since. Great work.

@dragosroua I have been dealing with this same issue on the steem bot tracker website that I run. I get asked this a few times a day now and it's a really big problem.

I have called what is shown on steemit.com "POST REWARDS" so you can choose to see rewards in USD or POST REWARDS on the site.

Thank you for this post @dragosroua. I have seen explanations of the steemit payout calculation in the past, but I have to say that this one is the best. You use examples in order for everyone to understand what you are explaining. Good job!!!
I did not know about steem.supply. I just saw this post mentioned by @exyle. I will check out steem.supply.
Thanks again for this excellent post!

Best explanation of our earnings so far! That dollar symbol has always got me (and others who won't admit it) confused and no one has been able to explain it this clearly and simply. Thank you.

you could have let JSECoin on website to be mined i have no problem with that because that coin doesn't get your 100% CPU not even 10%

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Still have it on other sites I run, it wasn't a technical thing, but mostly strategic.

A. I am glad to see your post earnings are so well considering most Devs get beneficiary rewards and it is difficult for a Dev that creates a website to gain the amount of money as those that do (i.e. utopian, steepshot, cahin bb, etc.)

B. I am glad you took off JSE. Though I don't judge, it is heavily frowned upon. Even UFC caught flack for it. I liked that you ran it because, as I said some Devs get bank while others don't, but anyways.

C. I have a love-hate relationship with STU instead of SBD. STU makes it more accurate but also harder to calculate. Would it be possible to add a calculator built in at the top right or left to be able to allow people to input their STU and have it divy it by SP and SBD. steem.rocks is another alternative to yours that has it's advantages and disadvantages. I am curious if both of you would be interested in collaborations.

Anyways, thanks for the wonderful service and it is awesome you work on it so often!

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Even UFC caught flack for it.

You're mistaken anonymous and mischievous Monero mining implementations in JS (like the one UFC has been using) with a transparent, experimental coin named JSEcoin. Two very different things.

You're welcome and, as a dev, I would stick around. While I don't have any immediate tech projects that are going beyond my time allocated for them, there might be a need for more resources soon, if the STEEM price stabilizes here. At this level it is lucrative to start writing mashups on top of the blockchain.

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Interesting. Thanks for sharing the info. Are you on Discord?

Holy mother of Logic!!! I’ve been here since mid May 2017, and so far, this is the only explanation of how payouts is calculated, that made any sense to me!!! Ding, ding, ding; MicFly!!

Much much mahalo @dragosrousa!! Now I can confidently explain this calculation/algorithm to my friends and not look like a total idiot.

Aloha!

Wow, I finally get it ! That is crazy amazing... holy hell, no wonder we want a larger percentage of the payout in SBD, even when the price of SBD have "fallen" recently, haha ... damn. Resteem

Great work! I was already wondering about this and had trouble understanding. This helps a lot!

This is a very helpful write-up, @dragosroua, thank you - been here around 2 months & still trying to figure out payment breakdown!

Will be reading your other articles & off to vote you as a witness :) Best of luck ✌🏼

Thank you for your hard work.

I think there may be a bug in implementation, though, as even though my rewards currently stand at some 6 STU (which should break into something like 3 SBD and 0.5 SP) my reward is currently as follows:

Liquid: 54 USD, Invested: 820 USD
total potential* author** payout: 6.81 SBD + 136.75 Steem Power

Source: http://steem.supply/@borepstein

I think there is an issue with the implementation.

this has answered sooo many questions that i have had since i joined steemit.. i cant thank u enough for this. am sharing this other steemit groups am in on fb, whatsapp, etc. am sure theres still a lot of people on this dilemma.

Thanks for the updated explanation. Am I correct that Steem.Supply calculates the most current value of STEEM when estimating "Account Value" while Steemit utilizes a rolling weekly average? Would also like to read more information in regards to "Potential Growth" and the entire top section of Steem.Supply. Thanks !

Thank you for this - most useful.

I had recently got questions about this from one of the people I mentor and a couple of others in the homesteading discord.

I can now give a solid answer.

I’m finding the ratios really weird right now. On 50/50, the SBD amount is quite high, while the Steem Power is very low. Am I missing a step in the calculation here. The two have got back nearer to a 1:1 ratio, so I imagined they’d be near to identical.

