Why you should avoid upvote services at all costs

in #research6 years ago (edited)

If you pay upvote services to vote you're ruining STEEM

Upvote services were designed to break intention of STEEM to discourage self-upvoting and encourage voting other peoples posts.

Those users who delegate their power to these services make most of the profit from the vote, they get paid, in cash, to vote. They are selling the principal of defraying shame from people who want to cheat the system by using their company shares to pay out to themselves and nobody else.


source Minnowbooster website

The only difference from evil whales stealing the reward pool by upvoting themselves with all their investment is that these services now enjoy the middleman seat, taking capital from the poor to give profit to the rich to accomplish this, so minnows lose all their spending power on STEEM (all your SBD gets spent in the hopes of having some gain 7 days later), and earn a tiny fraction of the profit from the exchange, the service and the SP delegator taking all the rest.

How does that affect the regular 'Joe' on STEEM?

It's reducing your payouts to a mere trickle and the voting power of new users to dust, and its doing that to everyone elses posts too! You are literally taking rewards away from everyone else and paying to make that happen, and most of the profit doesn't go to you, it goes to the delegator, its calculated that way.

If you use upvote services that have whitelists, you are encouraging nepotism on STEEM

I empowers a system that puts votes in the hands of some, and destroying equal opporunity.

And they have now gone even further down the evil rabbit hole by introducing a whitelist, if you're not on that list (people can only be enrolled by the administrative users) then the votes you receive appear as dribs and drabs, you don't get the advertised amount, your votes often get subdivided between 30-60 different voters and you'll be limited to only receive votes from a pool that never has any votes available.

So they have a list of users with perks, whats wrong with that?

It's done to produce the public impression that they are preventing abuse, they're holding back non-abusive true bloggers from the list on the sly while enrolling all their buddies (many who do make low value posts, like rewrites of google research, advertising shows and services with shorthand etc, not blogs) on the whitelist, the same power that was built up from your payments, is now used to boost a select few with votes they would never receive organically, and promoting many posts that still receive no organic attention, while leaving the rest of the network hanging, people who actually use STEEM for blogging and want to grow their accounts the intended way.

So what am I supposed to do?

If you absolutely feel like you have no choice but to pay for users to invest their voting power in your posts, rather team up with a user who has some power and pay them personally for your votes if you want arranged votes for promotion, if you use services like this you are taking the decision of who gets what from the reward pool away from the noble ledger and handing it to a bunch of corrupt humans.

Are there any other options at all?

We have put together a free, altruism-oriented upvote service where you never pay for upvotes, in time, it will snowball and automatically outrun all paid services, you get refunded, in votes, for your own votes, and the group receives all the excess evenly. It serves to take all the shares that the middlemen currently enjoy by taking your cash over and over again and instead attributes all its profit to the group.

ॐ we are one ॐ

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@lanmower is a punkstiny.pngsteemPunk

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Thank you for the post, as I had just started to experiment with bots. The information you gave me is causing me to re-evaluate. I am a plankton, no big money involved, but the principle is important.

There are other ways to get exposure, and they're actually better, they're not only more ethical, but more profitable.

I work as a social media marketer and I studied tons of different accounts on steemit before i even started my journey here.

And to tell you the truth I cannot find any other ways that could allow us to build our presence here. You either use bots or you must be a whale or have a friend who is a whale and would support you.

Otherwise each one of us would end up spending hours on this platform trying to build a content that has no value. Why no value? Simply because getting rid of bots would crash demand for steem and sbd. Mass powering down would start right away. can you even imagine how it would affect steem value if all bot owners would start powering down and withdrawing their funds?

It's simple math. I think that would be heavy blow to steemit. Even now (with current low prices of steem) there isnt that many content builders being active. If value of steem would crash then most authors would not bother to continue their work.

Just put yourself in the shoes of someone who spent months creating content and investing in this platform. And all of sudden bots are not allowed and mass powering down would start. And you would realize that all your efforts and investment is worth nothing. How many people would stay here? I already see many moving to minds.com

I would like to suggest the very best way to build your presence! make friends on discord, join us at steempunks! ;)

Then theres school of minnows, we'd be very happy to have you on board.

