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RE: ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO DIE FOR YOUR LOVED ONES?
Woah. The MGTOW is strong.
It really depends on your worldview. Read the verse I cited below and perhaps you'll understand the perspective. The question is not about value of men vs women for in God's eyes they are equal serving complementary purposes but this seems about the specific responsibility of a man as protector for the family. Sacrifice is a virtuous thing, right?
"MGTOW"
I'll gloss over the relatively minor attempt to affiliate my irrefutable argument with a fringe movement to discredit me.
It's a rather ironic attempt, given that my goal is to prevent a movement like this from needing to exist by attempting to call attention to the factors that are forcing men into MGTOW so they can be prevented before the Herbivore Men spread out of Japan with their "eggs" (you don't want to know).
"Sacrifice is a virtuous thing, right?"
"Those black slaves in the fields are sacrificing so the American Colonies can have Cotton!"
Sacrifice is good if appreciated, rewarded, and done voluntarily. However, it is no longer rewarded, and the means by which it is "cultivated" in young western men is pretty similar to brainwashing with regular propaganda. The complete lie that is the "Gender wage gap" is one good example.
Sending young men into "sacrifice" for young women who are divorcing them more than 2:1, at the highest rates ever recorded, while also getting alimony, child support, and custody for doing it...there's another biblical phrase for that:
"Lambs to the slaughter".
I know it may seem counterintuitive but bear with me.
As a principle, it is a good thing for families to remain intact in love. It doesn't always play out like that in this sad world. I do agree with your critical stance against the myth that is the gender pay gap and concur that there is definitely inequality concerning the legal system regarding men and women.
I think Christians ought to be wise and exercise as much grace as has been allotted to them in whatever adverse situation they may find themselves but every men has their limit. I believe God certainly understands especially in abusive relationships. But as @papa-pepper indicated, the sacrifice isn't necessarily putting ones neck on the chopping block and committing a form of suicide but the sacrifice may be conducting oneself with longsuffering. Seeking counseling and reconciliation if at all possible but I think we both understand we must have realistic expectation. I, for one, speak from experience. My first wife put me through the ringer while I was deployed and was shacking up with another man. I went through some kind of turmoil but I guess in retrospect the experience refined the man that I am today. Yes, I ended up getting divorced after multiple attempts to reconcile. It just didn't pan out.
So, I think I understand in a visceral manner what you mean by "lambs to the slaughter". I was one of them and I made it out of the killing floor by the grace of God. He later trained my eyes to see the true lamb who was slain from before the foundation of the world. It's been one wild ride but now I have a faithful wife and adorable daughter so I have that going for me which is nice.
Although we may disagree on a few things, I appreciate the passion in your comment and think we do agree on much except there may be a difference on account of our spiritual convictions.
"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;"
Ask the Dalai Lama how this philosophy of leadership has gone for his people.
Leaders do not get the luxury of doing this. Leaders who do will be quickly removed or lead their constituencies over a ledge.
"My first wife put me through the ringer while I was deployed and was shacking up with another man. I went through some kind of turmoil but I guess in retrospect the experience refined the man that I am today. Yes, I ended up getting divorced after multiple attempts to reconcile."
Yes, and you would have been much better off if you hadn't attempted to reconcile and rightly identified yourself as too good for dealing with a person who treats you that way. While you were off potentially dying for her country and security... (I don't know the situation, but it appears) You let yourself be a doormat; justifying it with spiritual conviction merely makes you a faithful doormat.
Wouldn't it be nice if we could impart knowledge into young men that would allow them to reach the goal:
"but now I have a faithful wife and adorable daughter so I have that going for me which is nice."
withoug having to traverse this part?:
"My first wife put me through the ringer while I was deployed and was shacking up with another man."
"think we do agree on much except there may be a difference on account of our spiritual convictions."
Indeed. Ethically and morally we are similar. That doesn't prevent me from being a lightning rod for angry ad-hominems, though.
Thank you for taking the time to reply.
I would agree with your analysis in regard to leadership but as with everything we need to consider it contextually. In the course of military duty and warfare, things work a little differently. Romans 13 lays out a bit of the function of the civil authorities and principles I believe may also be applicable to miltary service.
I don't want to go too deep but will caveat by saying that even if there may be a biblical function of these agents it is not to say the intentions of those employing them are necessarily moral. Of course, I believe America has a long and illustrius history of dubious political intentions in the "defense" of it's way of lif but I digress. Suffice it to say that I believe loving your enemies and defending one's way of life are not mutually exclusive.
Also, yes I could have bypassed the terrible ordeal I had with my former spouse had I known the outcome in advance but that's life for you. I could have also bought Bitcoin when I first heard about it in 2013. I learned a nugget of wisdom from a chat program called Alice way back when and wanted to share. Alice told me that it is not profitable to speak in hypotheticals. In light of ones mistakes in life that could have been prevented through knowledge, I think she is spot on. I did learn from my ordeal but the "what if"s aren't going to do me a whole lotta good. Rather it should always be the "what now" that we must consider after a mistake (such as misplacing one's trust for instance).
Likewise, I had learned from my latest from not buying that Bitcoin when I caught it under $3000 that sometimes, in life, there are risks that are worth taking. Hell, in the military they have these things called operational risk management worksheet where in you actually determine an acceptable level of risk for an operation (using mitigation strategies etc). In retrospect, maybe an ORM worksheet would have been helpful before I married the last one. Maybe the whole mess could have been averted. Lol
Ultimately, I believe in a sort of divine determinism (aka everything happens for a reason) so even, if something I am going through sucks, I could always look back and most assuredly I find some sort of silver lining maybe even a purpose. For instance, what did I learn from x experience. I believe we are prone to learn more from our failures than our successes.
Hey, I'm sorry if anyone had called you any names on this thread. I was really taking a playful jab on the mgtow remark. I actually believe most of their grievances with society are legit and even sub to one of their channels on YT. I appreciate your comment.
I'm sorry I didn't get to this comment sooner, I would have liked to upvote it.
Thank you for your thoughts. Great reply.
@lexiconical It's fine. Yeah, don't you hate when that happens. Many of us have very busy lives on the "outside" and it happens. I must say that I really like the effort you put into discussions/engagement. That's good stuff!
I really appreciate that anyone even read this far!