Birkini Ban - How can a supposedly free country tell women they must wear less?
Just a short post about a BBC news story that I heard yesterday. The very hot weather has been encouraging people to go to the beaches around northern Europe. Apparently there is a ban on the wearing of burkinis in France - the more modest form of beach-ware designed for Muslim women.
Police appear to issue a fine to the woman, who is then seen removing a veil and baring her arms.
Nice's deputy mayor said the removal of burkinis was a "necessity" after the deadly jihadist attack last month.
No matter what you think of the actual burkini concept itself or what your opinions of modesty - should the government via the police be able to control how much clothing women wear?
Should police be able to force a woman to actually "remove" clothing and show more flesh?
How is this consistent with a free country?
This kind of thing makes me deeply uncomfortable - don't get me wrong: -
I don't think women should ever be forced to cover up but similarly I don't believe they should be forced to reveal more flesh than they want to.
Everyday governments seem to be removing more and more of our rights under the justification of preventing "terrorism" - where will it end?
When do we say it is too much?
This kind of over-reaching government behaviour basically tells us that the terrorists have won.
They have already deprived us of our liberty.
2016 : Police making a woman take off her clothing at the beach because she’s wearing too much.
1922: Police measuring a woman’s clothing because she’s wearing too little.
Great comparison. It shows the idiocy of this sort of thing.
This is just beyond belief. I'm speechless.
Being asked to cover up is understandable. Yes, it is innapropriate when your ass hangs out at the office. But to tell someone that they need to strip and then basically pointing a gun at their head if they don't is akin to some really really creepy rape fantasy.
Yes it is definitely creepy.
@thecryptofiend
I bet that string buried between the buttocks is as uncomfortable as the burkini
I think they designed the burkini so that it was thin and a lot more comfortable than a wetsuit.
In Australia, where skin cancer rates are through the roof because of the hole in the ozone layer above them, lots of non-muslims are wearing them as sun protection. Of course the burkini was invented by an Aussie in 2004, it has nothing to do with Arabia at all. More like helping muslims adapt to the aussie culture of swimming.
Cool. I also never thought about the skin protection. I also wonder if wetsuits are now banned in France?
Dunno. Lots of men swim with T-shirts on to hide their man boobs. People have body issue problems, and I'm sure that is the real reason so many of those ladies wear burkinis - the religion is really being used as an excuse not to display cellulite, while their non-muslim counterparts buy various creams designed to solve the problem and then self-conscious wear sarongs etc to hide it on the beach.
I've seen that trick being used!
@aenor, it's the same thing in the Philippines, many Filipinas want to have a lighter skin so they wear jogging pants , shirt or a long sleeved top to swim cause it's too expensive to get bleached just to be sun burnt again . A lot of actresses do this there . It's a normal thing there.
That's sad though. You see that in India and Pakistan too. People want lighter skin. In the West people want a tan and risk skin cancer to get it. Nobody wants what they have.
@thecryptofiend true sad - like what some anonymous guy's poem "man is a fool - when it's hot they want it cold and when it's cold they want it hot - always wanting what is not ." there's a reason behind that - Asians and some other people associate being dark to being poor. Some Orientals who have yellow skin wear sunblock and definitely don't want themselves to get dark skin when out in the sun. I got a dark skin - they call me morena or tan - in my experience - it has always worked for my favor. I love it and not planning to get poisened by getting bleached.
@englishtchrivy Well said!
Lol yes:)
Yeah, so much for a free society.
I'm not Muslim, and I don't understand the need to have women wearing burkhas and hijabs and other coverings. At the same time, it's a violation of someone's right to privacy and freedom of religion to police religious garb like this. Using "fighting terrorism" as an excuse is particularly egregious. Also, it's just one more way that institutionalized powers are exercising control over women and their appearance.
Exactly.
so, in fact, France now has religious police keeping the women in line
Lol. I didn't think of it that way.
Wow, I had no idea this was happening. It's unfortunate, to say the least.
Thank you for your willingess to highlight this policy and start a dialogue!
Thank you:)
Believe it or not, terrorist attacks are false flag operations to initial wars, to deprive rights without people confronting it and to, it's ultimate goal, govern human being.
Not sure that they are false flags but governments due use them opportunistically to take away people's rights. I'm more afraid of governments than terrorism.
I saw this news story too and thought it was very sad. It feels like although the terrorists are no match for the military might of the free world, they are slowly winning the propaganda war. When governments crack down on the very freedoms they purport to protect, it only keeps the hatred and unrest going, and we will never know peace. Tolerance and understanding is what's needed, not misguided actions that only spur more bigotry.
So true. This not only restricts freedom but also causes divisions between people.
You cannot just ban burkinis and at the same time not ban wearing of wigs by Jew women or turbans by Sikhs. And what if some woman wears burkini not because of Muslim tradition but because she's just an eccentric artist doing some social experiment?
It's impossible to combat clothing! It is a radical Islam that is have to be banned, then there will emerge the legal grounds to ban its attributes.
I agree you can't ban clothing.
This is where we disagree. You can't ban peoples beliefs. The best way to combat it is to educate people. Attempting to ban them will only make them more entrenched.
You have to ban beliefs of those who ready to oppress and to kill. That's an emergency case, not the matter of education.
You can't ban what people actually believe in their mind. You have to change their minds.
The state should not be involved in anything. If someone wants to wear this to the beach then they wear it. simple.
Agreed it is pretty ridiculous.
Yeah but history has taught us time and time again that fighting oppression with more oppression always leads to a happy fulfilled society here we all ride unicorns and fart rose scented glitter.
Lol.