Sexual Click Bait?
(A click bait picture?)
I have really enjoyed all the comments and feedback to my More Thoughts on Women, Oppression and Porn post. Thanks again to @veralynn for inspiring it with her post here.
Most of the comments to my post were very thoughtful, even those from folks who disagreed passionately with me. I'm grateful for the debate and dialogue. That's what Steemit is all about!
Only a few comments were snarky, but I liked some of the snarky ones best since they perfectly illustrated the very point I was trying to make--that women are shamed whenever they seek to use their inherent sexual power to their advantage, especially their economic advantage, in ways that are not controlled by men. This comment from @cogliostro was particularly helpful in making my point:
cogliostro (6) · 13 hours ago
My normally sweet girlfriend complained about SteemIt being open on my screen, calling it "the women spreading their legs site again". I get that you're going for max clickbait, but come the hell on. How low can you go.
Please make the broad with her legs spread go away from the top of my SteemIt feed.
To be clear, the image he was referencing was this one:
(The controversial photo of @steemed-open)
It was this simple image of a sexually powerful women that inspired his rant. Notice the accusation of "click bait", a term he used derogatorily, implying that there is something unseemly about a woman making money from her sex appeal. (Cindy gets the SBD from many of the posts on my blog, btw, ). Just to drive the attempted shaming home, he snarked "how low can you go?" (emphasis added), and he referred to my lovely wife derogatorily as a "broad." His disdain was readily apparent, no?
But...why? Why was he so incensed or perturbed about a simple picture? Was he just embarrassed that his wife caught him staring? After all, it's a picture of much more than a crotch, but even assuming it wasn't, what's so threatening about a clothed female crotch? Men "manspread" all the time without shame. Women can't?
The obvious fact is, every image in every post is intended as "click bait". Some are just more effective than others. Every image is carefully selected to draw the reader in, or at least it should be according to the most successful authors here on Steemit. Provocative headlines serve the same purpose. And yet its generally only sexually powerful ones in general, and of sexually powerful women in particular, that are shamed so. If I had posted an image of a man in the same position, would he have been so shamed? Of course not. Doesn't anyone wonder why?
With that thought in mind, I responded to @cogliostro as follows:
[-]sean-king (8) · 13 hours ago
Ever heard of "manspreading". Tell your wife it's not just for men anymore.
And that "broad" is my wife. Do you regularly call women 'broads', or just sexually empowered ones? And do you even know what the term means?
I chose the image purposefully and not just as click bait. If you read my post you would get the symbolism.
At this point, a whale decided to intervene in defense of @cogliostro. @rainman replied to my comments above as follows (and then promptly down voted my entire post, costing me several hundred dollars:
[-]rainman (7) · 11 hours ago
It's still clickbait and a cheap trick that you didn't really need in this post. You could've at least used a more SFW picture as the leading picture and included the current picture further down, that way we wouldn't all have to see your wife spreading her legs everytime we open steemit.com..
Once again, notice the attempt at shaming. "Clickbait" again. "Cheap trick". Implying that the picture was almost NSFW.
My questions for @cogliostro and @rainman, or any readers who agree with them, are simply these: Ignoring religious sensibilities for a moment (I'm not interested in debating anyone on the basis of religious teachings), what makes a picture of a sexually powerful woman "low" or "cheap"? Why do you resent it more than say, an equally appealing "click bait" image of...anything else. Is it not the fact that the effect of these images is so predictable? Isn't that what you truly resent--the power of the image and its undeniable influence over the masses and, if you are honest, even over you? Isn't that really why you derogatorily call it "click bait", because even you couldn't resist? Isn't it your own shame that's the real problem?
Of course it is. It's the feminine power, and your inability to defend against it, that's so threatening. It's that which you seek to contain and diminish and mold to suit and serve you. After all, it's almost like women have an unfair advantage over you, right? Your scorn and attempted shaming are thinly-veiled attempts to deflect attention from this obvious truth, and to discourage women from exploiting this power in the future.
