Steem Dollar Economics

in steem •  2 years ago

I wanted to chime in on the Steem Dollar discussion because so few seem to grasp the full economic picture. This post is for educational purposes only and is not an attempt to sway the discussion in either direction or to indicate my preferences. I believe that everyone should be operating from an accurate as possible understanding.

Law of Conservation of Risk

At any given moment in time risk can never be created nor destroyed, only transferred. In this case, the risk we are referring to is the volatility of cryptocurrency. This volatility is rooted in changing market perceptions which in turn impact the supply and demand.

In order to create a price-stable currency, such as the Steem Dollar, you must transfer risks from one group of people to another. The Steem Dollar transfers its volatility to STEEM. This means that the profits from holding STEEM increase when STEEM is growing and the losses increase when STEEM is falling.

There is an even trade between STEEM holders and Steem Dollar holders. When STEEM grows value is transferred to STEEM, when STEEM falls, value is transferred to Steem Dollars.

Impact of Interest

Normally people have to pay interest in order to borrow money. This means that there is a cost associated with purchasing leverage. This cost is worth it anytime the growth of STEEM is greater than the interest rate paid on STEEM Dollars. If STEEM grows slower than the interest rate, then borrowing SBD is a bad investment. If it grows faster than the interest rate then it is a good investment.

Long Term Perspective

If your long term view is that STEEM will be worth less than it is today, then buying Steem Dollars and converting to STEEM at the low makes the most sense. If your long term view is that STEEM will be worth 10x or more, then you want the network to have as much Steem Dollars as possible.

Only 10% of STEEM is used as collateral for outstanding SBD

The term's of the SBD smart contract are that only 10% of the STEEM network is pledged as collateral for the debt. This means that the network's maximum "loss" is 10% of equity. There is no "infinite dilution" caused by SBD; instead, there is a hard upper limit.

The Steem Dollar serves as a competing currency to STEEM, but it also serves as a bridge into STEEM. SBD existences makes STEEM more volatile which detracts from its appeal as a currency. It is hard to bootstrap currencies without bridges from existing currencies. Ultimately the market will pick the best currency. The Steem Dollar's fate is tied to the Federal Reserve and may die on its own.

So either STEEM falls and the SBD becomes pegged to STEEM or STEEM grows and SBD contributes to boosting the gains.

The biggest risk is unrealistic expectations of normal users who would be unjustifiably upset if SBD was suddenly pegged to STEEM.

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It is a tough call..

On one hand, there is a risk to both the network and SBD holder due to the debt level reaching high levels. I have covered the main reasons against SBD in this post here: SBD Debt Issue - Riding the STEEM Price Roller Coaster.


As far as reasons for SBD, here is what I wrote in another post:

SBD is beneficial for merchants. Merchants are really the ones that need a 'stable' currency in order to function.

For an actual business to try and sell their goods and services (which have fixed costs to produce) they need to be able to set fixed prices. Having a stable and widely used currency will attract more merchants to sell their goods and services using the digital currency.

Merchants are beneficial to STEEM holders because "non crypto" users will have more things that they can do with their earnings from the site.

I remember trying to explain the money thing to my non crypto friends, and lots of people lost interest when they heard you have to register in an exchange, provide your bank account information, trade your SBD (or STEEM) for BTC, and then sell the BTC to get cash. I did this on behalf of many of my friends, but not everybody is going to know somebody who can do this for them.

If someone could see that they can take what they earn and go buy an i-Phone (or whatever other good/service they are interested in) in the internal marketplace using their earnings from the site - that would be huge!


One small thing that I think could help would be to introduce a way to "throttle" SBD production in ways other than the forced measures that get imposed when the debt gets too high. One simple way to do this would be to give users another payout option: 50% SP / 50% STEEM. At the very least, it would slow down the rate at which the network produces SBD, which would reduce the amount that SBD exaggerates the volatility of STEEM.

