On Prostitution
You know I often find a lot of cognitive dissonance in the left when it comes to prostitution. This is not even from religious groups, who are obviously anti-prostitution, but it comes from supposedly pro-choice left.
My position as always, is the liberty position, consenting adults should have the freedom to do whatever they want in bed. And this includes gay and transgender couples, or even an orgy between multiple people, I don't care. If they want to do it for money, fine by me. So people should have the freedom to do whatever they want with their body, even for money or for other rewards.
The problem is that I have seen recently many feminist groups that are against prostitution, because they find it very humiliating for women. In fact these are the groups that are also against porn, strip-dancing, and whatnot.
And this is the obvious problem, because these people are supposedly supporting the LGBT, and LGBT marriages, which obviously means that they acknowledge that consenting adults should have the rights over their body.
But for some reason they deny this when money is involved? WTF? This is insane. Either you accept the principle that people are free to do anything with consent, or you are a fascist and want to control people's body (no drugs, no tobacco, no alcohol, no sex, forced vaccination, no gay marriage, etc...)
So it literally comes down to this, either you accept people having a right over their body or not. Abortion is a little bit trickier because murder is involved there, and the abortion process is very sadistic and Nazi-eugenics-like if you actually study it, but that is another topic. But other than that, those other activities are only your responsibility, and should be nobody else's.
Okay so we have identified the cognitive dissonance here, you can't be for choice and then not be when it's against your personal preferences.
Secondly how the hell is getting paid by sexual services is degrading women? Or for that matter men, or gay or other kind of sexual workers?
Because we only hear that female prostitution is a shameful job, for for some reason male escort and stripping is not? How is that possible?
So if a women strips for 200$ that is shameful, but if a guy does it then it's hot? I can't follow, because these people are idiots, they are full of contradictions in their head.
Thirdly how can you be degraded if you are getting paid for it? I have literally heard of stories of teen girls who had been with like 50 guys, for free. Even in my time when I was a teen I knew girls who were very promiscuous and slept with anyone for just a bottle of beer.
So here you have a generation of sluts who just fuck anyone for free, versus a professional sex worker that at least earns 2000-5000$ / month for it.
Which one is more degrading, sleeping with people for free? Or actually getting paid for it? I mean if you get paid for it, then you can just raise your fee based on how good service you can offer.
If you are a very high quality sex worker, then you can just charge like 1000-2000$/ event, so 50,000$ or more can easily be earned monthly. How is that degrading?
I mean you have waitresses, restaurant girls, baristas, whatever that literally have to fuck their bosses just to get a shitty 100$ salary.
At least if you are an independent sex worker, you don't need a pimp or webcam girls can just do it online, and a lot more money can be earned instead of having to fuck just to keep a job.
So which one is more degrading, earning 50,000$/month as a luxury escort woman or earning 50$/month as a sweatshop slave?
So women can be more independent by being sex workers, it's still a choice, nobody forces them to be, but it's a choice. I thought feminism was about empowering women, not dictating to them what they can and can't do with their bodies?
So I think prostitution has to be legalized at some point. If you don't like it, just don't solicit it, but you can't impose your moral rules on other's, that is fascism.
Sources:
https://pixabay.com
It really is a simple dichotomy, either you want to control the non-violent behavior of other people or you don't. Unfortunately, many third wave feminists really do want to control the behavior of other people.
Exactly, but we have to make an exception for abortion though, since that is about murder. We have to define how old a fetus is considered a human. Some say 2-3 weeks old, but we have people pushing for late term abortion, like 1 week before birth, so that is murder in my book.
Also abortion is very ugly and disgusting, if you study it carefully it resembles Nazi eugenics.
So I am Pro-Choice, except for late or mid term abortion.
Agreed, abortion involves a third person. That person's rights have to be respected.
I fully agree with you. Prostitution is a trade and in a free environment both sides of the trade are happy. Even if the prostitute is in a finically bad situation, the money she earns this way is probably giving her more comfort by solving problems in her life than she looses comfort by having sex, otherwise she shouldn't do it. I also fully agree that telling adult people what to do with their body is fascism. Ofcourse I am not talking about forced prostitution, but in that case the fact that it is forced is the crime and not the prostitution itself.
It's funny how feminists complain about prostitution, where women are actually empowered and can earn 10,000$/ month, meanwhile many women work in sweatshops are basic serfs for 100$ salary. So which one is the real problem?
This is a serious and urgent issue, if the legalization of prostitution, may cause a lot of women were forced to disappear; if not legitimate, there will be many black market transactions, how do you think of this problem?
Why would they disappear? You mean abductions? Why would that happen? There is actually a lot more of that risk happening with human traficking and pimping exactly because it's illegal, so women have to find a shady pimp who might abuse or sell them.