Well friends, fortunately or unfortunately (depending upon where you stand), @steemed-open and I are pretty shameless. So, you can expect much more so-called "click bait" in the future. Feel free to downvote it if you feel so compelled. But if you do, I'd at least appreciate a rational and thoughtful explanation as to why. Let's have a constructive and respectable debate, okay? No, you don't owe me that, it's just common courtesy. Plus, it will benefit the Steemit ecosystem overall. But, if you can't articulate a rational and thoughtful explanation for your down vote, then perhaps you might revisit your own prejudices and biases before making silly comments and vindictively down voting.
In any event, I won't (usually) post images merely as "click bait". Even when I post just an image without much commentary, there will usually some important symbolism, or artistic merit (I hope), for those with eyes to see it. "Click bait" implies leading with something enticing and then failing to deliver anything substantive. Click bait is just a tease. But based upon the nearly 130 mostly thoughtful comments on my post linked above, I think I delivered much more than a tease. And I'll strive to continue doing so going forward.
I thought the fact that it was an original image of a real steemit user made by another steemit user puts it in a different category than simply using a model.
In this case, sean was demonstrating the power of his opinion in a very obvious way.
It was borderline NSFW but was also done with a flair of art and completely relevant.
I agree with your response @dantheman I feel the picture was not obscene and for the girlfriend to see the picture and immediately jump to the conclusion that it must be some sort of sexual gimmick to gain money proves @sean-king point. There should be discussions about women, porn, and objectification that do not need to be put in the #nsfw category. And since the photo was original and the user is a real steemit user that in my mind changes the overall tone of the piece. Any time you cover topics that may be taboo, there will be a multitude of opinions. I think you did a great job and did not deserved to be downvoted for what you wrote and how you portrayed it.
Hopefully more "taboo" topics can be covered as I have seen religion show up in a series of posts and feel that steemit could be an interesting place for two opposing viewpoints to post about a topic (abortion, assisted suicide, death penalty) and have readers understand both viewpoints from the authors and be able to respectfully debate one another. At least talking about the topics without screaming, shouting, or hatred will be a vast improvement over anywhere else a topic like this could be covered.
With the new reputation system, it encourages people to be respectful, but not necessarily be pc. Steemit is amazing because we can all be ourselves and hopefully grow to love and care about others regardless of their beliefs and viewpoints.
I enjoy looking at things from a lot of angles. Not necessarily devil's advocate, but I see both pro con middle and in between and try to put myself in the shoes of how men and women may view this as much as I can.
yes totally true, but we have different angles maybe than our girlfriends when it comes to eye candy no?? ; - ) i think you and your girlfriend may not share the same sort of view point on this sort of content for obvious reasons !! But yes totally sure that a detailed and intelligent discussion on such matters is a great idea to alleviate such concerns affecting your couple !! i think like most real men, would put my girlfriends wishes before my own personal sexual impulses, which i think to be fair is what porn sites mainly feed off !! My last word is that this photo is certainly erotic and yes exciting but she is dressed so the rest is all in the mind !!
i think women especially those that we live with and tell that we love them are somewhat offended when they see perhaps an image of this nature on our desktop or browser !! It threatens them at many levels as i guess they realize that the man they love, feed and hold can at any time look at or even find and meet a newer brighter model ! Clearly the Internet and it extremely diverse search criteria permit a Pandorian box of possibilities for any male blessed with two eyes in his head and fingers with which to type his desired goal !! you can hardly blame them can you?
Absolutely not! I agree with you, but I feel like this is something you can explain to someone you love and have a meaningful talk about it. It's not like most people are sneaking to steemit for a fix or to "cheat" on their wife with pornography (if one believes that is cheating). But I also think it is important to have a discussion about and offer the option to turn off certain types of content that may not necessarily be considered nsfw.
well i never said that particularly it was a site like Steemit which is the problem, more like PornHub, much too much eye candy there for the tastes of most aspiring girlfriends no?
