Why I won't vote for you if you offer me something in return

in rant •  last year

In the last couple of weeks, I notice a curious trend - lots of newbies contacting me privately to vote for their stuff, submit their posts to Curie, in exchange for something or the other. I've even seen people jump into Curie chat to announce they are following @curie's trail and now they expect votes from Curie in return. When asking why, I learned that there are many curation initiatives of late that trade votes in return for something. That could be a follow, joining a trail, collusive voting, sharing rewards, or just outright paying them. This is of course the expected effect of a free market, and I encourage all such initiatives. Personally, there's no way I can be involved in such curation efforts.

A brief history of the market of creativity

The unusual thing about the arts or any creative profession is, there's no objective measure for success. Everything's dictated by subjective opinion. To make things murkier, there are often middlemen who don't understand what the artists desire, or what the consumers demand.

For millennia, the arts were financed not by the public, but by patrons of the arts. Artists had absolute creative freedom to push the boundaries of their medium. Through the renaissance, we saw spectacular creative works in all fields - whether it be painting, sculpture, music or literature. Many of these remain unmatched to this very day, which is strange because pretty much every other field has advanced significantly since then.

Some European and East Asian countries' governments subsidize the arts, which is why we've seen some European cinema, music, TV, theatre etc far surpass their American counterparts. Of course, that's a subjective opinion, but hey - this is a personal rant.

A corrupt free market could stifle creativity

So, what happens when the free market meets the Arts? Banal, rubbish content that's repeated over and over again. Particularly in the 80s and 90s, it was in the doldrums. The producers and financiers misguidedly assumed what the consumers wanted, while the consumers had to settle for bullshit. The artists were frustrated, and eventually had to give into the corrupt system.

Fortunately, things have improved, particularly with the internet. It is helping in bridging the gap between the artist and the consumer. There's still a long way to go, of course. This is the type of free market, free of middlemen, that might just work for creative professions. Of course, this requires the artists and consumers alike to mature. And that's where the problem with Steem lies.

We don't have artists as much as opportunists looking to cash in with zero regard for expressing creativity. This'll never be a fun publishing platform till people are incentivized to create engaging content, rather than make a quick buck. If that's the direction Steem takes, that's quite alright, but it's not what I joined Steem for. I joined because the decentralization has the potential to cut out the middlemen, connect the creator to their audience. I joined it to be entertained, to have fun.

To be clear, there are lots of great authors here. Particularly in the last couple of weeks, I've seen hundreds of seasoned bloggers and vloggers with great content stream in. They have my votes.

So, I will only vote on content that I like, that engages me in some way. It can be a silly meme, it can be a groundbreaking academic paper. But I will never vote for your post if you offer me something in exchange.

Finally, please note that this is a rant, please don't be offended or take it too seriously.

Addendum - I also wanted to address the social aspect, as I get it - someone will bring that up. All that's fine, but I would argue if your only communication with people is trading votes, that's not really being social, is it? I also understand, the free market is brutal, one does what they can to get an advantage. No problem there. Personally, I don't believe in such short term measures, and historically the great artists have always been those who have stuck their instincts. While I'm no artist, as a curator I'll stick to my convictions. At the same time, I'll respect yours, but urge you to think longer term.

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Yeah, I can totally get behind this. Finding one's niche is the key to success here, and the more you communicate and comment, the more chances people have to take the plunge and check out your stuff.

The follower you gain as one who stumbles across your stuff and likes what (s)he sees is far superior to the one you pick up from any kind of 'follow me and I'll follow you' trade-off by a factor of 100, IMO.

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well said bro.
it is better for everyone to depend on themselves.
if Steemians vote for you that means they like what you give them and your writings are valuable than their votes indeed,
knowledge is the true key here not anything else.

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Exactly.
The day content will be recognised the platform it will form a most amazing community. I have been saying these since a year
And what @curie is doing, is exactly that. Giving support to content creators since almost a year.

I understand. I'm a minnow and I'm having a very hard time getting noticed. I haven't joined any clubs so I'm out here in the ocean alone. Not easy swimming upstream.

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Answered your own question fellow wee fishy, join a club or something. It's a pretty big ocean and it's good to stay in schools.

