Chinese Pseudoscience 8: Cold water is POISONOUS

in #science6 years ago


'China's go-to beverage'

I figure, after dipping our toes into the darkness of TCM in the last few weeks, it was a good time to take a step back and touch on something a little warmer. Specifically, warm water. But first, if you haven't had your mind blown by how ridiculous Traditional Chinese Medicine is, here are the last 3 episodes:

The hot water myth

Unless you've been to China you will probably be unaware of this odd phenomenon, but the Chinese believe that drinking straight, hot water is good for your, and us broken, corrupted westerners should not be drinking iced water no matter how hot the day.

This has oftentimes been the bane of my life, when it's a hot, 40C summer's day and you can't go to the nicest of restaurants and get a cool glass or jug, having instead to resort to hot water, or beer.

The belief here is that cold water causes cancer and cramps, whereas hot or warm water wakes up your digestive system, increases blood circulation, detoxifies your body and reduces cramps. Whether you're on your period or you got your feet wet in the rain, sore throat or bad sleep, hot water is the answer.

Historical viewpoint

Naturally, this fantastical idea has a point of origin. Back in the day, or 'in ancient times' I suppose at 400BC, hot water was something of a luxury, and ice was even more of a luxury with the notable lack of freezers.

However, scholars of the past were a lot more savvy than those of the modern day and simply considered both hot and cold water as something un-special in and of themselves. They basically concluded that hot water would warm your body up and cold water would cool it down. Fascinating.

Of course, for the plebs among China, being too hot was less troublesome than freezing to death so there was a lot of emphasis on keeping warm, reserving any hot water they could generate for the weak, elderly and pregnant. Meanwhile, royalty would enjoy the iced drinks when it suited them, since they'd just sent a special team of slaves or servants up north to get some.

The source of the water myth?

To help rumour spread, a cholera outbreak hit Shanghai when 1.5 million refugees flooded in after the Taiping rebellion in the 1860's (a story for another post), and noting that the problems were spreading north and not south, everybody jumped on the fact that the wealthy southern half of China drank more hot water, even though the actual reason for the spread turned out to be boats shipping deliveries up north, not south.

So there's no historical foundation to stand on here, but what does Traditional Chinese Medicine say?

The 'Philosophy'

Well, later on there was a public guideline release for people rightly informing them that boiling water kills off the bacteria, preventing such horrible epidemics from reoccurring. But the horrible, horrible Mao era spread the idea more arbitrarily (See first post on Mao's historical role in TCM.

Nowadays TCM took over this idea and nonchalantly threw the idea of Qi onto it. Because Hot is opposite of Cold, therefore there's a 'balance' aspect... Yin and Yang! Totally makes sense and therefore is definitely true!

You see, in Chinese Medicine and more general belief practice, hot and cold are not necessarily regarding physical temperature.

  • 上火 (Shang Huo), or 'on fire' is a medical state of too much 'yang' and not enough 'yin'. Your energy is too masculine. This supposedly causes things like heartburn, inflammation, fever or other hot-type ailments.

  • 着凉 (Zhao Liang), or 'taking cold' is, naturally, too much yin, not enough yang - your energy is too feminine (because again, boy is opposite to girl so it totally makes sense). You can probably guess some of these ailments; flu, cold, cold feet/bad circulation... you get the idea.

So it's not a stretch for TCM advocates to jump on the similarity between temperatures, metaphorical and literal, to conjure up some medical routine.

The Science

Though these beliefs can be solved with common sense (Water doesn't remain cold after drinking it), I'd like to dig deeper anyway.

I think it's fair to say that water has a lot of health benefits, regardless of what 'western' or eastern medicine says. Drinking water tends to keep one alive, for a start, but a nice steamy bath or shower can work wonders to relax you, open up your blocked nose and so much more. That's no mystery.

But there are many unforeseen problems that I'd love to go into:

Hot Water

A miracle cure!

It turns out that hot water can cause cancer! Hear me out. In a press release by WHO (World Health Organization), it was reported that, during a study looking at potential carcinogenic properties of coffee, they found that the water itself can cause cancer of the oesophagus, if sufficiently hot enough to burn the throat and damage the tissue (at or above 65°C - a hot cuppa). Coffee was fine, though.

But ok, cancer is mostly out of sight out of mind, who cares, right? But very real issues arise in our daily lives. In more developed countries and cities, drinking from the tap is typically safe, cheap and tasty. But even here in Shanghai, tap water is a big no no. To make matters worse, hot water actually increases health risks as the hot water increases the rate contaminants like lead and copper being dissolved, due to the higher energy in hot water.

If nothing else, you might burn your tongue, and if you burn your tongue, you're probably burning your innards, too.

