The Pope does not believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ because the Vatican's master is Satan?
"A certain man was rich, was clothed in purple and fine linen, and every day feasted brilliantly. There was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,... the poor man Died and was carried by the Angels into Abraham's bosom. Died and the rich man, and buried him. And in hell, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes, and saw Abraham far away, and Lazarus in his bosom, and cried, saying, father Abraham. have mercy on me and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, child! remember that you received your good things in your life, and Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. and besides all this, between us and you a great chasm, so wanting to pass from here to you cannot, and also from there to us not to go. He said, ' then I beg you, father, send him to my father's house for I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham said unto him, they have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. He said, " no, father Abraham, but if any of the dead come to them, they will repent." Then [Abraham] said to him," if Moses and the prophets were not listened to, then if any of the dead were to rise, they would not believe the gospel of Luke the 16th Chapter.
I would think that hell is not-heaven. Recent views on hell aren't the ones that a Hebrew peasant, named Jesus would have shared.
I'm guessing anyone in hell, wouldn't be able to tell us about it, if it exists, right?
Rome created the official state version of Christianity in 315 ACE (or AD if you're old school). Over the centuries their saints and scholars discussed and devised their description of the version of Hell that is being discussed in your clip.
Prior to 315 ACE, there was a three hundred year campaign to destroy some of the main teachings of Jesus and/or his followers. Maybe the pope is revealing some of Jesus's thoughts on hell?
The Dead Sea Scrolls reveal some of what was destroyed. The Catholic Church is rumored to house some of the other suppressed teachings, and known, by scholars to edit the Bible from time to time.
This pope seems like he has been reading some of the inside/suppressed information and let something slip by accident. Maybe he's getting old?
I'm with Tolstoy: the Church got it wrong. Although he's a little braver than I. Tolstoy says the disciples got it wrong. A life dedicated to following Christ is not always consistent with the cannons, tenants and beliefs of all the various versions of Christianity. https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/leo-tolstoy-the-kingdom-of-god-is-within-you
'I would think that hell is not-heaven. Recent views on hell aren't the ones that a Hebrew peasant, named Jesus would have shared. '
That's always been my interpretation. After I started studying the bible again I realised that the idea of a hel is utter nonesense.
I've argued with so many Christians that Hel's not a thing... And the 'Devil' is also nonsense.
Also I'd argue that this isn't some arcana, I got it by reading the Book and comparing translations. For example most translations that say 'hel' are mistranslating 'Gehenna' which is a funeral pyre for the dishonourable dead, not an afterlife.
Ultimately, they're all just metaphors that can be useful or not.
This multi-verse is a little more complicated than our tiny brains and interesting stories can deal with, IMHO.
I like what Tolstoy says, that Heaven is a state of mind one achieves when living the tenants of the Sermon of the Mount. He, like you, rebukes Christians concepts, in favor of living a life of radical love and non-violence.
I've met veterans, who've described the war crimes they committed...several times I've heard vets tell me about being ordered to shot all children they see, based on their notion that some children were carrying bombs. Indiscriminate killing of children, is a war crime. These veterans lived in hell their entire lives, as far as I can tell.
I gave up arguing with Christians. I just love them with Christ's love.
Tolstoy says to be a Christian one:
Has to say they are suddenly granted infallibility of God's plan for all eternity, for the entire multi-verse. Only a Christian acquires this knowledge...and they don't have to undergo any sort of training to acquire this knowledge.
Believes that the only way to meet God is through a few words in a book that was heavily edited by Rome in 315 ACE. And then the meanings of those words were re-interpreted over and over and over again over centuries.
Forget any sort of direct relationship with a living Christ...as say Bob Marley demonstrated...but...just have a relationship with a set of stories and beliefs.
Joining the cool club is the only way into heaven.
Unrelated to anything else I said:
When people point to the sky for heaven and the ground for hell...I find that weird, don't you?
That would make sense for the Dark Ages when people thought the world was flat.
But, a planet spinning in space, around a star, that is hurtling through space and circling a super black hole....well...there's just no up and down in our actual reality.
Definitely heaven isn't outside our atmosphere...a state of mind perhaps...
Are there dimensions we don't have access to, that might be analogous to heaven? Well...maybe?
Isn't the pope the proxy of god on earth, going by the beliefs of the catholic church? If, what is said is true, then them scrambling to push the old narrative only shows that they only push the former knowledge as long as it suits them. Which would make the church as corrupt as any government ... hmmm ...
Well, choose for yourself.
It is amusing how they scramble to protect the orthodoxy every time he says something that strays slightly. The Catholic Church is all about dwelling on the past and maintaining antiquated traditions.