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@bleedpoet
Thanks for your response. I will certainly consider it. Do you have any suggestions which one is the best??

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I joined the PAL (peace, abundance love) group on Discord. It is a great place for minnows to learn about contests, associate with different languages and ask questions you may have. @gmuxx would be able to explain it better than I, check his page, he is a great champion of the movement, and a better guide than I.

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Thank you my friend, I will check it out.

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Like I replied to someone else, you have to be patient and persistent. Write posts you really care about, engage with the community, you'll be fine. I made almost nothing the first few weeks I joined. I've never asked anyone for a vote, and I don't have any whale friends. I'll never be a top author, but I don't want to be. My goal always was and I'm content to have created my own niche.

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I joined today but I am surprised at how people beg for votes. This community should be about creating value and not another get rich quick scheme. Money should be reward of value created.

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True, it also looks scammy and unattractive to new people who are considering joining.

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But it is possible with consistency and quality posting to connect with a group of real life people from around the world who will like your content consistently over time. That will build up your reputation and Steem Power; the rest will follow.

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Hi Suzie, I'm a minnow too and I decided I'd like to swim in a school and within a few days of creating my account I started to create my own school of minnows. I'm calling it Team #minnowtowhale The premise is community involvement. We're looking for minnows that know the value in helping one another. No silly stuff, no rules other than be kind to one another and no cost other than time spent helping one another grow. If you're interested let me know. Check us out here 👉🏼 Team #minnowtowhale
Great luck!

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yeah I agree

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Been there.Still fighting to be seen right now. I have found that the best way to get noticed is consistency of quality posts and commenting. You could also start a collaborative project with friends, something like steemsports or TheDailySteemit

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Actually clubs on interests are a good thing. But when these interests concern only earnings - not so much anymore :)

Big fan of this post. I completely agree with how you want to spend your time and upvotes on Steemit. I want to give my upvotes to those who bring entertainment to me in one way or another. By trying to offer me something, follow for a follow, or upvote for and upvote, I am even less inclined to give you sanything. Just out good and interesting content and interact with the community and you will do well. That's all it takes!

Great principles.

There should be more people like that. But as you said this is a free market and people see Steemit as a bussines which in a sort of way, is a shame. Steemit should be passion :)

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I love the free market and would not want any laws, licenses, regulations, taxes, permits to impose upon it. Yet I love principles even more and will embody them at all costs~*~

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I agree! Ideally, we'd all be principled and the free market should be completely free. But while the free market is being abused by a few selfish assholes, there needs to be a better solution. But that's a whole different discussion :)

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Indeed~*~

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Agreed!
People are here for money, that's why they are going at this level. The moment they decide to be part of this community for content, money won't matter but it will come in your way.

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THIS. I focus on making engaging content and though I'm not perfect at it, creating and building something that's truly of my own is worth more than just seeing a number. If steemit scales eventually that'll be the only way to "compete" as has happened on youtube.

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I'm optimistic you'll be able to find your niche. The upcoming subcommunities feature (like subreddit) will help out a great deal. Of course, there'll be fierce competition when Steem scales.

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@mindfreak
Absolutly👏

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I love what your username is.
Following you now.

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The free market works just fine, or has the potential to. Just need to be a pure free market. Right now it's tending towards a corrupt, crony free market.

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Literally true :(

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The "free market" works "perfectly" when ACTUALLY free! ahahhahaah the REASON why it DOESNT work is because the "free market" is not allowed to actually exist/operate! hahahahahahhaa

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Crowdsourcing allows niche markets to thrive. Pandering to the lowest common denominator allows the shallow to profit.

I upvote replies to my posts unless they are themselves begging for upvotes, or offering such a meaningless generic comment that I can't tell whether they read what I wrote. Quid pro quo demands are not cool at all, and while I see a potential use for offering such deals, it just feels distasteful.

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Great post!

:^^)

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Crowdsourcing allows niche markets to thrive. Pandering to the lowest common denominator allows the shallow to profit.

Precisely. Steem has absolute potential to be a free, crowdsourced market. Instead, we are tending towards pandering to the lowest common denominator.

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Agreed!