If it were legalized , then they could do the business independently , without a pimp, so the risks would greatly diminish, not to mention regular screenings so STD risk would be lowered too.
Prohibition creates violence, not the other way around. Look at the US alcohol prohibition era, and the current drug war. It speaks for itself.
Indeed, I agree with you that part of the argument that prostitution is legalized in some countries may reduce risk.
But first, prostitution can not be legalized in some other countries in the world, so the prerequisites you have said are no longer right. Second, if the legalization of prostitution, will lead people into the industry, causing more risk of disease transmission. Finally, even if the prostitute on a regular physical examination, when she knew that after a lot of people may have been infected with the disease, because the industry is large, spread a wide range, will cause great losses. The spread of a new disease in the extreme time is not easy to find a cure method, which is the risk of legalization of prostitution.
Finally, the legalization of prostitution can lead to a lot of kidnapping, trafficking and the like, many people in order to profiteering or other causes of crime, society will become increasingly chaotic.
I live in a country where prostitution is legal and widespread. The STD rates are still slightly lower than the United States. With exception to HPV or herpes, Condoms have been very efficient at preventing the spread of STDs.
So,this is only your opinion,but not a theory,right?
The truth is that STD's have been heavily overhyped lately. The truth is that there were brothels 5000 years ago, and humans are still here. If STD's would have been such a big threat then humanity would have been wiped out a long time ago.
Remember condoms only exist for about 200-300 years, they used pig's esophagus before that. So for about 4700 years humans for some reason had no problems with STD's, even when many other plagues were rampant, which had no connection to STD.
It makes you wonder whether it's just overhyped so that people would not make kids to lower the population.
I am not saying that we should ignore STD's but certainly it's not that scary as it sounds. I have never had any STD's, and I had a few partners. So I don't know how it can be more spread than this, when you already have a very promiscuous culture? It can't get any worse than this.
I still don't know how you came to that conclusion. In every single case, it had the opposite effect.
The alcohol prohibition was a great example of this. There are no more bootlegger mobsters, people just have their own whiskey factory now.
Here in Nevada in most counties prostitution is legal. In fact My mother worked in one of the brothels here in Nye County as the "Madame" It takes a certain mentality to be a "Poho" This is what they prefer to be referred as. Some earn enough to go to college and some it is a career. It is nothing but another industry out here really similar to say the 7 eleven.
because these people are idiots
you got it one..
they are stoopid..and you can't fix stoopid
but you can bypass it.
full immersion, full sensory, virtual reality is coming...real soon now.
I'd rather skip that. Besides what would stop the government to just extend their bullshit laws into VR world?
I think tyranny has to be stopped here, in the real world, before it spreads into every single dimension.
good luck with that.
how well have they managed to control porn?
Well they have already imposed many nonsense regulations on porn actors and the industry in general, not the feminists but the government just in general, I am not sure to whom's influence.
I think they started heavily regulating cam-girls, and they are coming after regular porn actors too with big taxes.
a way around the laws will be found...or they will just be ignored..
I happen to agree with you..that's what I would LIKE to happen.
BUT..
it'll be a cold day in hell before it does.
I think there was a country in Europe I don't remember which one that recently legalized prostitution, but they slapped huge taxes on it. So the poor women now earn even less than if they had to pay tribute to a pimp.
Plus very likely it will still be the pimp that who will run them, it's just that he will be running it via a legal company.
So what happened is basically that the government legalized pimping so the pimps just made their legal company, paying not that high taxes, and definitely the risk of jail went away. But they put huge taxes on the girls, so now they earn even less, and they can't do it illegally anymore since no pimp will risk that.
So basically they totally fucked the girls, no pun, while helping pimps earn money easily.
It should have been the other way around. But this is another problem of "legalization" because when you start throwing taxes around, it might be even worse than being illegal.
So when you hear about "drug legalization" it might have actually worse economic effects than being illegal.
After all 1/3 of all economic activity on the globe is the black market. As they say the black market is the only free market.
It's the black market that got Europe out of the 2009 recession, and destroying the black market actually would destroy the entire economy.
i heard that the 'black market' was the ONLY market in the former soviet onion after the wall came down for a while...the former crooks were in charge..
(shrug)
Well yes, obviously , in communism everything was illegal, and they put people in GULAGS for very little.
So people just thought "fuck this, I'm going rogue", after all they had nothing to lose.
So they achieved freedom through disobedience, an act that should not be forgotten, because the thirst for freedom can bring down a tyranny.
But regardless I think one of these banks, I think the IMF, I am not sure, estimates that about 1/3 of the global economy is literally black market.
And in fact we know that this market is only growing which brough out Europe from recession.
It's funny how nobody likes laws and regulations, but somehow we still have them? And the bureaucrats are clamping down on the most vibrant sector of the economy.
Most of this is not even violent, just smugglers and illegal workers, there is nothing immoral in that.