I see the SBD as being very valuable for a future marketplace I hope to see powered by the Steem blockchain. Many people don't think about value in terms of Satoshis and aren't comfortable doing conversions all the time, especially when cryptocurrencies swing widely in terms of purchasing power compared to USD. I've been holding SBD lately in hopes of buying more STEEM closer to wherever the floor ends up being over the next 6 months or so. I understand some of the risks SBD represent, and I try to convert when I want to go back into STEEM in order to cancel the debt (even if that turns into a loss at times). One of the strengths of steemit is to bring "every day" mom and pop people into blockchain and cryptocurrency worlds. SBD I think works as a very nice bridge for that process and the $ sign has real meaning if the rewards are pegged accordingly.

My $0.020 SBD:

We keep SBD. Why? Because over half of the world knows what a damn dollar is.

Anyone who thinks that having 2 or more stores of value on the network is detrimental need look no further than the forex markets.

Personally I think multiple investment vehicles is great for stimulating the STEEM economy.. Anyone attempting to pull the "this over-complicates things" card should seriously look into the volatility of other world currencies and get back to me.

SBD simplifies things.. Else you simply wouldn't have implemented it in the first place. :)

I don't want to spend my STEEM in stores in 10 years. I want to spend my SBD.

Why? Because STEEM is a "status token" where SBD is more of a currency in my eyes.

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I don't want to spend my STEEM in stores in 10 years. I want to spend my SBD.

So you really thing $ dollars will still exist in 10 years from now...

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Absolutely.

They will just raise the debt ceiling and keep printing them as they have since nixon axed the gold standard.

There are plenty of countries that use the $ sign too.. If USD somehow dies (it won't) then we could always peg to CAD (Canadian Dollars) or hell even some other wild dollar like zimbabwe dollars.

Money is a form of control over people.. They aren't going to just stop using dollars even though the system is unsustainable.. We've seen it happen time and time again. There is always a bail-out... and always more money to be had.

Not trying to defend the obvious screwed economy we've got going on here... But I'm a realist.

USD is far more likely to be around in 10 years than it isn't. History dictates this.

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As long as the oil is traded in dollars the fed can just keep printing, but if the petro dollar is replaced the dollar will have trouble. The economy is so globally intertwined now and dependent on the dollar that even if the shit hits the fan the dollar will last longer than most other fiats.

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That is not the point. If the USD will not be the de facto currency standard we can use a different one to peg SBD to.

The key however is to have a currency that is part of the steem ecosystem. steem and SP are not currencies in the sense that they cannot be used to store value. Currency requires stable value to be effective.

Thanks for the clarification, I didn't explain anything about SBD in my post, nor would I be qualified to this extent hehe ;) I noticed you didn't comment at all on that SBD question post, I'm just curious, were you just waiting to address everything in a post like this? Edit: Did something put you off from the post? I also notice you didn't upvote it, no biggy, but I am wondering if there was something about it that bothered you rather than interested you? Thanks for any insights you can provide :) Peace.

You should take a poll and ask your users if they find Steem Dollars useful.
You can build the most elaborate structure in the world, that is perfect and so amazing, and find out out that only 2% of the users find it useful.
I stopped using or thinking about Steem Dollars a while ago. I think simplicity can go a long ways................just ask your users, set up a poll, or maybe I will...

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This is how I'd answer the poll:

I have the 51st-largest SBD balance of any Steemit account. I have those couple thousand SBD because I need a certain amount of price stability. If there were no SBD, I'd have moved all of that value out of the Steem ecosystem a very long time ago.

So yes, SBD is important to me.

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I think this might be a good idea, but I also think it's good Ned asked for some discussion input before/rather than just going with a traditional vote poll alone.

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A poll is not every time the right solution... I believe some times (if not the most) poll results are not beneficial! For example for our situation I am afraid the members don't know the real risks of keeping Sbds.... I think we must let the experts and the leaders take the decision.... It is my humble opinion...

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I totally agree. I think the Steem Dollar idea is something left over from Dan's earlier project with Bitshares and its smart tokens. I cannot see what it usefully adds to Steem.

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current users or potential users which can become real users and can make steem grow 1000 times?

As long as only 10% of the liquid Steem is blocked into an alternate currency like SBD, I personally consider SBD an interesting experiment. But just an experiment. From a theoretical point of view, SBD is "working".