As a newbie is so tempting for me to shamelessly ask for promotion, but it seems so unprofessional to do so on steem. This site is unique in that it rewards courtesy and respect. Including self respect. I'm resteeming this as a reminder.

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Wow, I just put 5 cents on there! My votes are getting stronger! Was only 4 cents yesterday. Anyway... I just wanted to give you my (5) cents and say that I agree with you. However, as a newbie it is painfully difficult to make any meaningful progress unless you find a caring dolphin (or better yet a whale) to help you along. There are several I have discovered that will lend a hand. Spend lots of time reading their posts and become engaged with them. Make thoughtful comments and they just might start looking over your shoulder and nudging you in the right direction.

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I like your name :) (and your comment)

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Thanks. I appreciate that.
I wrote how I came up with my name in my latest contest, if you are interested.

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Shamelessly self-promoting is fine as long as it's relevant or in an appropriate place. Going and solicitating on someones post however is disgusting.

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That is what I would call shameless self-promotion :)

Yes, I've seen the same trend and it drives me nuts. It doesn't drive me nuts because it is occurring on SteemIt that is fine and that is their choice. However, It seems to show up on my post all the time. Not so much vote, because it isn't worth much, but for follows. The whole idea you follow me and I'll follow you.

I just find it very annoying, if you want to follow me then do so. If I want to follow you I will. If I don't then I won't. For the most part, I think this sort of thing won't really make you successful here. I mean I guess I could be wrong. But it just isn't for me!

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nice this about this im new user follow me and vote also

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Case and point!

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what u mean brother

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I hope that was a joke.

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It wasn't.

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I know - I was overcome by the irony.

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So was I! The very thing this post speaks about and there ya go! I loled so hard at that.

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Well, maybe Alanis Morissette should update her take on irony with such rich fodder...good to make your acquaintance in the meantime. 🤗

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Same here. Sometimes you are reading things and the above just pops up out of nowhere ...like he wasn't even getting the jist of what the post was about. Nice meeting you through this LOL!

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It doesn't drive me nuts, insofar as I understand and expect how a free market works. It's a given. As an avid consumer of creative content, however, it hurts me to be deprived of the true potential for creativity. I'd rather listen to Max Richter than Justin Bieber, for example, and it hurts me to know that Bieber has orders of magnitude more reach and resources at his disposal. Imagine what Richter could do with those resources!

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I think at this point the only reason that it drives me nuts is because I'm coming back from a long absence and I didn't really engage much with community back then. Many of my recent posts do not have a whole lot of comments so I get excited when my phone pops up telling me someone replied and it is this type of message. Granted, this has happened less in the last few days.

Maybe, it's because it summer and I am away from teaching thus I'm craving social interaction!

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Creativity always flourishes when there is no expectation. Its a common human tedency to gravitate towards rewards and thus most of the contents are created in expection of the revenue. Being a musician myself I can relate to the difference between the music I create for money and the music I create in sheer passion. I guess the problem you pointed out is like a paradox. People who gets the message will move on from your platform to some other.

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Absolutely, true creativity comes with freedom and absence of fear. My point is, if the free market acts in a responsible manner, there would be no distinction to creating music for money and creating music because you want to. It'll be back to the renaissance days.

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I totally agree.

At the moment, I feel like the only people on Steemit are content creators. Which is logical, they would be the ones that are first drawn to the monetary rewards for their work. But it seems we do lack the content consumers.

On reddit for example, I'm more a consumer than a creator. Still, my vote is worth as much everyone else. Here on Steemit, it's quite different.

I understand the fear for bots giving lots of upvotes to their makers. But I would like to see a consumers vote have some kind of influence. Maybe not monetary. Maybe it would just mean that the post would be more visible. But someone who just visits Steemit to consume content and nothing else, is a valuable person. Especially now, when the platform is crawling with creators who are fighting for money, instead of creating the content they already used to make without the monetary rewards.

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That's true, though the statistics prove that engagement and views are rising quickly. So definitely there are more consumers incoming. The cool thing is consumers can be paid too with curation rewards.

