@heretickitten What is beyond evolution?

in #science8 years ago (edited)

This is my response to @heretickitten's incredibly thought provoking blog posting, What is the final product of evolution?
To understand my answer, you must first read hers.
I was forced to take to my blog to respond, because my answer is a bit umm, lengthy...

@heretickitten Upvote to Join the cult?

You of all people? Little miss individuality? ;)

I'm a futurist and I'm also a transhumanist. I believe that the future actually looks a whole lot different than most people believe right now. I don't have a crystal ball. But I do try to day dream a few years out with reasonable accuracy regarding major tech and science developments.
What I see when I do this is a whole lot different than one might expect.

So here is how I see this going. Bear with me, it's pretty long.

What you are calling Moore's law isn't really Moore's law. Moore was remarking on transistor density alone. But the chart you are showing is actually demonstrating increases in information processing capability & information processing density.

Our universe, what ever else it may be, is computational in nature. It is most likely not a simulation (sorry matrix fans). However it does compute at it's most fundamental levels and I am of the firm belief that it's these computations that drive the entirety of our physicality, i.e. the laws of physics.

The computational limit of the universe is something that we are nowhere near approaching yet. We're still on the bottom rung of the ladder.

But you have to ask, what the hell is actually going on there?

What's happening is that our ability to process information is growing at an exponential rate. As we do this our machines get smaller, more intimate. The simple fact is we already spend more time with our devices than our loved ones. But humans as a species are adapting to this in remarkable ways.

Still, the predictions made about the march of progress must be examined on short time scales to understand the longer timescales.

Compare predictions from 1954

To what computers of 2004 were actually like...

And just 10 years later...

And now realize even that device is seriously outdated by today's standards.

We have already arrived at the point where Commercial Neural Prosthetics are available for purchase and implant. Wait that's today??? (yes it is)

Here is tomorrow...

Even that image is not exactly the future. As it turns out, the particular nanobots pictured above are here now. However they are task specific and are directed using magnetic fields and aren't smart enough yet to operate autonomously.

However this does demonstrate that we are either the last generation to know death, or more likely the first generation to live forever. Death itself is infact just another disease we will eliminate, like smallpox.

But let's forget the edgier stuff and just say that human life expectancy grows at it's present rate. Let's also say that information processing capacity and more importantly that information processing density, continue to grow at current rates. No brand new physics, no huge breakthroughs, just what we have now and our present trajectory is maintained.

Even right now we are "homo sapiens" transitioning towards a new species called "homo cyber". The moment we log into the internet and send our thoughts out to others, or otherwise use technology as a vital part of our life, we are experiencing the first steps towards this new species.

Yet at current rates, in 15 perhaps 20 years you will go to the Dr to get the last shot you will ever need. Reconfigurable nano tech that is capable of proactively detecting threats, eliminating them, healing and repairing damage but perhaps more importantly... Optimizing your systems.

This is full fledged transition to "homo cyber".
As your tissues age and fail, this technology begins to replace those tissues, not with new tissue, but with something optimized. Bit by bit, piece by piece, your tissues are replaced. Perhaps over the course of 50 years. As this occurs, information processing capabilities increase. Your mind becomes able to communicate your thoughts, desires and intentions much more efficiently. Essentially you become "wired in", or better yet "tuned in" to the rest of humanity. You begin to develop a type of empathy or even telepathy. Mind to mind communication, as well as instant access to the entirety of human knowledge.

After about 50 to 100 years your last organic cell fails due to senescence

It doesn't matter how long it takes because this technology makes you functionally immortal from the day you get the shot. It's unlikely you'll notice or even care, the day the last cell dies. Perhaps though it will become a human tradition to celebrate that day, like we do birthdays now.

Either way, you are still you. But you are something more, something better. More durable, more intelligent, faster, quicker, smarter etc.

The minute you transcend mortality, you become a new species called "homo superior".
Since you are functionally immortal, and the information that is you is now well mapped and understood by the machinery that replaced your flesh. Machinery under direct control of your own will. Your intelligence has become truly substrate independent.

You are pure information capable of running on multiple substrates and more importantly you understand how to control those substrates in the same way you might drive a car now.

You have not yet transcended physicality, but you are no longer "homo sapien" or even "homo cyber". The minute that last bit of meat fell away you became "homo superior" a completely new species.

It suddenly becomes as easy to travel to another planet as it is to log into your favorite MMORPG today.

You are able to live in and experience other worlds. Experience them in their full reality and in your full physicality. Yet you are optimized for the particular environment you are in at the time. Similar to an avatar, but there is more.