The real validation will come if there will be market demand. If people have a way to spend their SBD, then there will also be demand for it. If it's just a theoretical experiment, it will be dwarfed as just a "theoretical experiment".

A currency is ulterior to a market, to a stream of transactions. If there aren't any transactions, as brilliant as the mathematical model behind a currency is, there won't be any adoption.

This reminds me of another experiment, in languages this time. People invented an artificial language called esperanto. Guess what, nobody used it.

The real problem is a marketplace, not a currency. If we have a place where we could sell stuff, we can invent 20 different currencies and nobody will have a problem with that. I'm eagerly waiting for the roadmap of Steem. A marketplace will certainly make all these comments about SBD obsolete. At the end of the day, people just want to be able to buy and sell safely and profitably.

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I agree with you except:

  1. peerhub.com exists, it was built by a big Steem supporter, and it supports SBD for payments.
  2. Aside from peerhub, there are other uses for SBD for payments in the ecosystem. It was extensively used by and for Steemfest, is used by other projects and initiatives, and finally for the Promotions page (which we are told is to be a proof-of-concept for more advanced promotion features). Steemsports has also used it for real money gaming, and plans to expand that use.
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  1. I know about peerhub.com and used it. Looks like the community is quite small, though. My perception of a marketplace is something similar to the internal market for buying / selling currencies which we already have on steemit.com
  2. I also know about promotions page (used it a few times myself) and about SteemSports. These are real examples of transactions and they benefit from SBD. My point is: if we would have more of these, the theoretical conversation about SBD wouldn't be necessary.

Thanks for contributing to the conversation, appreciated it.

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if we would have more of these, the theoretical conversation about SBD wouldn't be necessary.

I agree, but you have to start somewhere, and these cases show that the potential is there. The entire steemit community is very small (probably only a thousand or so very active users) so you just can't expect too many little niches to thrive. But with a large community there can be many of these niches indeed, and larger marketplaces and economies starting to bloom.

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Agree. So we're still all very early adopters.

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Thank you for that enlightening input. I feel like your comment put a nice perspective on the matter.

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A marketplace will certainly make all these comments about SBD obsolete. At the end of the day, people just want to be able to buy and sell safely and profitably.

Agreed.

If STEEM is the better cryptocurrency to bootstrap - which I think it is - and if bloggers had the choice to be paid out in SP + SBD or SP + STEEM, then would there need to be incentives to encourage users to accept STEEM for payout? I personally see SBD as an excellent gateway cryptocurrency. Once a person has been here a while though, the fluctuating price is not as scary. Would it be up to the witnesses maybe to compete with the price of STEEM on the market...?

The Steem Dollar's fate is tied to the Federal Reserve and may die on its own.

That is a realistic possibility.

So one obvious solution is
1.to use only STEEM and SP...
2.what about giving the option to let users (market) choose between more than one bitasset, like steem-gold, steem-euro, steem-bitcoin etc. Is there an easy/simple way to give a plethora of bitasset choices?

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what about giving the option to let users (market) choose between more than one bitasset, like steem-gold, steem-euro, steem-bitcoin etc. Is there an easy/simple way to give a plethora of bitasset choices?

A simplier solution is to put a floor on the ratio of USD to one of those other assets or a basket. If USD fails due to hyperinflation, SBD would automatically switch over to the other asset(s) and remain useful. This avoids having to create a stock market environment with even more assets that doesn't fit with the simplicity and user-friendliness that Steem is apparently going for.

It is similar to what Dan was saying is going to happen now if USD fails, except instead becoming tied directly to STEEM (which I personally believe will continue to be extremely volatile for a very long time) would tie to another stable value asset.

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Cool. I remember Dan mentioning such a possibility.

From a business owner perspective interested in using either SBD or Steem to accept payments, SBD has more appeal if only for simplifying my accounting and pricing processes. Simplicity is good business and easier to adopt. @ats-david made some good points that clarify this more in his post today.

@dantheman, here's to the federal reserve crumbling.

Your post is a good economic explanation. I do not really see it as a pro or con argument in the current debate. Personally, I think we need to focus on growing STEEM now. As much as I liked SP, I think it failed in this context, while SBD has been something of a distraction. Short term, if you want to scrap SBD, go ahead, because the demand and volume aren't there to utilize it yet.