Now, although hot water can indeed improve menstrual cramps and so forth, so can cold water, or just water in general. There's no evidence I can find that cold water can cause any cramp issues or otherwise. If anybody has found some feel free to post it in the comments where I can pick it apart. However:

Cold Water

Deadly

There are some issues with cold water. For example, cold water can make your nasal mucus thicker, according to a single study of just 15 people. Damn.

Cold water can actually cause cancer too after a hot meal, becau-- oh wait that's a myth, too.

More seriously, people already suffering from migraines may see migraines triggered from the consumption of cold water. Otherwise, that's it really.

Like with @haejin's predictions, people are quick to forget things that don't confirm their beliefs, and quick to remember those that do; it was that evil glass of cold water I had 3 days ago.

So...

You'd think at this point if cold water had an effect, people would have noticed around the world by now, not just in China. Unless of course, we're implying the Asian race is inherently weaker and can't handle a glass of cold water? Even so, this is a kind of God of the Gaps argument, forever searching for that unfalsifiable point that you can stand on victoriously.

And if you really are seeing a correlation, it's likely because you have learnt to believe it. Placebo. Again.

Alright that's it for now. I might take another dark turn in next week's episode. There's a lot of darkness in TCM, after all. Thanks for reading!

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All Images CC0 Licensed

References: IARC Monographs evaluate drinking coffee, maté, and very hot beverages
| Cold water is not cancerous | Cold water is poisonous! Note how this website is quick to sell you related products | A very small study showing a very benign benefit of hot water that we already knew | Hot & Cold Chinese Philosophy | Hot water history

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The constant, world-wide flows of mis-information, all stemming from pieces that are in fact correct, but all taken way further out of meaning as people selfishly interpret what they think it means (often based on how left or right their brains and politics flow), and then they push their versions of the stories/facts onto generations that follow under their power/reign.

I enjoy delving into all this stuff across the world, each place has a view or belief or two that is based on something real/fact, but that has escaped the next generations true understanding for one reason or a million others... And it's mind blowing when looking at each detailed version of the same stories with magnified eyes, breaking apart the facts from the myths... and yet the most baffling, interesting part for me, is the aftermath.

The part where you can reprove where why and how all this stuff came about, you can use modern science to prove and show people what it actually means and therefore, what they should actually take from it whilst leaving the bullshit and unnatural explainations behind... and yet! most people are still able to just shrug it off, disbelieve you and science over their own weird concept of something so bizarre and unnatural... and i like to delve into the 'whys?' of this part. Why are people so afraid to change, themselves or their minds? ... i enjoy these posts, you always make me think :D

ahh the beauty of our complex and often dumb brains :D a great web to look around :D

(Thanks for the upvotes btw guys! Most ever comment amount so far :D ooo hehe nice one)

Well, i like drinking cold water, but the saying is cold water is not good for you in some sense. At least, biologist won't incubate cell with ice water right? It wont be too supersize you will induce stress on cell if you put them in extreme condition, like very cold or very hot. Chinese always said 中庸之道, taking a balance, just like your "Tai Chi" diagram, mixing both side to get a equilibrium and not to go in to one extreme.

State without rigorous prove doesn't mean it is wrong. It just didn't prove it appropriately. You took an paper with a study of just 15 people. I view "this" as a result from the evolution of Chinese's practice and experience over many years. Tradition and practice could be wrong, but there is always a reason to keep it to the next generation

I think the mistake being represented is cold water vs drinking cold water. Swimming around in icy water can be dangerous, just as having a lovely hot water bottle on your belly can help menstrual cramps. But simply drinking it isn't going to have the same effect unless you start drinking half a bathtub of the stuff... in which case you have other problems to worry about...as you said, extremes

Drinking cold water still get your stomach cell cool down from the original body temperature, which need increase metabolism for balancing the homeostasis, which is a common point of view from the Chinese.
As you said, similarly, taking icy water during menstrual cramps will worsen the situation ~
Anyway, it really feel good to drink a cup of ice water during summer time haha ~

Their ridiculous obsession with hot water is probably why china has such high incidence of so many GI cancers, especial esophageal caner .

Oh and btw, is that the new steemstem logo?

We have a bunch of SteemSTEM banners now =P I use them interchangeably. I suppose our logo is still the rocket that is the main picture on the main account.

And yeah, ridiculous is the right word though I've not seen any studies relating it to a high correlation of health issues... wouldn't surprise me though!

Yeah I haven;t come across any studies showing the correlation either, which is why I said probably. But if we think of the pathologic mechanism, it makes complete sense. No one is probably bothered to conduct a study on this lol!!

Yeah i love the rocket logo haha!!