This is still a nascent platform. I'm optimistic that the platform will mature over time.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but in order to be paid any significant amount for curation, you'd have to create content first or buy a ton of Steem.
I don't think a consumer wants to be paid. I think he just wants to reward the content that he likes, preferably in a significant way. And right now, it seems to me like a consumers vote is worth almost nothing.

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That's correct, the amount of curation rewards depends on your Steem Power holding. But it also depends on your work ethic, skill and understanding of the rewards system. For example, I make more in curation rewards with 50,000 SP than most whales with 1 million SP. When I was a minnow, I still made pretty decent rewards. The key is to find undiscovered posts and try to get the word out about them. Voting on trending posts is a sure fire way to never succeed at curation rewards.

@liberosist, one of my favorite line is, Men come in a million shades of grey. No two person are same, no two perceptions are similar, of late perhaps since a month there has been tremendous influx of new steemians to the platform. I call them steemians as once they are in, they are steemians already. I am one of the newbie that arrived here and I am totally green behind my ears when it comes to blogging. I never ever blogged in my life. except for a few rants on a page that no body read anyway.
so my introduction was my first attempt into writing some meaningful content and I made a decent intro of myself there.
The word out there is that "STEEMIT PAYS TO WRITE" and everyone thinks 'Hey, that's cool. let me makes some money there'. After a couple of failed or botched up write ups, they become desperate, they fail to understand why no one is upvoting them or following them and they try to influence the curators or the heavy weights here with the standard beg, borrow or steal method.
I feel the newbies need a break, they need some traction in the beginning. once they find some foothold on the platform, they should be concentrating on providing good content. that's how I see it if Iam sympathetic to those who beg for votes.
On my side, my principle is never ask some one to follow me in any of my posts or comments, I never ask anyone to upvote me in any of my posts or comments, I don't comment if I don't have an opinion about the blog or a word of genuine appreciation, simply put, I don't make frivolous comments.
The mantra I am following is try to provide as good a content I can and rest everything will follow eventually. This is a long term game as you put it. so better start with the right step.

You are a very senior & experienced steemian here. Is there any milder way to handle this transgression? just asking.

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People just need to be patient and persistent, engage with the community. You're doing it the right way!

I agree with your sentiment on some of the current trends going on, it feels spammy, like the marketers that will sell you Instagram or Twitter followers, or maybe positive Amazon reviews. I appreciate the respect for "genuine" votes.

However I'd actually like to see a "vote for me and I'll give you stuff" system flourish in a bit different context. Since our votes do have an actual, quantifiable monetary value, I'd love to see a Patreon or KickStarter type application of voting evolve, whereby supporting an artist with votes means they'll give you "backer" rewards like in those systems.
The votes would still be genuine, as voting power is finite, and hopefully voters would only direct them towards things that they genuinely liked and wanted to support.

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That's a great idea - I have discussed this with others before. A developer should definitely seize the opportunity and make a Kickstarter on the Steem blockchain. It's easily doable, as @jesta's ICO-like experiment proves.

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Absolutely. I don't know any developers arms to twist. If I did I'd probably be in jail for assault thanks to all the unwanted twistings, so I guess it's for the best.
Honestly I think some refinements to a simple reporting tool would be enough to get things started. I made a post about SteeMVP which I feel has been forgotten and a system like this.
(Sorry for the post pimp, it's past payout and not meant to hijack, I swear!)

I concur with your philosophy 100%. This isn't a 3rd world market square where everyone is trying to wrangle some sort of deal. Produce content people like after having built up a following by commenting and interacting with others here and eventually people will start noticing your work.

I'm also newbie . Everyday I try to find new ideas to submit my story but I don't receive many upvote. I think that if I don't give up and try my best, in the future many steemian will support me ^^

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You're absolutely right. You just need to be patient and persistent.

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Yes, I will try. Hope that someday you also like my ideas and upvote.

When I first came to Steemit I listened to the advice offered...took the good and tossed out what felt...contrived.

I'm happy with my progress...for now. I spend more time wandering around in my feed than I do creating content...as there is little sense in putting hours into something important to me only to have it sink into the deep.

Making good connections with like minded people is akin to finding patrons.

~may all hatred cease...let there be peace~

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Making good connections with like minded people is akin to finding patrons.