The Pope does not believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ because the Vatican's master is Satan?
"A certain man was rich, was clothed in purple and fine linen, and every day feasted brilliantly. There was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,... the poor man Died and was carried by the Angels into Abraham's bosom. Died and the rich man, and buried him. And in hell, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes, and saw Abraham far away, and Lazarus in his bosom, and cried, saying, father Abraham. have mercy on me and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, child! remember that you received your good things in your life, and Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. and besides all this, between us and you a great chasm, so wanting to pass from here to you cannot, and also from there to us not to go. He said, ' then I beg you, father, send him to my father's house for I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham said unto him, they have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. He said, " no, father Abraham, but if any of the dead come to them, they will repent." Then [Abraham] said to him," if Moses and the prophets were not listened to, then if any of the dead were to rise, they would not believe the gospel of Luke the 16th Chapter.
I would think that hell is not-heaven. Recent views on hell aren't the ones that a Hebrew peasant, named Jesus would have shared.
I'm guessing anyone in hell, wouldn't be able to tell us about it, if it exists, right?
Rome created the official state version of Christianity in 315 ACE (or AD if you're old school). Over the centuries their saints and scholars discussed and devised their description of the version of Hell that is being discussed in your clip.
Prior to 315 ACE, there was a three hundred year campaign to destroy some of the main teachings of Jesus and/or his followers. Maybe the pope is revealing some of Jesus's thoughts on hell?
The Dead Sea Scrolls reveal some of what was destroyed. The Catholic Church is rumored to house some of the other suppressed teachings, and known, by scholars to edit the Bible from time to time.
This pope seems like he has been reading some of the inside/suppressed information and let something slip by accident. Maybe he's getting old?
I'm with Tolstoy: the Church got it wrong. Although he's a little braver than I. Tolstoy says the disciples got it wrong. A life dedicated to following Christ is not always consistent with the cannons, tenants and beliefs of all the various versions of Christianity.
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/leo-tolstoy-the-kingdom-of-god-is-within-you
'I would think that hell is not-heaven. Recent views on hell aren't the ones that a Hebrew peasant, named Jesus would have shared. '
That's always been my interpretation. After I started studying the bible again I realised that the idea of a hel is utter nonesense.
I've argued with so many Christians that Hel's not a thing... And the 'Devil' is also nonsense.
Also I'd argue that this isn't some arcana, I got it by reading the Book and comparing translations. For example most translations that say 'hel' are mistranslating 'Gehenna' which is a funeral pyre for the dishonourable dead, not an afterlife.
Ultimately, they're all just metaphors that can be useful or not.
This multi-verse is a little more complicated than our tiny brains and interesting stories can deal with, IMHO.
I like what Tolstoy says, that Heaven is a state of mind one achieves when living the tenants of the Sermon of the Mount. He, like you, rebukes Christians concepts, in favor of living a life of radical love and non-violence.
I've met veterans, who've described the war crimes they committed...several times I've heard vets tell me about being ordered to shot all children they see, based on their notion that some children were carrying bombs. Indiscriminate killing of children, is a war crime. These veterans lived in hell their entire lives, as far as I can tell.
I gave up arguing with Christians. I just love them with Christ's love.
Tolstoy says to be a Christian one:
Forget any sort of direct relationship with a living Christ...as say Bob Marley demonstrated...but...just have a relationship with a set of stories and beliefs.
Unrelated to anything else I said:
When people point to the sky for heaven and the ground for hell...I find that weird, don't you?
That would make sense for the Dark Ages when people thought the world was flat.
But, a planet spinning in space, around a star, that is hurtling through space and circling a super black hole....well...there's just no up and down in our actual reality.
Definitely heaven isn't outside our atmosphere...a state of mind perhaps...
Are there dimensions we don't have access to, that might be analogous to heaven? Well...maybe?
Wonderful, thanks. I'll look into some of that, I've never heard of those people.
They need hell in order to spook people into being religious.
Isn't the pope the proxy of god on earth, going by the beliefs of the catholic church? If, what is said is true, then them scrambling to push the old narrative only shows that they only push the former knowledge as long as it suits them. Which would make the church as corrupt as any government ... hmmm ...
Well, choose for yourself.
Is the pope infallible if he gets Alzheimer's? The conservative wing of the church can simply claim he's got dementia, right?
It is amusing how they scramble to protect the orthodoxy every time he says something that strays slightly. The Catholic Church is all about dwelling on the past and maintaining antiquated traditions.
Good. I've been arguing with other Christians for years now that the idea of Hel is ridiculous, and antithetical to the idea of Christianity and God.
Saying bad people go to Hel when they die is literally as ridiculous as saying they go to Asgard.