Longer term, I know that a price stable cryptocurrency is a dream for you and for many people. I can only guess that, if SBD is taken off the boards for now, you will bring back a price stable currency model at some point. And I'm sure you have learned more this time about what works well and what might be improved in that model. Longer term, a price stable currency has an important role. BitUSD, SBD, ? Maybe the third time will be the charm. For now, let's go full STEEM ahead and take down Bitcoin.

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@ats-david made some good points for keeping the SBD in his post today. What are your thoughts about keeping the SBD so merchants have an easy way to price items? Businesses that want to accept payments SBDs need a reliable way to price their goods and services and having SBD pegged to the dollar makes this easy to implement and simplifies bookkeeping.

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Steem is a real currency now. I don't have any problem with keeping SBD if that's what people want, but I don't see the demand to justify it right now. There are some costs in terms of maintaining it and making conversions; I think we could do without this distraction as we build around Steem.

The ideal of a price stable cryptocurrency (BitUSD, NuBits, Tether, SBD) came in response to Bitcoin's volatility, but that has calmed down over time as people have used it more. I think we can take on Bitcoin with Steem if we keep building this ecosystem. SP and SBD are not really needed at the moment, but even if they were scrapped or sidelined for the time being, they could be brought back into the system later if there is a need for what they offer. If the community wants to keep SBD, then I'm fine with that; I don't see it as a big deal either way.

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I like the SBD and it makes it easier to explain Steemit to my friends that are not familiar with cryptocurrencies.
I don't think I fully understand why there's even a discussion about scrapping it. Can you point me in a direction that could clarify why it's even a topic of discussion right now?

Hi Dan. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the issue.

The biggest risk is unrealistic expectations of normal users who would be unjustifiably upset if SBD was suddenly pegged to STEEM.

For this part, are you referring to the scenario where the SBD debt exceeds the 10% threshold, and converting no longer returns approximately 1 USD worth of STEEM?

I think the fear is that if this were to happen, it would make using SBD as a marketplace currency (at least in today's conditions where a USD has a reliable value in the eyes of 'normal' users) very unappealing. It essentially takes away the main reason for users to even use SBD in the first place.

At that point, why wouldn't they just transact directly in STEEM?

I trade all my SBD to Steem right away. The only dollars I want are Benjamin's in my physical wallet.

Personally, I never saw much use for the SBD..., Steem goes up, I lose. If I feel Steem is at an inflated price, I could hold in bitcoin.

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...but for the record, I see both sides of the coin. I also am not an expert on the economics behind SBD.

What are your thoughts about the comments from some users that say SBDs are contributing to the current downward spiral we find ourselves in with regards to the price of steem?

Their main argument being that SBDs have created a safe haven for people that fear the price of steem going down. So, they stay in SBDs waiting for the price to go lower, only it keeps going lower because they are always waiting instead of converting. Sort of a self fulfilling prophecy type of thing. And, that it has created a disincentive to buy steem. Are they incorrect?

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It is nonsense. There are plenty of other safe (or at least safer) havens for people to flee to if they believe STEEM is going to decline in value. The existance of one additional safe haven has at best marginal effect, and probably not even that. Especially considering that a huge, huge, huge factor in the price declining is lack of investors coming to buy in. Those investors already have their capital elsewhere. Do people really believe that the tiny quantity of 1.2 million SBD (a large part of which, by the way, is held by Steemit itself) is the key missing pool of capital that if suddenly unleashed would send STEEM to the moon?

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Do people really believe that the tiny quantity of 1.2 million SBD

Keep in mind that this is real value of about $1.2 million dollars! The current marketcap of $30 million dollars (and every cryptos marketcap) are not! In my understanding it is not so tiny as it seems to be.

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Also, keep in mind that the current market cap of $30M isnt the market cap thats actually on the market.

there is about 25M "liquid" steem, which amounts to like $3.2M.

That is to say, that 1.2m SBD market cap would be sufficient to buy more than 33% of all extant free steem.