Precisely! Keep at it.

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Thank you for that confirmation.

~be~

Its good to feel that we've been rewarded because of the content that we produced rather than because he is friend of friend. Although we could not hide that friends do help each but somehow good contents should be rewarded accordingly.

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I agree, always feels good to get a vote from someone who has read and enjoyed your comment.

I wasn't aware of people offering items for votes, guess I still have a long way to go before I get that sort of attention. Lastly, mate, I'm Australian, we don't take too many things too seriously. :)

I like this post a lot. Thanks. I do a small randowhale thing to promote new users. I don't make them jump through hoops. I just pick a post or two I like and I want nothing in return. I want to support minnows like myself. Steemit would be much more successful if minnows were doing well, imho

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That's fine, I see your point of view, that's noble.

You could also submit their posts to Curie. You even stand to earn a finder's fee of 15 Steem for every post, while give the minnows hundreds of dollars in rewards. You can find details @curie and joining #curie in steemit.chat.

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I will. This is the first I am hearing about it. Thanks!

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Truth, rando needs some competition lol I think it's the only way a minnow can give a vote that's worth a few bucks.

I agree with all this. The market/community will determine what content "wins" and what content doesn't. My earnings have been all over the place (I've only been here a few weeks) but as long as I focus on putting out valuable content, I should succeed in the long run.

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Right on! Keep at it.

I am only a week old here, but I have noticed in recent days many people PM'ming me in Discord with a link to their article, asking me to upvote and resteem in exchange for the same. It does not create a good feeling within me, I am a bit on the too nice side I suppose and feel a bit guilty for not doing this! But I feel I should be able to freely support what I personally enjoy and find of value. I wish more felt the same, lol

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That's all you should do - vote for posts that you enjoy. And vote generously.

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No one should make you feel guilty about ANYTHING. I have noticed in so many posts I am reading people wanting follows upvotes and resteems... I am training myself to skip over them and continue with the posts about the topic I am reading. You have every right to ignore them and continue enjoying yourself.

I could not agree more with your statement: "This'll never be a fun publishing platform till people are incentivized to create engaging content, rather than make a quick buck."

You're right: it's important to think long term. (I was actually stressing about this today--what should my 'niche' be? Will there be enough creative writers to care about my posts?)

It's so disheartening to work hard on producing quality content and then just have someone comment that they would like you to follow them or spam you with a link to something that isn't relevant...

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Don't be disheartened. The best way is to not expect anything, just write because you love to. It's a free market, and you have to patient and persistent. Keep producing content you believe in, keep engaging with the community, and over the long term you'll definitely get attention if your content is good.

Exactly my thoughts. I value my post like a piece of art, something I've worked hard for and produced out of creativity. I am not really desperate for reesteems or followers, because if they really really see the value of the content, they will just come naturally.

I also comment and upvote posts that deserve it and at the same has some benefits to me.

Unfortunately though, the good quality content just get drowned there easily. The system should do some filtering or maybe a customized view.

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Exactly my thoughts. I value my post like a piece of art, something I've worked hard for and produced out of creativity. I am not really desperate for reesteems or followers, because if they really really see the value of the content, they will just come naturally.

That's indeed the right approach. That's what I meant about the difference between artists and opportunists. I can see you're an artist. An artist values their work while an opportunist goes around hustling for votes.

Unfortunately though, the good quality content just get drowned there easily. The system should do some filtering or maybe a customized view.

You seem to be doing just fine :) It took me a month to attain the level you have in a few days.

You'll be delighted to hear that a Subcommunities feature is releasing soon. It'll work like subreddits in Reddit and should help discoverability immensely. So, you can make a post about travel in the Travel subcommunity and it'll have a far greater chance of being noticed by people who are interested in travel.

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Thanks for the feedback, I have never thought I'm an artist. I just write away. After my friend sees that I'm making some money, he accused this platform as too good to be true. He said, easy money. Doubters gonna doubt.

If he only knew that it's not easy to get those experiences and write about it for like 2-3 hours! It's just right to get rewarded.

I can't wait for that feature!

Agreed, but as an artist I can totally understand that desperation to be noticed. I would never and will never beg or try to bribe someone to vote my stuff. In a free market it IS good to be able to utilize different projects to try and boost the potential of being noticed.