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SBD you get it as the exact amount of coins in STU, whereas Steem Power you get it as the $ value of STU divided by the Steem price. For instance, on a 50 / 50 ratio from 100, you would get

  • 50 SBD (the exact amount in coins)
  • $50 / $6 (Steem price) -> $50 worth of Steem Power.
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Got it!

What started as a one page Steemit learning exercise turned into a tool that gets used by more than 1,000 people every day,

I use it as a Revenue Income Management Tool for Planning my Weekly Earnings.

Great job and explanation!

Maaan!! thank you for this post!! though i need to read it again to take in everything! i have being wondering how this reward thingy works honestly your post has helped some. God bless you loads!

Thank you for such a great explanation, resteemed)

Very clear explanation.
Is there any way to transfer out the value from steem units in actual $?

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Thank you!
What units from the wallet can be transferred: STEEM, STEEM POWER, STEM DOLLARS, SAVINGS?

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Steem and Steem Dollars.
Steem Power has to be powered down over 13 weeks to be turned into Steem and become tradeable.

can't wait for it to come back online! :)

Thanks man I truly enjoy steem.supply. I just came across it the other day and love the breakdown it gives me in regards to when and how much I'll be paid. This article also solved a lot of questions I had in regards to how rewards were exactly calculated.

Much love,
Bryan

The bars in the graph do not match the numbers beneath, but are noticeably lower.

By the by, while "STU" is neat, I'd still like to know at a glance how much money in USD I stand to gain each day.

Also, as can be seen, I'm projected to earn a lot more than 36 STU this week, so the numbers at the top of the chart are incorrect.

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The bars in the graph do not match the numbers beneath, but are noticeably lower.

The bars in the graph are SBD / SP, not STU.

By the by, while "STU" is neat, I'd still like to know at a glance how much money in USD I stand to gain each day.

Do you suggest adding directly in the posts how much USD for each / total? You have the total amount in USD just above the chart.

Also, as can be seen, I'm projected to earn a lot more than 36 STU this week, so the numbers at the top of the chart are incorrect.

After modifying the algo I still have some vars lingering around that may not follow through, so that's definitely looking like a bug.

Thanks!

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Oh right, the bars are SBD/SP... I do recommend that for the posts bars, just like the comments one, mousing over would give me data.

And yes, I do recommend adding directly to posts how much I get for each. Maybe in parenthesis next to the post?

A big reason to use Steem.Supply is so it'd tell you how much money you're currently projected to earn. Right now it's telling you how much you're projected to earn over 7 days. It'd be very helpful and convenient to users to know how much they're projected to earn daily, without the need for the calculation.

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The reason you have the posts chart as an image is related to the Twitter sharing code. It needs an image for the twitter card preview, otherwise it gets a little confused. Initially it was just like the posts, a SVG with hovering info. Will think of a way to make Twitter sharing work without making the chart a static PNG.

K, will add USD to posts. I am working on a feature to show the breakdown for each posts (how much each vote is "giving" you) so will make the next update include your suggestion too.

Thanks :)

Great improvements. I use Steem Supply every day. Faster and more stable loading is greatly appreciated.

Thanks a lot buddy this have helped to lot to get in my mind ,from on will get things correctly and indeed was wondering about the STU in Steem.supply but clear now :)

thank you so much, that is probably the most clear explanation i have read and can actually understand. It always confused me, and sure everyone else how these calculations worked. Very grateful to you!

Thank you so much. You have given me the answer I was looking for, and reading in FAQ of steemit, but I didn't find it till now. I was wondering why the 50% of 75% wich represent SP is so less compared with 50% represented in SBD. Now I understand. The SP is calculated from $ devided at the rate of Steem. Great job. I realy apreciate it. I'm happy I read your post.

Uh wow. what an eye opener. resteemed

Thank you so much @dragosroua. I use steem.supply daily. It helps me gauge on what is working and what is not. For example I love the summation of STU on the comments rewards. I get to figure if I am doing well or not commenting enough. It motivates me to work more knowing that I am reaching towards something when there are numbers behind it. Thanks.

Loading...