But although SBD could take away capital in theory, two factors suggest that it is not doing so in a significant manner in reality:

  1. SBD typically trades at a far lower volume than steem (for example right now SBD 24 hour volume is under $7k. Steem 24 hour volume is $104K)

  2. Steem and SBD seem to vary in synch, not in opposition. The fastest losses in market price for steem coincide with the lowest SBD values. The infrequent periods of increasing steem market price seem to coincide with high SBD value. If the reality was that the two currencies were competing for scarce capital, we would expect to see the opposite relationship. Feast for steem would mean famine for SBD.

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That is to say, that 1.2m SBD market cap would be sufficient to buy more than 33% of all extant free steem.

True; people frequently forget that the value of all liquid Steem is actually quite low. The thing is, if I were forced to get rid of my SBD, I wouldn't buy Steem with it. I'd convert it all to USD. There's a reason I've got that value parked in SBD right now.

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Insightful point. I still think it is on balance pretty small, and it is too inward-looking to focus on SBD as a reason for insufficient demand. Most significant investment demand will have to come from the outside and SBD has no relevance at all there. Otherwise we are just chasing our tail.

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@smooth what do you think about this growth hack for Steemit? I wrote an article about a growth hack for steemit and it is not piickig up steem as I had hoped. Maybe you can support it? That would mean a lot to me.
https://steemit.com/steemit/@homosapiens/growth-hacking-for-steemit-how-we-can-reach-millions-with-simple-trick

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They store their wealth on the Steem blockchain at least. If we just kill the SBD project, people, who fear the price going down could buy BTC or other crypto with some click, or anything with a little more effort. The far they would go from Steem, the less chance they would come back to invest in it again.

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Exactly. The point is to keep people in the STEEM ecosystem, not drive them to other currencies. Sure, they can sell their STEEM for BTC, but then why would they come back to STEEM? You've already given them a better option (or only option, other than holding STEEM) and they'd be more than willing to capitalize on it.

I'm a PTS/AGS/BTS guy from way, way back . SBD is perhaps one of the best components of the Steem ecosystem. It needs to stay... but in my mind the biggest risk to Steem is that the anchoring store of value is tied to the FRN. This is not a good long term strategy for storing user's value as it puts all the eggs in one increasingly volatile basket. And... Trump.

My vote would be to go the other way - instead of reducing available assets in an effort to simply/boost pricing/whatever, pull the Bitshares DEX directly into the Steem ecosystem. Allow Steem users to store value in whatever way they choose via bitAssets. bitGOLD, bitSILVER, bitCNY, etc.

This will diversify the value contained within the Steem ecosystem and make the platform much more robust and resilient. The whole point of crypto is move away from the existing economic power structures - and tying Steem to the FRN is severely handicapping the ability to become a freestanding economy.

@dantheman

You can find my take/response here, if you're interested. It's long.

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I liked your post today and think we should keep the SBD

You mentioned you could peg it to other things in the future if needed such as Silver as well. This had some appeal as well. The idea that it doesn't need to sink with a specific currency and can be pegged to another is appealing.

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Yeah peg it to bitcoin and we are in business!💰

This was a good clarification.

I have mentioned this issue and other ones in my post for @thecryptofiend's contest "Have Your Say - The State of Steemit this Christmas."
Check it out if you care.

Thanks for the explanation. I think SBD will be useful for stability. I think there's a much more important topic to discuss about which is curation. Too many upvotes are done without having a look at the content. Which means that there's a judgement without knowing about the content which will lead to lower quality content. Example: I know that every steemsports post will be voted extraordinarily high which causes a flood of quick upvotes because the early bird will catch the worm. This way a sports blog monopoly grows while there is not much chance for competion. I'm not criticizing steemsports which I actually like. I just used it as a random example. I might not understand the curating system so tell me if I'm wrong. What can be done to reward quality based votes?

What three other currencies would you suggest pegging SBD to if the fed reserve crashed?

@dantheman This is an amazingly powerful post. I feel it was very simple, and broken down in a way that really explains how STEEM vs STEEM DOLLARS differ in the heavily fluctuating cryptomarket. This post in my opinion reveals, as @dantheman more or less pointed out, two majorly different ways in which a fellow Steemian may approach this platform with respect to STEEM and STEEM DOLLARS. (long term growth or short term burst growth.)
I look forward to any tips, comments, thoughts etc.
A huge thanks to my fellow Steemians who make this community beautiful!