I am a complete novice here, but HAVE put in a lot of hours the last few days taking pictures and been in the process of uploading several years of my art. I am so excited about the platform and believe 100% in it. It can get disheartening thinking nobody sees your stuff, when you see copied content or 0% effort stuff blowing up.

My 1 cent (literally) ;)

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Like someone else said, an experienced and responsible artist will know to value their work and be in it for the long term. They'll know that begging or paying for votes will only diminish their value as an artist.

Don't be disheartened, it took me weeks before anyone noticed me either. Just keep at it, be persistent. If your work is good, and you engage with the community, you'll be noticed. You'll create a niche for yourself.

last week I started discussion about would you take a free stuff? https://steemit.com/chainbb-general/@allfabeta/do-you-love-free-stuff

and as a result steeeans voted for "free cheese are only in a trap"

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Just like I thought, people are well aware of this, but they just can't resist a short term profit themselves.

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and they easy to exchange a short term profit on a moral or physical debt

I am not against people swapping votes, its free market and we are here for votes and rewards, its the name of the game, we of course want great content as well. But for the most part we are here for a reward, if not then we can blog on wordpress or blogger.

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It's more than that. It's a nascent platform, but still bloggers are getting hundreds of views they wouldn't have had on BlogSpot. So see it as a complete platform where you'll get the audience, censorship resistance, and the money is the icing on the cake.

Exactly , some people are trying to make easy money by spamming all over
They are not here for the community
These people just want to make a fast buck & exit ..
Likeminded people need to keep doing their bit to promote the community if we want Steemit to be the future ⚘

"i like people who care about others, without aggressive advertising. Quality of your content should be primary and in ideal world only way to attract people who share your passion. There are cool people on steemit who make sure things worth people's attention are mentioned again and again." This is what i said to guy who tried to threadjack my article with his own irrelevant thing, and he tried to spin it on me, to try to make me feel bad. Im glad that i am not alone. Everybody has fair and square few minutes of everyones attention in "news" feed, plus followers feed. There is no need to stuff links down peoples throat, or make choo-choo trains of emotional blackmail, conditioning people to give social signals. Thank you @liberosist for "content is king" attitude.

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Thank you for telling them off. Keep at it!

I enjoyed your article, and upon reading others comments, found my sentiments and gave my 2¢ there. Having recently exchanged steem to register to a PAL bot and in the testing up voted an article of my own... It felt wrong. A lot of robots are abused to promote oneself where they should be used to send extra kudos for particularly outstanding articles.

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I don't know what a PAL bot is. Please enlighten me? Are you paying for a bot?

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If you enter into minnow support group PAL on Discord, you are directed to register with the bots, @banjo and @minnowsupport, linking your discord to your steemit account using a transfer of .001 steem to each bot. I find the price more then fair, but feel these bots are more often used to upvote selfishly. You can find more info about PAL under #minnowsupport though I assume at a rep of 68 your swimming with bigger fishes now🐬

Wow!
I am very pleased with this article. You address very serious points in a very tactful, reasonable and kind way. There is so much of contemplative importance here, I just really couldn't agree more.
I will follow your posts and contribute what I can.
Best Regards~*~

You do an excellent job as a curator by searching for newer posts. Most only vote for those authors who are very likely to trend.

As for the vote trade, I think that is unhealthy.

But then if someone spends hours on a post but is ignored, it is very discouraging.

So asking for a vote in return of something is very lucrative for the lowly minnow.

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Aside from the joy of digging out good content, I also do it because it earns me 100x more curation rewards than voting on trending authors. :)

If you want money for your content, make sure your content is WORTH money, don't expect free money on this platform, if you're here for that you won't be very successful.

I too have noticed this trend since returning to Steemit of late. Interaction is what is needed. Hard work, dedication, a bit of luck, certainly. But not some attempt at bribery.

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That's indeed the only way that is sustainable long term. I'm glad you've followed that path.

Great read, and lots of good advice.

Resteemed, upvoted, and followed you, as well.

Principled...I like your stand!

I'm with ya on this one.