This is possible because what actually defines consciousness, appears to be a measurable quantity called Phi. Phi is a measure of how much each component in a complex system is "aware" of other parts. Your mind is right now only "aware" of the pieces you call "self". But just like you can "sorta sense" when you get a text a few seconds before it arrives. You will be able to be fully sensate within multiple additional machines and you will do this automatically. It will just be as natural as breathing.

This means you can literally copy yourself. Your essence, your personality into a myriad of locations and synthesize the information from these locations simultaneously. There is no single seat of consciousness. You have become a multiply conscious, distributed intelligence.

This is NOT a hive mind. It's you, your consciousness, your will. But you are in many places at once. How many? As many as you choose to! Multiple avatars working in a coordinated but distributed fashion. Perhaps even "joint avatars", for example you are trying to solve a heavy physics problem but you don't quite have the basics to fully comprehend it. You simply run a joint consciousness with someone who does have that information and you borrow their knowledge and intellect.

I imagine that stage of humanity looks a lot like this...


Only without the antisocial and homicidal tendencies. ;)

I'm of the firm belief that this happens long before we start making trips to the stars and most likely there won't ever be any sort of "singularity" or single mainframe where everyone is stored. No matroska brain, no matrix.

To travel to the stars will require new physics, yes. But I'm of the opinion that there exists brand new physics just laying in wait for us to find them when we're ready.

The laws of nature keep presenting themselves as a brick wall. Yet every time we examine the bricks carefully, we find they are made of fine crystal. We shatter the glass wall and we find something new and something more fundamental laying in wait to be discovered.

I believe that we will shortly find that FTL communication is in fact possible and that it doesn't do the paradoxical bullshit we think it will. It's just not possible at our current level of understanding. Yet our understanding, our knowledge, our intellect and our ability to process information is growing at an exponential rate. 2 orders of magnitude more and we are fully "homo cyber", 3 perhaps 4 orders of magnitude and we look back to find we are now fully "homo superior".

Yet for no reason that I can really verbalize, I look and I see a step beyond homo superior. A being that is beyond physicality as we understand it.

One that can directly utilize the fundamental laws of physics by force of will alone. A being that exists within the substrate of the universe itself and is able to effect it's own will; Manifesting it with no more mental effort than that of a daydream. Pure human will and intellect, personified into something much greater than we are right now.

We have no word for this except deity, or god.
So here's another word for it... homo transcendent

As far out there as this sounds, this is what I see us becoming in no more than 10,000 years at current rates of growth. I also think it very likely that nearly every conscious being reading this, will be there when it occurs. It might even be the correct answer to the question What is the great filter?

What's beyond that?
I don't know!
I can barely even fathom this far!

I can hazard a guess though.

I think there is a reason that humans appear to be hard wired for spirituality. Despite the fact that I am someone who does not believe in religion. I have to think that beyond the so called deity phase we will eventually undergo, that we will emerge from the multiverse itself like a dragon hatching from an egg. But into what? I don't know. I do think there is a reason that certain symbols are universal in human consciousness; meaning the same thing to all people, in all places, at all times. But what that reason is? It is beyond me. I just have a hunch the answer lays in that direction.

Now obviously, any of this would take more computing capacity than exists on the entirety of the earth at this time. Assuming our information processing density increases at it's current rate; Our road to fully realized homo superior is only 4 or 5 orders of magnitude more than we have now, but even if it's 10 orders of magnitude more, that still isn't very much when you factor in exponential growth patterns. By way of comparison, to reach the maximum information processing density of the universe is 32 orders of magnitude and we will have been running on the substrate of the universe, i.e. become homo transcendant long before we hit that limit, assuming it even is a limit.

I know it all sounds like a pipe dream...
Yet the cellphone I'm dictating this on, already has 2 orders of magnitude more computing capacity than the entire earth did at the time that first picture was taken. (yes I'm aware the picture is a fake, computers weren't even that advanced back then)

So upvote this and follow me if YOU want to join OUR cult!

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This is just wow! While I admit I've not thought this out nearly as thorough as your post, I'm definitely on the same page with what I have.

Couple questions that came to mind:

Do you think everybody with progress equally (as if given the shot on the same day) fast or far?

Do you foresee anyone getting stuck (in escapism) in certain stages or even try to reject some 'benefits?

When 'immortality' is achieved the current paradigm of population (and controls) is a concern. Do you see this causing population explosion, using resources to advance more humans, expanding out from Earth for room and more resources type of pattern?
Or do you foresee a plateau where the maximum numbers of consciousness's exist?

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I am not very technically minded but I find this subject fascinating and it opens up so many possibilities. I think at any given moment we as a species are at a fork in the road in regards to our technology and we tend to take the path that the money chooses for us, for better or for worse. What really makes this interesting is all the different choices and what their outcomes would be.