Thanks. I value your opinion on this more than you know.
point for dan
This whole thread has created quite a few interesting discussions. My business partner @brettflorio agrees with your goal to empower women, but not with your mechanism for getting there as he sees it as being a little too simplistic. He thinks motivational psychology with its intrinsic motivators trumping extrinsic motivators is far more scientifically grounded than evolutionary psychology, thus more valuable for determining truth, as he sees it. I'm trying to convince him to engage the debate here, but he's not the type to do so online with people he doesn't know personally.
Either way, I'm certainly enjoying the discussion, and it's been interesting talking it through with @corinnestokes as well. I think she's still trying to figure out her position on it. I'm hoping the four of us can hang out over a meal the next time you're in Nashville or we head out your direction.
As for those who don't like seeing a post, maybe we could build in a cookie / browser based only (i.e. off blockchain) solution for hiding certain posts? Facebook provides for this, and I think new users might expect it going forward. Not a full mute of an author (though that's important too), but just a "Yeah, I don't want to see this one in my feed" idea.
I'd love to hear your partner's thoughts, and Corrine's also. And Cindy and I are definitely up for dinner sometime! And the ability for folks to hide specific posts would be awesome!
I think most of those accusations come from jealousy and envy over a successful post. If there was no payout, you wouldn't see that kind of reaction. People are trying to find an excuse why the post was successful.
I draw the parallel when I do facebook ads. If I have a choice between 2 pictures, I am going to choose the picture that is going to give me the highest CTR. Doing otherwise would be shooting myself in the foot.
The only exception is if the picture has absolutely nothing to do with where the person would end up. Clickbait is okay as long as you deliver value at the end of it. Bait and switch on the other hand is something else entirely.
Thanks. I value your opinion and I'm glad that I very much agree!
Dinner will be on us!
Love the "hide a post" idea.
I don't see an issue with using whatever means are available to make your point. Whether it is humor, sexuality, or just brains why should anyone be ashamed to use their inherent talents to get ahead?
Exactly. Use what you can to get them in the door. But you need actual substance to get upvotes, especially on steemit. "Click bait" is fine, because it will only be successful if it's followed up with a useful message.
" then perhaps you might revisit your own prejudices and biases "
what are your own prejudices and biases?
are you aware of them?
I know mine
Indeed I do. For one, I prefer my conclusions to be rooted in science rather than religion, politics or social norms.
"Of course it is. It's the feminine power, and your inability to defend against it, that's so threatening. It's that which you seek to contain and diminish and mold to suit and serve you. After all, it's almost like women have an unfair advantage over you, right?"
Yes, right :)
Let's have a constructive and respectable debate, okay?
Okay,
1)Female sexual empowerment finds a limit to female sexual empowerment when males become rationally aware of such power. Its a kind of power that works marvels if nobody talks about it.
"No, you don't owe me that, it's just common courtesy. Plus, it will benefit the Steemit ecosystem overall. But, if you can't articulate a rational and thoughtful explanation for your down vote"
Upvoted this post like 5 minutes ago
"what makes a picture of a sexually powerful woman "low" or "cheap"? "
its a low play because it exploits the most basic structures Sean
By that definition, all markets and economic systems are "low".
Everyone has a line drawn in the sand - of what they find tasteful or distasteful. Some peoples lines are nearer to the "puritan" zone than others, and as long as they are simply getting offended, and not legislating against it, that's their prerogative.
While offence is indeed taken rather than given, the provocateur should understand that there may be social consequences for crossing peoples lines. Being entitled to do something is not necessarily enough of a good reason to do something. I may be entitled to attend a funeral wearing nothing but a thong, but by most reasonable definitions, that would be a dick move, and let's face it, a pretty "cheap" way to get attention.
So in my opinion, you should use whatever language or imagery as you see fit, but don't expect it to be to everyones tastes. I for one find spread-eagle women rather adorable. Dass-juss-mee-tho.