If it wasn't done to you, or done by you then you are OWED nothing, and you don't OWE anyone...

in #racism6 years ago (edited)


What am I talking about? It's pretty simple. If it wasn't done to you, or by you in the HERE AND NOW then it is irrelevant. If your ancestors X generations removed included a serial killer. That does not make you who were born generations later guilty of their murders. You don't owe the descendants of those that were killed anything. It was not your crime. It was not something you could have changed. It is irrelevant to you except as a lesson from the past.

That is an extreme example.

Yet I never owned any slaves. I have never been a slave (debateable with governance as it is). I do not OWE anyone anything. In fact, I don't know any slaves unless you count those enslaved by insane legalease like me, or those enslaved by the 13th amendment while in prison since the 13th amendment still allows enslavement in punishment for crime.

Yet the world is full of people who think they are OWED something because their ancestors were slaves. They'll even go so far as to tell you who OWES them and it is usually "white people". Though it is likely unless the white people around them are breaking the law that none of them have ever had or known a slave. They OWE no one anything for past slavery.

The past slavery is a lesson to learn from in history so we don't repeat it. It is not justification for giving people who are not owed it special treatment.

In the U.S. their ancestors don't even have to have actually been slaves to expect this OWED treatment. They simply need to identify as black. Their ancestors could have migrated to the U.S. long after slavery was abolished yet somehow they still will act as though they are OWED special consideration for the color of their skin.

NOTE: This doesn't have to be just with black people. Skin color truly is irrelevant since it is not something any of us get to choose. It is only relevant because people choose to use it as the proof they are OWED due to being a VICTIM whether they are a victim or not.

They miss the fact of the historical lessons. They are simply repeating the cycles that lead to those past atrocities. Believing one skin color was OWED rights that others did not have. This was and is called racism. Guess what? White is a skin color. You don't defeat racism by being racist. So if some jerk of a white person treated you like a racist jerk would you are no better if you turn around and then treat other white people as a racist jerk would because you are angry about what some asshole did to you. Two wrongs don't make a right. You can't defeat racism by being a racist. For racism to end then truly skin color needs to cease to matter. If skin color is promoted in any way that is only fueling racism and the ugly historical cycle continues. That doesn't mean bigots will not still exist and racists. Yet for them to die off we need to quit feeding racism. All you'll do is replace one group of racists with another and racism will persist.

Ask yourself: "Can I stop caring about skin color?"

If you can answer yes, then you are on the path to one day maybe seeing no racism in our society. If you cannot answer yes, then to find a racist you need look no further than yourself.

It goes further than this... the acting privileged and claiming somethings are OWED is a terrible mental sickness that has metastasized and spread all over the place.

Another example is Native Americans. They talk about how they are OWED land because it was stolen. The truth is THEY never possessed that land. It was not theirs during their life. Nothing was stolen from them. From their ancestors, very possibly, yet some of it was given by treaty.

Yet let's go with the stolen land idea. Depending upon how many generations you can go back virtually every inch of land on the planet has changed hands many times. We can all make the stolen land claim.

Yet it is a lie. We never owned it. We tell ourselves the lie and we believe it to be true.

The only people that might be able to make such an argument from a reasonable perspective are people that it happened to directly. If you are alive, have the land, and it is taken some way that is not voluntary from you then you may have an argument. That is the ONLY case where that is true.

La Raza fans. You are owed nothing. So instead of expecting to steal something back that you never owned, work towards building something of your own.

Native Americans. I am as pale skinned as they come. Yet I have a large amount of Chickasaw, and Cherokee ancestry. Enough that I easily could be called a Native American. I might even be able to make a claim of being part of a tribe. If we include my step father who adopted me he was also of Swedish and Choctaw tribe. So while I am WHITE. I am also native American. Yet no one OWEs me for that.

Furthermore, I've seen some native American women attacking someone by saying "I'm from here". Do you understand what truly makes someone a native? It's simple. They were born here. So while we use NATIVE AMERICAN to define the people that were sometimes called Indians even though they were not from India, in reality anyone born here is technically a native American. So when the bigoted female "native american" chooses to say "I am from here" as an attack to someone else who was actually born here, all they are is being a bigot, and acting entitled to something they are not. No one OWEs them anything.

The only people that might be OWED due to treaties being violated are the people who made those treaties. I doubt any of them are alive, but in some few tribes there may be some very elderly people that could still be OWED.

People need to stop identifying as a victim.

They need to build, and create a name for themselves in a positive way other than simply protesting and demanding hand outs for events that did not happen to them.

Build, Dream, Build some more, make mistakes, learn from them, build some more, and make your own story and own history rather than trying to live like a parasite off of events from the past that did not happen to you.

Also... throw the concept of Cultural Appropriation into the trash. Cultures are ideas, and are choices. You can adopt a culture, leave a culture, change a culture, mix and match multiple cultures. Cultures cannot make copyright and intellectual property infringement claims. It is again people thinking they are OWED something when they are not.

Sort:  

I agree completely. This idea of inherited moral debt is ridiculous. Everyone from every culture can find slavery in their family history somewhere, if they look hard enough.

Inherited moral debt? What about inherited trauma? Stolen inheritance and stolen cultural identity promulgated by a "history" begining with slavery?

Now, how can I get this well publicized here.
Change the name to Maori, stick in a lot of land claims getting paid off by the Government, and preferential treatment in all their doings.

I don't know much about how the modern day Maori are treated and what privileges(special treatment) they may have.