I have a few other tricks up my sleeve, let's meet up and talk shop ;)

@lanmower is a punkstiny.pngsteemPunk (click to join discord)

Im sorry for such a late reply. I was away for some time lately.

Thank you for your invitation. Unfortunatelly i dont use discord (it takes huge amount of time to be present on that tool) :(

yours,piotr

Upvoted but I disagree.

Without being able to advertise yourself using bots noone here would be able ever end up on trending page and those who have money (whales) would dominate steemit completly. Small players (like myself) would struggle even more than we do right now to get any exposure.

I agree with you totally, there is of course another side to it, if you didn't pay for votes whales would have to either pull out their vests or vote people based on their content instead of what they pay, either way, the reward pool would return to you, the hard-to-accept truth about paid voting services is that it costs you more to use it and its diluting the real votes, which makes STEEM worth less to use/vote organically on, all of this is bad for you at the end of the day.

One could say whales would dominate steemit, but the reality is they dominate steemit now, and the only way you can stop widening that gap is to stop enabling them more.

We would all benefit from forgetting about the trending page, nobody who has the vests that matters cares about it, and the first step to make the trending page mean anything again, is not paying for votes.

First of all most whales are shamed when they're caught supporting only themselves, a lot of whale attention would be directed at you if it wasn't profitable and incentivised for them to ignore you until you pay them through a service.

All of that being said, I still completely understand your point of view, since we're the same size you can imagine we're in the same boat, I feel you brother I know the struggle, and at times voting services have helped me a little, but that being said, out of the thousands of SBD that's gone to whales thanks to my paid votes, I've maybe received two real viewers worth of exposure, while all my real viewers have been made by getting to know them. They don't really give you exposure, they give you the trending page, which is a parody of exposure.

The few 'organic votes' we sometimes seem to get after highly paid votes from bots are automated from curation trails, you'll never get those users as an audience unless they check their votes suspecting scammers etc and find you, you've essentially 'won a battle' (and not by much) and lost the war.

Another important matter to consider is that paying a bot for an upvote is not advertising yourself, if you spent the same amount of money on advertising, you would actually get exposure as in views.

Paid upvotes rarely give posts views they wouldn't otherwise receive, and when they do receive any attention generated form their paid votes, its more often than not negative attention.

Thinking "I'm not the vote pusher I'm just the addict" enriches the pushers.

Thank you for the thoughtful response, gave you a vote :)

Im also very grateful for your response and your time. I will definetly follow you closely (I noticed that we share number of interests).

You have some points and it's hard to disagree that bots are earning huge part of rewards.
But without using bots I would lose most of those that auto-vote my posts. Did you ever consider it?
The truth is that if my content would not bring much rewards (without bots it's just not possible) then i would lose them.

We cannot fool ourselfs that anyone would upvote our post only because it has good content. That's not going to happend ever. Most population will be upvoting those posts that generate some return. And whales will be producing low quality content and upvoting using accounts with huge SP.

Not to mention that lack of bots will destroy demand and value of SBD and steem will completly crash.
would I keep my funds in this platform knowing that it hardly make any difference if my SP is worth nothing or 400? Not really. Especially knowing that value of steem would drop heavily?

How could you convince anyone to invest in steem or SBD? Without bots steem is worthless.

One could say whales would dominate steemit, but the reality is they dominate steemit now, and the only way you can stop widening that gap is to stop enabling them more.

Right now I can compete with whales. Bots are the only tool that allows me to do so.

We would all benefit from forgetting about the trending page

I agree. trending page shouldnt be our priority. But making sure that your curators get some decent reward is and always will be a priority.
If i cannot ensure that it will be profitable for them to upvote my content, then (again) I will lose most of them.

All the best,
Yours
Piotr

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I agree, upvote services only benefit the bot. So much good content gets glossed over cause people just pay. Like the mems!

You're so right, on STEEM, we're all living on the cutting edge of security, organization and governance, with this wonderful power does come some responsibility, we can't all wear blinkers forever hahaha.

Of course, you should only vote real @lanmower memes, because @lanmower memes are so refreshing, like a cool summer breeze when you're eating an ice-cream.

Much love @diezeldiddy, hope you're doing well, thanks for pitching in. ;)

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