Exactly SBD are a great USP and safety net, just because you haven't had a fire in years, doesn't mean you get rid of the fire exits.

Cg

Happy New Years!

Dan, thank you for all you've done, I'm sure you know that steemit had a very posiutive impact on many people including myself.

I hope that you are doing well, and I wish you all the best this 2017!

Thank you for your insight. Much appreciated. :-)

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The last was too technical for me. I think beyond the technical reasons, you have to see what are the use cases for average end users.

Thanks for the explanation. I think a lot of us in cryptocurrency have a limited experience of economic theory and confusion can arise because Steem has some quite different concepts to the standard models.

I've had to read this a few times to really understand the economics. The biggest take away I get from the post is that I'm wholly unqualified to make a decision on this. I would feel better delegating my vote to a proxy and let a smaller group of 'experts' debate and seek a consensus.

I think simplicity + very feasible use cases == mass adoption, so axing SBD might be the best route.

@dantheman - neither Steem nor the SteemDollar will fail :)

I have been on the phone dialing millionaire friends all day today, wishing them a merry christmas and to pitch steemit to them, and all I get in return is smiley-faces and thumbs up - they want to invest in this next generation social media system.

I am telling you the truth

And let me be blunt - as long as people like ME is dialing the telephone getting people IN - you will see no failure, so start planning for SUCCESS, because we - the ANGELS will make you RICHER then you could ever imagine you would ever be.

That being said - I call Norway from Peru, and even on Skype the cost of operation is heavy with no commissions (yet) - so @dantheman, please make sure that my witness @fyrst-witness is upvoted and in the top 19, and I will keep on keeping on - and you will never ever starve.

And also - Come on @steemspeak radio today or tonight - http://steemspeak.com and talk with us - we have had every witness and super-user on, it is a huge community of positive steemit-people with many talents, and we really want to hear you communicate with us in words uttered from a human voice, you are among friends!

We respect, love and treasure your persona, your work and your dedication, so expect to be welcomed as a KING when you arrive!

I am sure @sneak and @ned can testify to SteemSpeak being a very nice place where you feel welcome and at home.

Thank you for being awesome, you are an inspiration to more people then you recognize.

Sincerely and in complete friendliness
@fyrstikken

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I agree with you. No millionaire friend will ever be that naive to invest his millions in steem or steem dollars at this moment. There's too much risk. Anyway, everyone's got his or her own truth and we will learn if @fyrstikken is right. It's a game of credibility. Steemit will develop its own dynamic due to the market's choices. Steemit's future will be it's community and their believe in it rather than investors from outside. At least until steemit will have grown much more. This is my personal opinion.

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@berniesanders / @nextgencrypto (same person) - what is wrong with you? Why are you constantly working AGAINST people who are working FOR the Steemit-Platform and building COMMUNITY and bringing INVESTORS in????

Do you want STEEMIT to FAIL? Is that your plan? Is that what you want? Because it sure looks like that is your agenda! - Prove me wrong.

I have seen how you have been flagging/down-voting people for months - STOP IT!

You are one of STEEMIT´s biggest LIABILITIES the way you behave, you should be ASHAMED of yourself!!

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@berniesanders - I am self interested in the success of Steemit. Self-motivated, - you "whale-guys" don´t even vote for my witness even when it is spitting out 75% of the rewards to projects like @SteemPowerTwins (25%) and http://steemcharts.com (25%) and @contentjunkie (25%) for administrating - the remaining 25% is held by me for other steemit promoting causes - so how can you say that I am only working for myself when I clearly am paying out of my own pocket for everything I do?

You are like a big child with no friends that like to ruin peoples sand-castles on the beach, and nobody like that kid.

I advise you to grow up and take on some higher moral standards because you are making a big fool out of yourself and everybody can see that.

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I'm interested in Steemit, too.

And that's why I don't feel that infomercial type posts like the one you made serve the best interest of Steemit.