I am a bit guilty of this give and take thing.. however, it REALLY is hard when you have no one to turn to and you ARE spending hours on content that no one bats an eye to... :/

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You have to be patient. You joined, what, a few days ago? When I first joined, I literally went an entire month with very little votes. I have never asked for a vote - yet I seem to have created a successful niche for myself. Sure, I don't make nearly as much as the top authors, but I'm content with the engagement my posts bring.

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I'll take those words to heart... What do you think of @randowhale??

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I'm actually a fan of the idea and its implementation, but that's precisely what I'd never support.

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I've been here a year. I don't get much,but you know what? I have met some of the greatest people here that I am proud to call friends. I don't even use my facebook cept maybe once a month if that. My so called friends on facebook don't talk to me unless they need help. LOL! I don't even know them anymore. But I am open to everything on Steem it. I have never realized how many beautiful photos people take or instructions on how to make bread, or even explanations of how to use steem it,although,the latter seems to be overused now. Everyone is blogging about how to use steem it. Some of the really good ones should be resteemed and bookmarked on this site,so we don't have 15 people a day trying to explain their version. JMHO

hello friends i am new use of steemit so help. am following u always and u too also vote for me and follow me

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Dude maxxiho-this post was about how not cool it is to ask for votes and follows. And here you are asking the very thing. I don't think you read the post at all. :(

Yeah, it's getting out of control. I cannot even go on steemit.chat anymore without getting blown up and I'm just a small dolphin.

The follow me follow you offers are out of control.

True, if we want the value of Steemit and Steem to grow we have to vote only on content that we like. Otherwise the system will fall if we treat as a get rich quick scheme

Psst if you follow me, I'll follow you.

They come like ninjas. But I must say, I know a few people who've gained success this way.

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That may be a short term success of sorts, but it's in no way sustainable.

great post(not a rant, in my opinion). i feel the same, i have to like the post to upvote/follow.

Yes definitely no more comment like this:
"I have upvoted your post,can you upvote my new post(https://steemit.com/money/@wallsnow/introducing-randowhale-get-whale-power-by-sending-steem-stemm-dollar) also?Thanks "
No more! Its was enough!

Well, glad I wasn't the only one getting these unsolicited messages.

well said, sir!

This was more than a rant, I love the correlation you draw to the arts market!

The annoyance of vote and follow begging aside, I don't understand what these "artists" get out of it. When this is happening it is usually a pure financially driven incentive and the "art" at hand is pretty meaningless.

You see it on all these promotion channels on steemit chat and the PAL discord. People upvote and follow each other without even reading the title of a post.

But then again, even meaningful art needs to find a way to it's audience, and to be visible you need those votes...

It's a struggle for the smaller fish (like me).

I frequently use @randowhale and the @minnowsupport initiative to give my posts that extra boost. This currently also generates a significant part of the "feedback" I get... and that sometimes makes the posts themselves feel meaningless.

Well... in the end it's no-budget marketing or a growth-hack or something. That's what the internet is all about these days isnt it?!

Good content will prevail and quality authors will grow out of it.

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The annoyance of vote and follow begging aside, I don't understand what these "artists" get out of it. When this is happening it is usually a pure financially driven incentive and the "art" at hand is pretty meaningless.

Haha, well said. They get rich though.

I frequently use @randowhale and the @minnowsupport initiative to give my posts that extra boost. This currently also generates a significant part of the "feedback" I get... and that sometimes makes the posts themselves feel meaningless.

Then maybe not use them? You stand to gain much more by building an audience, instead of scrounging for pennies from these initiatives.

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hmm... yeah... I have been contemplating on how I'll continue using these "tools".

and that's how I try to see them... as "tools" allow me to grow some SP and make my posts a bit more visible after release. So I am using these tools as a means to building an audience. It still comes with a foul taste but accept that as a growing pains or something like that.

In the end it wont be a few bucks from automated votes but the real feedback and conversation that will drive me to create more content, or the lack thereof that will make me lose interest.

