ReverseAcid

clayrawlings (62) 5 years ago

Fantstic post. It this a part of game theory?

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reverseacid (56) 5 years ago

Hi @clayrawlings

Thanks for the kind words.

Well, if we look at the bigger picture, everything about blockchain cries out game theory.

But answering to your question, yes. There is quite a lot of game theory involved. You can somewhat compare the map analogy to the prisoner's dilemma. Even though the highest utility is in cooperation, the Nash equilibrium lies in both looking at their own best interests. ZKP allows you to sort of remove the boundaries between the two.

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clayrawlings (62) 5 years ago

The prisoner's dilemma is exactly what I was thinking of. In my world (law) we are forced to make decisions everyday with incomplete, inaccurate, or fraudulent data. Making it a math problem at least gives us a strategy to make the best decision in impossible situations.

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devann (61) 5 years ago (edited)

To solve the problem of successfully verifying a zero-knowledge proof to a validator in a virtual scenario, cryptographic means have to be employed, which use several computational assumptions. Due to the assumptions, it can be perceived that there can never be an absolute solution. Zero-knowledge proofs are considered to be probabilistic rather that deterministic.

Selfkey uses ZKP to perform KYC/AML verifications. A notary verifies and attests your legal and personal documents and the notaries' verification is used for KYC verification without revealing the actual documents like passports or IDs. To me that sounds deterministic rather than probabilistic.

Perhaps, in your forthcoming articles, you could discuss Selfkey as one of your real world use cases. Would appreciate that.

reverseacid (56) 5 years ago (edited)

Hello @devann.

Interesting suggestion you have got there. We were actually unaware of Selfkey and what it is trying to do.

I might be wrong here, but I think you're trying to think of Selfkey as a ZKP mechanism itself, rather than thinking that Selfkey uses an iteration of ZKP on its application.

Let try me to clear that with this small example.

ZCash is a cryptocurrency, with its source code borrowed heavily from bitcoin itself. In order to facilitate transfer of value without the propagation of information, it uses zk-snarks (one of the methods by which ZKP can be calculated).

Thus, when I send you a certain amount, it will 'deterministically' reach your wallet. But the mechanism that ZCash used to send you the amount without revealing any information is 'probabilistic'.

Now change ZCash to Selfkey and value to KYC information and it's still the same.

Hope I was able to help you out in understanding. Do get back if greater clarity is required.

Thanks for the support as always. Cheers.

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chesatochi (72) 5 years ago

Do you have examples of crypto that use this protocol? Pretty cool to share that you own the item without the need to reveal the content.

reverseacid (56) 5 years ago (edited)

Hi @chesatochi.

It's really cool, isn't it? ZKP has opened so many new possibilities to the space.

There are quite a few protocols that use ZKP actually. ZCash is built on the zk-snarks mechanism of ZKP; Ethereum had soft forked it's protocol to include zk-snarks for Smart contracts. The list goes on.

The article following this will answer all your question on the application and use cases of ZKP. Be sure to check that out.

Thanks.

majes.tytyty (78) 5 years ago

While I'm not a mathematician or a cryptographer, I kinda like logic and things that makes sense. So, I found the proof-of-map-ownership quite clever and simple. Looking forward to Part 2.

reverseacid (56) 5 years ago

Hey @majes.tytyty
Thanks for the kind words. To be honest, we don't have any technical background either. That's why we wanted to make sure more people like us are aware of what goes on in the backend. Glad that you found the analogy helpful. It took us hours to get that right.

Part 2 is on its way soon.

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chekohler (70) 5 years ago

I think ZKP is needed in todAsys fast moving society and with blockchain and IOT and it’s trustless environment it’s really going to become more and more popular!

Sadly ZKP just shows the real state humanity is in that we have to think of such a system simply because trust isn’t a given

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guysellars (66) 5 years ago

Great explanation of a complex topic. Thank you for your hard work.

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reverseacid (56) 5 years ago

Hello @guysellars.

Thanks for the appreciation. Glad you found it helpful. Cheers.

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jadams2k18 (64) 5 years ago

Hi, again, @reverseacid!

I love the way you explain this protocol. I knew it a little bit, lightly, when I checked the ZCash. This protocol has many applications and I will be happy to see your next post about these.

It establishes a tacit way to assure and prove the existence of something, without needing to know it. Awesome, isn't it?

Great post!

a-non-e-moose (49) 5 years ago

Nice posts @reverseacid! I like the treasure hunt map and key analogy.

Unfortunately for me, it happens to be basically a rehash of what I already know about ZPK.

Can't wait for part two!

nurseanne84 (62) 5 years ago

Dear @reverseacid

you know, you would have explained the whole thing with the 2 guys with a map and key concept because, the meaning really sinks in that way.

I think that if you're going to analyzed everything, it all comes down to this: MUTUAL TRUST

lanzjoseg (74) 5 years ago

Dear @reverseacid

When I came to this paragraph I felt in: "The MATRIX"

"In cryptography, a zero knowledge test or a zero knowledge protocol is a method by which a party (the promoter) can demonstrate to the other party (the verifier) that he knows a value x, without transmitting any information other than the fact that they know the value x. The essence of the zero knowledge tests is that it is trivial to prove that one possesses knowledge of certain information simply by revealing it; the challenge is to prove that possession without revealing the information itself or any additional information. "

It sounds very easy to reach this type of conclusion using mathematics to determine the knowledge,

However, as they say there, the end justifies the means.

I think the end was the true treasure .. So the three options are on the table, but one is that it could be applied, so two people together trying to achieve something I think they would reach an agreement.