I Love this posting because it helps me to understand much better how the post payouts work. Thank you @dragosroua......................

good article and good site for calculation

all the best

Thank you for your work. My talents lay elsewhere, but I am impressed with anyone who can write and implement hard code!

Wow. Thank you for this @dragosroua! I finally knew how to calculate it
Thank you also for the links that you have provided, it can definitely help me to start better in steemit!

This is a much needed post and I'm much relieved that someone wrote it. The payout concept because more confusing in past 1 month with rise in SBD and STEEM prices. Awesome job @dragosroua. You're a savior.

@helensoutar ... you should read this. It will make you feel very cheerful and it will also explain why you had such an unexpectedly [comparatively] high account value :-D

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GReat article, thanks for the tag!

Found your post interesting to read. I can't wait to see your post soon. Good Luck with the upcoming update.This article is really very interesting and effective. @dragosroua

I find your post helpful and sincere. I will most definitely follow you.

I for one simply discovered steem.supply and have been utilizing it from that point onward. Extraordinary work.
Upvoted and resteemed

I think we all need to know how the rewards are calculated. I have so much to learn and understand. Thank you for your help! Resteemed.

You are doing a great work @dragosroua to keep steem.supply up and running seamlessly, didn't know your response to the previous post will be this fast.

Thanks to you mister. It made my day things getting clearer now. :) sounds good to me man.
Done upvoting and followed you. Hope you do the same :)

Wow thank you very much with this article you have clarified many of my doubts, continue with contributions as well as this

oh now i see you managed to solve that quickly :)

It's annoying how you need to go hacker mode every time you want to get a complete grasp of something here.

I'm sad that I picked the 100% SP. It really does generate less than the 50:50. Haha! Still, this is great information. At least now, I know. :)

I've been trying to work out what this was from the day I signed up to steem. It's so damn confusing. Thanks for clearing that up.

I came to this post following the STU asterisks in steem.supply. I was really wondering how the 50-50 share gives correct the SBD's but so little SP. Thank you for your effort to explain it, in a very clear way.

dragosroua!! Thank you, your Post.

Yeah @dragosroua as a few other recent comments have said I think there may be an issue now... the expected steem power payout is WAY over for me too. I wish what it showed was true lol :p.

Such good content for a noob like myself, thanks.

Hello @dragosroua. Thank you for this insight into this compley and for me completely new world of numbers. Highly appreciated! There is still sooooo much to learn for me.
Cheers.
Moritz

Thanks for the info @dragosroua. It's a tool I'm using almost daily and I've been using it after I've discovered it (4 months at least). I like learning how things are calculated. However, I'm getting odd graph showing my reward STEEM value of more than 11 on my 1.63 post in 6 days. It says 0.61 STU and nothing for STEEM. It should be 0.61 SBD and 0.11 STEEM if I'm not mistaken. Right?
In the comments section, all is working normally

Nice number crunching there!

Thanks for this.

👍😉

I upvoted, followed you
Please follow me

Thanks for the concise explanation of Steem Token Unit - STU!

Wow. This is a nice clear explanation. And thanks for creating such a useful tool.

Now I get it! It always confused me how rewards are calculated .

Thank you for this info Sir! ☺️ steem.supply has been my favorite tool along with steemnow. I’ll share this to our group, this is very informative. I was checking steem.supply, and I got confused with STU, so I clicked the link you provided. Thank you! 🤗

To be honest I'm still kind of shocked at the amount revenue you can bring in with steem blockchain algorithm. It also helps that everybody can recognize the eliteness of Steem enough to make it spike up in the markets. Great setup, very happy to be a part of it.

Wow.Good

thanks for posting this @dragosrousa. I was trying to figure the comp payout and not getting very far. I resteemed this so that I can refer back to it in my blog list.

Thank you for this info very helpful !!

Algo still need update?

image

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yes, still working on the comments part, expect a commit in a few hours.

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Ok, i saw 12ish SBD and over 80 steem and was like o.O wtf!?

Nice clear explanation of post rewards :)

Thanks for your work on steem.supply. It has been a useful tool.

Wow, so we will start seeing an increase on our rewards right?, cool we can figure our USD reward better now...

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Actually, the numbers shown previously were too high, so you should see a dip, but at least you'll be able to count on what you see.