You are viewing a single comment's thread from:
RE: ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO DIE FOR YOUR LOVED ONES?
As a man, I write from the point of view of a man, husband, father, etc.
The purpose of this article is not to encourage people to "give up their lives" by dying for others, but to "give up their lives" by living for others.
I view my wife and children as more important than myself, which is my opinion, choice, and freedom, and strive to live in a way that demonstrates my view. I meant no "ruthless double standard" when it comes to women and men, or children and parents for that matter.
Again, as I hope my post-script noted, I did not think you had any ill intent. I have the utmost respect for you as a pillar of this community, and though I often do not comment, I try to read most of your posts. I've never detected anything but "good vibes" from you.
However, I feel your post would have been better served to remain gender neutral, rather than specifically excluding people from your list of sacrificers based on sex. There is no reason why women could not have equally been included, because to do otherwise strongly implies yet another benefit for people based on gender.
I went from wanting to fully endorse it, to once again being tired of having my gender used against me to justify responsibilities I apparently have.
If you have not noticed, younger men are getting fed up with a social system that expects these types of sacrifices while simultaneously rendering them no compensatory benefits and, indeed, many disadvantages which I noted above and no reasonable person could possibly dispute in good faith.
As a result, you are seeing a plunging marriage rate and birth rate as well as an increasing divorce rate. This is an area near and dear to my heart as I work in the field of psychology, and relationship therapy is specifically why I got my master's in psych.
In Japan, these young men have basically given up on women entirely. Japan will soon be extinct. I don't want to see that happen in the west, too, however that is exactly what will happen if we continue to expect sacrifices from one party continuously at the benefit of another, as the current family court system enshrines into unethical law.
Lionizing more young men for sacrificing their potential for codependent relationships statistically likely to result in divorce is doing no one any favors.
I presume you are unaware of the fact Dan Larimer was given alimony payments in excess of half his after tax income when his wife recanted on church mediation?
This platform literally exists partially because of what I cited in my post, and while your response is respectful and appreciated, you may note the other responses calling me "triggered" or "MGTOW' simply for stating an unassailable ethical argument based on a sequence of facts.
None of them care what I have to say; they don't follow me. They do follow and listen to you.
Don't set them up for divorce rape and being discarded, like what happened to @dan.
Thank you again for your reply, and I understand more of where you are coming from.
Just to clarify a few things, here is the beginning of your original reply:
I was not intentionally omitting the word husband, but by the use of the word wife rather than woman, I think that it may be implied.
Additionally, you mentioned the following:
My point was that I believe it would be right for me to shield one of my children from harm, like a bullet. If your response was driven to its logical conclusion, then it would be better for me to hold one of my children between me and the bullet, using them as a "meat-shield", in order to protect myself and promote my own survival. I would disagree with that.
The point of my post, as summed up in the last two questions was that if a someone would be willing to die for their loved ones perhaps they should consider living for them in a more intentional way. "Cannon-fodder" has nothing to do with living, but rather dying.
Moreover, to "blame women" for initiating 70% of divorces may seem like they bear the burden of guilt. If they swore 'til death do we part, then obviously they at least broke their vows. However, I believe that certain actions of the husband could lead to the wife initiating divorce, could they not? I could live in such a way today that could convince my wife that it may be best to divorce me.
The main point, written from my personal perspective of a man, husband, and father, was that if we ALL learned to put our loves ones ahead of ourselves, then I believe that families and marriages would be better than they are.
Your point about gender neutral is a very good one indeed. Obviously woman and men, husbands and wives should be "equal" in as what they give and what they get.
I do not think a man nor woman should constantly be giving to someone who is not reciprocating. It is a two way street and a truly healthy relationship requires 200%.
While there is obviously some misunderstandings and some hurt feelings in this thread I do feel that it is a very healthy discussion/exploration. So thanks for starting that.
Best Regards~*~
Thank you, quinneaker. I appreciate your mature viewpoint.
"While there is obviously some misunderstandings and some hurt feelings in this thread I do feel that it is a very healthy discussion/exploration. So thanks for starting that."
I don't mind being a lightning rod anymore. People stopped flagging me for my opinions when they:
"It is a two way street and a truly healthy relationship requires 200%."
You said it. Often even that isn't enough to halt the "slings and arrows of outrageous fortune" we all must deal with.