In some countries taxes are just so high that I have heard that 30% of the workforce works illegally.
feminists would hate the world they would create
That is what happens when they ignore philosophy and rational reasoning in favor of imposing their own worldview on others.
The left is not about freedom. It's just a political lie. In fact the right is not about freedom either. If people had real freedom and everyone were accountable for their own behavior, people would figure out there is no need for a left or right.
Tyranny can come from any side and can wear any kind of cloth. The left right paradigm is fake in the current political climate and it's not important. What is important is the authoritarian vs libertarian debate, that is the real issue.
Then we should stop making assumptions that the left should be okay with prostitution as they are supposedly for the lgbt community, pro choice, or whatever. So it shouldn't come as a surprise when one group, who has taken the mantle as being for something really isn't. Neither party are actually for anyone but themselves - period.
Wherever they see somebody earning money they believe somebody is being exploited. Profit is always bad.
Funny position for a moral subjectivist, but who am I to judge?
I am a moral subjectivist, moral subjectivism means that everyone views their own views, but they respects everyone elses view of the world. It is individualism basically.
What you are describing is fascism, collectivism, you name it. When they want to impose their view on the world, with coercion.
It's one thing to observe your own desires, and it's another thing to impose them.
That's true. They're not just hypocritical to claim that profit is objectively immoral, they're also wrong.
Profit can't be immoral, because the entire human existence is based on it. Like we are profiting from the sun, literally, without that there would be no humans.
So trading, exchanging items or ideas can't be immoral due to this very simple fact.
Even if something immoral is traded, it's never the trade itself that is immoral, but the cause or effect of it.
Like if some gun is sold that will be later used in a homicide, it's not the gun's fault, and neither the trade's fault. It's solely the fault of the murderer how he uses it.
I see you prax. Have you seen praxgirl on YouTube?
I've probably sat through that series 3 times.
The whole thing about female prostitution being degrading in my opinion has a lot to do with old fashioned Christian morality. Accordion to it prostitution is degrading for a woman just because she is selling 'herself' to random strangers without gods blessing. She should sell herself to only one guy with gods blessing in order to have kids. Doesn't matter if she likes it or nor. Anything else is a sin and therefore it is degrading.
Many folks who grew up in non religious families are convinced that this morality has no influence over them. They often do not notice how it affects them through the larger culture and therefore they do not question it. That's how we get cognitive dissonance in so many people preaching 'freedom'.
Of course such morality condemns promiscuous behaviour in general. The fact that some feminists are all for women having sex before or outside marriage but against prostitution to me is another example of how this Christian and patriarchal morality creeps in through a back door. Women should not have power and taking money for sex gives them exactly that. It's ok for guys to do it because its ok for them to have power.
It had it's benefits in the middle ages when disease was widespread, certainly promiscuity has increased the risk of death in the middle ages.
But with modern medicine and sanitation this is not an issue anymore, furthermore prostitution pretty much always existed it can be traced as back as 10,000 BC where they found brothels made of stone.
There is no shame in a profession that is 10,000 years old.
Absolutely! Apparently penguins and , if I remember correctly, chimps have sex in exchange for material goods so if we extend this to other living creatures the profession might be older than humanity. :)
It certainly is, any living being will do anything to just gather resources, some beings do that through their body.
That's very true.
Actually, thinking about it, we all do it through our bodies. :D It's just that if our work is in the mental sphere we forget that we need our bodies to do it. We think that our minds are somehow not a part of our physicality, even though science seems to prove otherwise.
This has a lot to do with education, class and how we, as a culture, devalue manual labour, especially the 'feminine' professions. I know that prostitution is not exclusive to women. Sex workers I know are male, female and trans, but culturally it still seems to be framed as a 'female' job. These kinds of jobs are usually considered 'low skill' because 'anyone can do them'. I find this ridiculous for two reasons.
Firstly, there are plenty people out there who are perfectly capable of mental work but can not cope with physical work or has to do it at the expense of their own health and well being.
Secondly, certainly when it comes to sex work, there are people with high level of experience who put a lot of effort into their work, constantly improving and expanding their skillet and knowledge. It takes practice to be really good at it.
you're seriously delusional if you think the average whore earns that much money. Do some research most are street whores, craigslist & massage parlors whores- are actually abused & Sex Traffic Slaves. The average screw is like $50.
Im not here to argue with you- I'm am 100% correct on the above though.
The Femminist Movement was taken over by the CIA. Gloria Steinem- has admitted to being on the CIA Payroll. The Feminist Movement is George Orwell Double Speak. It's not for the benefit of women. It's for the DESTRUCTION of the Family Unit- So that the TOTALITARIAN GOVERNMENT- can control sick & mentally deranged slaves.
So hunt down sex slave rings and legalize self-employed prostitution. Wouldn't that be a more reasonable than banning every form of prostitution?