Great post. Pseudoscience is at the very least not helpful, but it can get very dangerous. I don't understand how sometimes seemingly intelligent people can actually believe such things. Five minutes ago I came across a post about "levitation". And I'm not talking about levitation with diamagnetism and superconducters (I did an #emojitrivia about that today) but "Yogic Flying". Unbelievable. I'm glad there are people like you on steemit.

Thanks! There are indeed many of us, which you can catch on the steemit.chat group channel #steemSTEM, or increasingly now though new, our discord channel. You're welcome to both!

I still like my water cold, even against those pseudoscientists who swore it would be the death of me :)

100% of dead people are cold, did you know?

Even those in cryostasis. But they'll still get resuscitated :p

I just found out that people get cold when they are dead :)

You can criticize something that you don't understand all you want however that still doesn't take away from the success TCM has in treating chronic disease that Western medicine still hasn't figured out.

I think I understand it quite well. Show me some evidence of your claim and we can discuss

This is a really small study but if the results hold in a larger study it would be significant.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28671093

The important part of TCM that Western medicine doesn't take into account it the fact that everyone is a individual and thus will need personalized treatments.

With pharmaceuticals everyone is treated as the average of a population, when they are not. Most drugs don't treat the cause; they cover the symptom.

1 - There's no such thing as 'western medicine' - it's just medicine or fake medicine.

2 - Of course there is personalized medicine, claiming this is special to TCM is a myth. It's called Personalized Medicine, surprisingly.

3 -

Most drugs don't treat the cause; they cover the symptom.

This is a myth. The cause of Tapeworms is that there are tapeworms inside you. The solution is medicine that kills tapeworms. Not re-balancing Qi. The cause of infection is bacteria. The solution is to kill the bacteria, not the yin-yang philosophy and donkey skin.

and TCM's idea of the cause being based on Qi and Meridian pathways is demonstrably and historically false, even by the ancient scholars of China, who banned TCM for being nonsense hundreds, and thousands of years ago (see first two posts on TCM history and Acupuncture).

4 - Regardinig your source, this hits directly on problems I discussed in the donkey skin post above. In short, a paper by Chinese people working on Chinese people is incredibly biased, leading to results consistently over 90% successful, which is basically impossible unless a God actually exists and favours Chinese people. The shockingly low quality of exclusively Chinese studies is very evident (as noted in my post linked above) to those who can read the whole paper, but unfortunately I can't access anything more than the abstract to the link you've provided which isn't very useful.

One thing I can say is that the P value used to state 'significance' is a problem for several reasons discussed here, in short:

The threshold value, P < 0.05 is arbitrary....Statistical significance result does not translate into clinical importance.

That's all I can really comment with just the abstract to go by, but you get the idea.

So what is your definition of fake medicine? Separating Western medicine, Naturopathy, TCM, Ayurveda, Homeopathy is valid since they are very different systems of medicine with different assumptions and beliefs.

I wasn't claiming that personalized medicine was unique to TCM. A lot of other systems focus on the person rather then the symptom. It is an important distinction.

The cause of infection is bacteria. The solution is to kill the bacteria

So are you saying that the person who gets chronic repeated sinus infections only problem is that they are being exposed to bacteria? Or perhaps their body is for some reason a more suitable growing environment for the bacteria and by trying to change the terrain you would be able to stop the infections from happening. You don't get a infection because of a antibiotic deficiency and it is impossible to completely sterilize the environment surrounding you.

I agree with you for relying on p values as a sole source of prof of validity. P-values (<0.05) only say that the results obtained are a greater then 95% confidence not due to chance.

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Unless of course, we're implying the Asian race is inherently weaker and can't handle a glass of cold water?

This got me laughing out loud. But truth is; if cold water is poisonous, I could be dead by now.. But I'm still alive :)

Not for long!

Lol. At least 101years would be okay for me :p

When I drink cold or sugary drinks my cramps get worse during my cycle. Not a myth in my opinion. Some friends muat boil their water, despite the metals. Other friends only drink distilled water. Then I read an article that stated distilled water can kill a person. Balance is the key I guess. Joy

Well, sugary drinks makes sense, especially if you're diabetic and just don't know it yet. Both too little or too much sugar can make cramps worse. it would be interesting for somebody such as yourself to actually turn this into a personal study; rather than casually associate drinking with cramps, make actual notes as to the drink, temperature, time of drink VS time of cramp, intensity of cramp and so forth, and see what conclusions can objectively be drawn that way.

At the very least it'll help dispel the belief. Obviously it wouldn't be very reliable because it's just one person and placebo is a powerful thing, but I think it could be valuable anyway, if nothing more than a steemSTEM steemit post =P

The abrupt changes of temperature actually affect the metabolism, excellent information

Wao beautiful post like you

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