I've worked in sales and marketing for several years now, and I can say that even the way your post was stylized will turn people away from a platform like this, and will definitely not attract investors. Steemit needs less stuff like that.

Add in the fact that I don't even think you're being honest, for reasons stated above.

Everything about it looks dishonest, from top to bottom.

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@fyrstikken Seriously. Berniesanders is far from the only one reacting to your behaviour and btw it's not like you havn't used the flag yourself when you wanted to silence someone. (see me for example)

Such a rich person with so many "millionaire friends" and yet your mentality is to beg to be upvoted.

You think Steemit would fail without you? Then Steemit would have been BUILT to fail and it would need serious rebuilding. ASAP.

I see no higher moral standards, only some guy pretending to be seriously interested in the wellbeing of this community and treating it like another pump and dump.

"I am sure . . . can testify to SteemSpeak being a very nice place where you feel welcome and at home."

Let me testify: I left the server because I'm tired with being part of the crowd supporting your childish behaviour.

There are certainly many sides to all men, but you're no hero and you can stop pretending you are one.

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@the-ego-is-you

I see no higher moral standards, only some guy pretending to be seriously interested in the wellbeing of this community and treating it like another pump and dump.

You guys keep chipping away at that mask, sooner or later others will see what's behind it as well. Great comment, spot on! :)

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You should be ashamed of yourself @berniesanders. @Fyrstikken does deserve any of this crap! The only thing you are good for is to help Steemit deal with a troll!

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Why wont you join radio and talk about your accusations?

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Why won't you go on the Infowars show and explain to Alex Jones how he is wrong? (Maybe you would)

Same thing. A huge waste of energy and time that would end up driving new listeners to his server.

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Well if people could be guaranteed they would have an audience with Alex Jones on-air I think many might actually do so.

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Why would you flag his comment? smh

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I went on his radio show yesterday and just because I said Pizzagate is a waste of time and a distraction from reality, he started screaming at me and calling me a pedophile, even threaten my life.

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holy crap.

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He has had outbursts like that many times before. It happened to me and likely to many others.

Note; I can't say in this particular case because I wasn't there at the time, but many times these episodes had nothing to do with "two sided misunderstandings". They came virtually out of nowhere from an extremely unstable individual.

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I agree with you that the comment came off a bit harsh cause I remember when it was made.. it even threw me off.. but I believe it was a misunderstanding on both sides

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I thought you two were in cahoots?

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to @tuck-fheman
I am cool with him, and I have voted for him as a witness. He does have issues, but I'm able to look pass his faults and focus on his benefits, he really does love steemit and want the best for steem, so he is ok for those reasons. One thing is I don't trust running that discord software on my pc, as I fear it's setup in a way that could lead to me getting hacked.

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Sharing scammy stuff like this is irresponsible, because it encourages people to invest into something, based on things that are not real.

If you're millionaire friends are coming in to invest, then you don't need to scam other people to buy in in order to make a return, you can just count on your millionaire friends.

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Flagged as completely off topic, spammish promotion unrelated to the topic.

Did you actually have useful to add about SBD, @fyrstikken or did you just come to this post purely to self-promote?

I'm sad to see who is upvoting the comment as well. It says a lot about how the stake is distributed poorly, with large amounts of it being held by people with poor judgment and limited experience dealing with spam problems and thread hijacking, or alternately are voting on some basis other than substance and adding value to the platform (for example personal agendas for or against certain people).

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It just would have been a comment. It could have floated to the bottom. Instead, now it is a full drama. That is not good for Steem. It keeps getting bigger because everyone wants to pile on. It got voted up, because it got voted down. There was no reason for any of this to hi-jack the post.

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It was upvoted by one of the largest if not the largest stakeholders in the entire system before it was downvoted. It wasn't floating down to any bottom.

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That's not what the timestamps say.

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You are mistaken. The votes to which I refer took place at 19:29. The flag took place at 19:49. source

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Flagged due to off-topic.

Great post vote and resteemed.
Gran post te voto y te hago resteemed
Follow me please:
https://steemit.com/introduceyourself/@germanaure/hello-steemians-introduceyourself