Yes well I am sure we both know that people are fragile, judgmental and scared of change/difference/unknown.
In truth most people just accepted that its "not ok" to talk about politics, religion etc etc because its inappropriate and guaranteed to get peoples feelings hurt.
Yet this is all the more reason that we need more discussions. People are so stuck in their ways, that once there is a challenge to it people get offended, angry, scared, upset etc.
It sure would be nice if we could have discussions with objective perspectives and exchange. Alas it seem almost impossible for humans.
I know what its like to have people judge me, condemn me want to change or destroy me. Its part of what a revolutionary has to go through.
I for one will deal with the cognitive dissonance and arrogant judgments to be able to be as liberated and alive as I am. Then when I help someone else awaken its a super bonus which makes it all so worth while.
If you ever need someone to have a conscious and responsible conversation with, let me know.
Blessings~*~
Fully upvoted for complete agreement!
Wow thank you for that!
Very honorable of you and SOOO SOO rare!
I make comments regularly that are very relevant and valuable and yet it is so rare for it to be honored and respected.
I can see that you really care about the truth, even when its an "inconvenient truth" or as I like to say "uncomfortable truth"
You are setting an example we need a LOT more of in this community which is DISCUSSION! Discussion is the real importance for human evolution and the comments are SOOOOOOO lacking here on Steemit.
I have noticed that you are VERY engaged in comments and if I had more time I would probably follow your comments threads to see what you are poking at. Yet I am already so over busy I just find you from time to time.
However I can remember on multiple occasions where I comment on one of your comments and say something to the likes of. This is a comment that we need to see a lot more of and thanks for contributing REAL thought and discussion to this community.
So anyways I could go on and on but I hope you get my point.
Respect~*~
"I make comments regularly that are very relevant and valuable and yet it is so rare for it to be honored and respected."
Mining value in the comments is one of my favorite activities on Steemit. They are vastly overlooked and some of the best discussion happens there. I only with I had more VP.
You might want to check out the @CommentWealth project, if you haven't.
"You are setting an example we need a LOT more of in this community which is DISCUSSION! Discussion is the real importance for human evolution and the comments are SOOOOOOO lacking here on Steemit."
It's unfortunate, but not surprising. Much of the comments are either spam or some form of either begging or sycophancy. It sort of makes sense to do that when you start out (the sycophanting, I mean), but there are so few genuine discussions.
I think this is probably because the rewards for commenting are much harder to quantify. I have observed that I get far fewer payouts from putting work into the comments, relative to making those thoughts a blog post. You can see this effect if you compare your votes to your views - usually the former is significantly higher. However, I do get a lot more followers from comments than I do from posting (from what I can tell).
"I have noticed that you are VERY engaged in comments and if I had more time I would probably follow your comments threads to see what you are poking at. Yet I am already so over busy I just find you from time to time."
I know what you mean. I am unable to keep up with my replies, and totally ignoring my feed at this point. I am being pulled in many different directions with these collaboration projects and even treating Steemit like a 50+ hour a week job, I am not getting everything done I want to.
"So anyways I could go on and on but I hope you get my point."
I do, thank you!
Yes I totally agree and I know you discuss this a lot and rightfully so. I do also as we'll as many other taboo topics people ignore....
All we can do is keep doing what we believe is important and then at least we feel fulfilled within our selfs. Its nice to be "paid" for what our ideals are, yet its MORE important to have ideals and live up to them regardless of being paid!
And HEY look here! Some angel with good sense gave you a REALLY nice up vote for the comment as you deserve!
At least there are some out there who are paying attention and supporting a valuable discussion culture here on Steemit!
Good on you @nikez452
Also, by way of reminder, this was a #family post. It was not about men vs. women, or women vs. men. It was about what I believe to be an appropriate mindset for spouses and parents.
We're both attempting to come at the same goal of "more intact families, less family abuse".
I just deal with the broken pieces on a regular basis in my line of work, so we come from opposite directions: you from the (I would argue, increasingly rare) healthy family, me from the graveyard of abused and entitled relationship "zombies" making a last ditch effort in therapy for a cancer that has already metastasized.
This was very apparent @papa-pepper and I believe most people got that conclusion. You are a very honorable man and that is apparent. Thank you for setting such a high standard of caring and contributing.
The world would be a great place if people actually loved, cared for and respected each other.
Blessings~*~