As rants go, this one is well-reasoned and remarkably low key given your topic. I also suspect there's a bit of a sheep effect in play on the platform at the moment; newbies see others behaving a certain way and think that's an effective way of interacting, perhaps not thinking about how they would feel if a person walked up to them on the street and e.g. offered to trade watches with them. That might not be the best metaphor (I'll work on it and will welcome suggestions for a better one!), but that's how their behaviour makes me feel, on a smaller scale, mostly since my vote is currently with a lot less than my watch 😂. Basic reaction? Nope, and I quickly walk on.

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Newbies are impressionable, excited and easily misled. No one can blame them. I hope posts like these help them get a better grounding of things.

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And that's why I read and resteemed it - hoping others will pick up your gentle, wise words.

totally agree with your conviction. votes should be made as to the value of the content.

I'll be honest, I was one of the ones that joined because i heard you could make money off of posting. Sparked my interest. It's turned into something a whole lot more for me now.

I want to be a curator and not because the money, that will come no matter what but I want to be the person that puts a huge smile on someone else's face the same way I have one on mine after being blessed by a strong curator on something I spent time on.

I've upvoted some posts and seen a decent little spike in the $ and wow what a feeling! I want more of that, I want to be in a position to help a creative mind rise up and be seen by many. The quiet person working hard on their content is who I want to help, not so much the person asking for F4f or upvote for upvote. Quality over quantity.

That is absolutely true fellow, why are they asking for your vote without putting much effort to be creative on their.

Steemit has clique clubs? Oh, my, gawdy lord:)

Ok ok how about this. I vote for you and then... you vote for ME, ok? F4F!!?1`

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Nice try :)

Absolutely, I completely understand where you are coming from. I am new to this, not even on my second week. First I will not beg, or buy votes. Ya, making money doing this is great, but I want to create posts I can be proud of. I want to make something of value, and bring value to steemit in the process. What I have to say in the posts has more value then even steemit can ever pay me. It comes from the heart and that is they way it is going to stay. I will not be corrupted by a potential payout! Thank you so much for this post, I hope every steemian see it!

totally agreed... be pure and keep it that way.

I agree with you, thank you for the post.

People always try to hack/scam the system. But there's no fun in that.

Steemit will have a long life if we keep it informative and useful. People are trying to make it a only earning platform, which is really dangerous to the life of steemit.

Come on!

Take a load off...How about an upvote for 300 steem 😁😉

@liberosist At least some people still have some goddamn integrity and pride in this world. I'm exactly the same dude!

I don't care if i lose out on money or followers, i'm not gonna trade votes or follows or whatever if i normally wouldn't.

Great post! but i am also a minnow .

Newbies need a help but not in negative manner, I think so

How they are doing this "In the last couple of weeks, I notice a curious trend - lots of newbies contacting me privately to vote for their stuff", via steemit.chat?

Just curious... but I agree... it should be open and free... not a contest for bullying or something that impersonates that...

You are so right! I cannot agree more. Many users have very aggressive tactics to get noticed. The only steps they take is to get votes, however do not cast votes. Private message. Comments with upvote requests etc. Initially I engaged them. Than I ignored them. Then I wrote a post myself and provide that URL as an answer. Sometimes I try and create a comment to such users explaining why this and that and what they do is not the right way to go in the long run. Amazing how this is developing. I would have thought many users have respect for others, but it seems like many do not have that. Interestingly, some keep continuing hitting with their URLs even when I told them off. I really hope that this is kind of temporary, but I'm afraid it is not.

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Fortunately, those people are ignored and leave eventually, if the community is wise to it. I'm sure things will mature though - it's still a brand new platform!

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Time will tell :)

Yes I agree with you here a lot of talent, and in posts and in comments.

I agree with you 100%, I have written a similar post highlighting the same concerns. Followership has to be based on what you are bringing on to the platform, rather than begging someone to follow you. The key is to create relevant content and hope for the best.

I totally agree! I was contacted too first day in my arrival on steemit by chat...i didn't like it at all..

Using a "crutch" for me is not an option. I would like people to read my work. Actually open it and read it. If they get that far and they like what I have to offer then make an awards pledge with SBD. If you don't care for my work then skip over or move on. It's important to me that I earn the geniuine respect of my peers in the process, rather than buy my way to a position.

Haha @liberosist, you even rant in polite way

oops wrong post.