Look to history and see who started the slave markets. Inherited trauma? As in my great grand dad died in WW2 fighting for the freedom of people that were not American, as in that kind of inherited moral debt? Stolen Cultural Identity? Like in French Fries should be renamed American fries and and chips so as to not be stealing from the English and their fish and chips should be called thinly sliced potatoes friend in bad oil? Stolen inheritance? My mother and father worked hard all their life to put me through school built themselves a prosperous business while I did nothing so it should all be mine even though I bad mouthed everything my parents stood for inheritance, or i killed my parents set some one else up for the murder just so I would not have to work inheritance? I agree pretty much with everything he pointed out in the article.

Look to history and see who started the slave markets
that would be the Minoans? or further back yet?
slaves have been a feature of ALL human history until technology made them obsolete.

I like to think slavery just has evolved into something else. A lot of the laws which we cannot refuse to follow really are much like slavery. We just have much larger cages. Yet you still must pay taxes which are likely not flat. You still must give your earnings (representation of your time) towards causes you may not support or have any control over.

You and I may resist such things and they will try to fine us, if we refuse that they will attempt to jail us, if we refuse that they will attempt to kill us.

If they manage to jail us then the good ol' 13th amendment kicks in(in the U.S.).

Which does allow slavery and involuntary servitude in punishment for a crime. It is specifically mentioned there in.

You and I have debated prison slavery before and not agreed completely. In fact, it may be the only area that you and I have debated that we disagreed. That's okay. :)

Yet the question is though we are not shackled and forced to do a specific labor each day are we in some ways still enslaved? Is that getting worse?

yup....Ive been arguing that exact point since high school.
No one has been able to refute it...all they can say is "it's much worse in other countries...if you don't like it move there"

Oddly enough a lot of people have been doing exactly that...strange how much it costs now days to renounce american citizen ship. Several tens of thousands of dollars last I heard.

What can we do?

dunno.

The bright point is that the advance of technology is constantly inventing NEW freedoms that last for a while before they are made illegal or taxed.

Pretty soon the government will realize that they can keep up...the it will be
anything not mandated is unlawful

ya think?

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What is inherited trauma? How about stolen inheritance? How about systemic discrimination?

I would like to know if you have done any research in to the subject of racism. What makes you a racist is exactly the fact that you identify yourself as White. The fact that I identify myself as Black means that I am a victim of white supremacy. I am extremely prejudiced against Whites because they've done a whole lot of damage to people who have the same features as I do. Sure, the Blacks call themselves derogatory names like 'ni.... AND KILL EACH OTHER!

These are the symptoms of the vicious disease called White superiority. Instead of investigating the situation and learning more about it and then perhaps coming up with some helpful ideas about defeating racism, the majority of Whites act as if the issue doesn't exist. But yet for some reason, it never fails to rear its ugly head. Just because White folks deny that racism is a problem doesn't mean it is so. The only thing that most Whites know about Blacks is what they see on the Boob tube. They are too afraid and ashamed to dig deep into the issue. By denying and belittling the problem, the problem festers and gets worse. As an American African, I believe that reconciliation and reparations are the keys to healing. If you just read your own post, you have convicted your own self with out even realizing it.

First you say 'Ask yourself: "Can I stop caring about skin color?"

If you can answer yes, then you are on the path to one day maybe seeing no racism in our society. If you cannot answer yes, then to find a racist you need look no further than yourself.'

Just a few lines later you identify your self as white in all capital letters. Right there is the proof of the cognitive dissonance that exists in the white race that was invented by colonial powers of the 17th century as a means of social control when the oppressed African and European came together during Bacon's rebellion


source

to fight the oppression of the feudal lords and kings who ruled those times. As a Black victim descending from the African side of this equation, I believe that truth is the healing salve needed to begin rectifying a situation that many perceive as hopeless. And so I offer to so-called White people three venues of truth.

  1. Dr.Jeffery E. Perry and Mr.Theodore Allen--The Invention of the White Race

  2. Dr. Claude Anderson -- The Harvest Institute

  3. Dr. Joy DeGruy Leary- Be the Healing

Please demonstrate the courage necessary to discover something new instead of relying on the ignorance that keeps us divided in this so-called United States If we are not aware of our history then we are doomed to repeat it. The thirteenth amendment was a means to not only extend slavery to the Blacks, but to also capture the Whites. My Caucasian brothers and sister, we are in the same boat now. The same corrupt capitalist continue to pit us all against each other and we must work together and find the truth necessary to defeat that agenda.

What makes you a racist is exactly the fact that you identify yourself as White.

I identify myself as HUMAN. I have to speak the language of the people I am speaking about. That doesn't make a person racist.

I've seen people ask someone to define racism. They give a dictionary definition and the people start shouting "See you are a racist"

If that is what you are trying to do. Go away and learn some things. If that is not what you are trying to do then hopefully your misunderstanding of my intentions is explained.

I suggest you go reread what I wrote rather than looking for a way to try to flip it on me, as I described exactly this issue there.

I have paler skin than some it is actually kind of splotchy pink. I also have quite a lot of native american heritage.

I identify as ME. Group think is stupid. That was my point.

Also I actually have studied racism quite extensively in my life. I've also seen it in practice. So it does exist. I've also seen how it is like a teeter totter and will simply go up for oneside (or more) and down for another.

IF people like to expect special treatment for skin color, or they like to target/generalize others for skin color. That is racism.

I am against it. I personally don't identify as WHITE or any other color. Though I've certainly been called that, called a cracker, called many other things.

I also don't really give a shit what people identify themselves as.

I have joked for fun of identification by saying if I must identify then I identify as an Albino Black Lesbian Woman. :)

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