I really enjoyed this :)

@gonzo I think your recent story, dark and everything else that it was. Is pointing out a possible stage of our evolution.

You many think you aren't technically minded. But in my opinion what you did there was provide a POV from a creature existing in the world I explained in here. In otherwords I think you managed to predict the future in a way, so bravo.

Here is how I see this working, and yes I'm going to need to do a blog on it...
There are several paths humanity can take from here. My vision explained above, is conditional. It is positivist and rather utopian.

I don't think we can reach that and still remain human. At least not human as we know it now. There are certain universal aspects of the human condition that will prevent that if . At some level it will require a purging of certain desires. Specifically the desires for manipulation, control, domination. These all have a root in the same place, insecurity.

Insecurity, is a type of fear and it will need to be replaced with a fearless desire to learn and to cooperate. If we don't do that, then once we reach the stage were we are multiply conscious and distributed, we will need cryptographic guarantees in order to keep our thoughts, our own. Otherwise known as a blockchain :)

Otherwise things could easily devolve into a hive mind, which is really the worst of all possible options other than extinction.

This is a repost of a comment from the original #payitforward post, as instructed by @williambanks


Really though, I don't know why I haven't participated until now. I think I saw this when it was first posted, I liked the concept so I upvoted it, but I was in a different mindset back then. @williambanks, man, everything you said here really resonated with me the second time I read it. It's a nice way of working around the system that's only giving opportunities to some.

I've been quietly making a concerted effort to leave heartfelt comments to posts that I find interesting. So heartfelt that a lot of my comments have the same length as a lot of short posts. Some of them acknowledge those comments, but a majority can't even be bothered to leave a response. You can see from my posts that I try to be very encouraging, but it's pretty disheartening when the comments I leave fall on deaf ears.

This initiative is pretty great and I'm kicking myself for not actively participating sooner. I leave thoughtful comments and I reply to every comment in my posts, but the reciprocity has been dismal. It seems I've been trying to ram through a brick wall when all this time there's a segment of Steemit that's openly interacting with each other. I'm diving head first into this and I hope that it would reap the promised results.

I wish I could edit my old posts to add #payitforward, but I'm leaving some links here in case anyone is interested in reading them:

I didn't want to link all of my posts, but I retroactively place everything under #payitforward . All I ever wanted is to promote interaction, and I hope this is finally the avenue where I can do that.

Thanks for providing the community with this opportunity!

@jedau Great and thanks! My voting power is recovering slowly, but I will go to all of these throughout the day.

For anyone who's curious as to what this is all about. @jedau is a great commentor and someone who will gladly check out your posts as well. Last night he was asking about #payitforward so I explained he could do it retroactively in my blog.
https://steemit.com/steemit/@williambanks/pay-it-forward-a-better-way-to-enjoy-steemit-and-find-great-content

I encourage everyone to check it out!

Hey @williambanks, just wanted to say thanks! My first #payitforward post is going great, I'm looking to replying to all the comments in a bit, then heading over and commenting on different #payitforward blogs. It's a great initiative you provided the community and I hope it catches on with everyone. I hope it becomes so ingrained that #payitforward, wouldn't be a tag anymore but the only approach the community has when it comes to interacting with each other's posts.

@jedau Thanks and you're absolutely welcome! Really glad to see posts and exposure for the movement.

Now that I think about it though, I'm not really sure how many of those comments came from #payitforward, surely there are some votes. But the comments hmm it remains to be seen. I still believe in the potential of the initiative though. It's just the first post, so we'll see as time goes by. I haven't even heard your thoughts on the post lol I've commented on quite a few #payitforward blogs, haven't really heard back from anyone.

I've been following the transhumanist movement for about a decade now and you're the only transhumanist I've located on Steem. Looking forward to following your content. Good post!

@randr10 Well thanks! There's an entire hashtag full of it from all sorts of compelling authors with a myriad of opinions though. I have the tag up in my response. Click it to find more of us.

The first generation to live forever would be great!

We're not able to get rid of all genetic mutations that is accumulating during the life, aren't we? It's around 100-120 years that we can expect with a further biotech development, i think.

But yeah

Thoughtful and provocative post. I'm enjoying your perspective. Following you now.

Hi William, see this post trending in the feminism tag:
https://steemit.com/life/@feminism/the-evolution-of-a-mother

ENJOY

Thank you William, I just put my post in the #payitforward tag,
is this how its done?
I want to talk about feminism, women, men and families

Yes thats fine. Remember #payitforward is a specific invitation open to anyone. It makes it ok to promote your blog in the authors blog.

@feminism I did, but good content, deserves a well thought out and considered reply. You should have that now.

so, what do you think of it? give me your feedback,
what do you think of mothers and their relation to evolution?
you give vera your feedback but not me? :)

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